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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 11 Jul 1956

Vol. 159 No. 5

Committee on Finance. - Vote 58—External Affairs (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:—
That a sum not exceeding £286,290 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1957, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for External Affairs and of certain services administered by that Office (No. 16 of 1924) including a Grant-in-Aid.

I have stressed the vital importance to us as a small nation, in common with all other small nations, of the maintenance of world peace and I have emphasised my conviction that it is our duty to do what lies in our power to promote the acceptance of Christian principles in international relations. I would like, with your permission, to quote just a few sentences from a speech that I made to the National Press Club at Washington where my views are summarised. I stated there certain principles and wish to quote them to the Dáil as my own here to-day:—

"The object of Irish foreign policy is to use such influence as we possess to promote the spirit of justice, Christian charity and goodwill on which the hope of peace must ultimately depend. Within the broad scope of that purpose we seek in common with all other small nations our own survival, the welfare of our people and the preservation of peace and of the rule of law in international relations. We have our own special object of policy in full harmony with our general purpose of promoting justice in international affairs, namely, the restoration of the territorial unity of Ireland.

The next cardinal point of our policy is our opposition to atheistic Communism. Communism, in our view, is a creed which confronts the established order of society with the most uncompromising challenge in our history and one to which we are implacably opposed."

The maintenance of world peace, the establishment of the rule of law and Christian principles in international affairs and opposition to Communism, summarise the cardinal points of our policy so far. We have, I think I am entitled to say, no quarrel with Russia or with the Russian people as such. What we do object to is the policy of atheistic Communism and, particularly, the consequences of the steadfast adherence to a policy of disseminating that policy throughout the world. That is so important that it is our duty, in my view at all events, in fulfilling our function in world affairs, to see that the forces making for its disintegration are in no way weakened. The primary consideration for us must be to see that the forces of atheistic Communism are repelled and that we do not allow ourselves to become tools to serve Communist imperialistic interests no matter how carefully they may be camouflaged.

When I spoke, as I did speak on any occasion when I addressed any assembly in the States in respect of Partition, I made it quite clear that the removal of Partition would strengthen the West and strengthen the forces against disintegration. On a subject of this kind the subject of the Partition of Ireland inevitably must be dealt with, at least to some short extent. I have been accused of making statements in America which were contradictory of some of the statements I made elsewhere but I think that I kept, in all the speeches I made, to a consistent line. I spoke at the Georgetown University and referred to our position there. I spoke to the members of the National Press Club at Washington and dealt with the subject of Partition. I said there, and I repeat here, that while our objective to survive as a nation is paramount and that while world peace is, for Ireland, a paramount national necessity, Ireland can never pursue adventurous policies and the risk of war which would therefore hazard the nation's survival.

I emphasised everywhere that our special object of national policy is the abolition of Partition and the establishment of full national unity for the whole of our island territory; that we could not, because of our preoccupation with that problem, enter into any military alliances however some friendly nations might urge us to join such alliances and that no Government in this country could contemplate any such alliance while Partition existed.

Those principles were accepted with understanding and sympathy everywhere I went. I did say, and said most deliberately, in the course of a reply that I made to a question put to me by one of the United Nations Press correspondents at a lunch that they gave to me in New York, that while Ireland would raise, at an appropriate time and on the proper occasion at the United Nations, the question of Partition, that would not mean that Ireland would be a sore thumb in the United Nations on the subject of Partition. Anybody who has had experience of international affairs and of attendance at international organisations must have seen how particular countries and particular individuals who are constantly putting forward their own interests and their own particular grievances to the exclusion of all other interests lost all influence and came to be regarded as nothing but a mere nuisance.

We have, unfortunately, due to the fact that we have been kept out of the United Nations for nine years, lost the valuable experience that we would have gained in that time of the mechanism of the diplomacy of that organisation. Again, anybody who has been at international gatherings knows of the behind-the-scenes activities, the conferences and subterranean agreements and the back-door conferences which take place. We have not been able to test the feelings and assess the manner in which diplomacy is carried on in the United Nations behind the facade of the Assembly. It will be the task of our representative to find all that out and that is why, as I said yesterday, it is so important and necessary for this country to ensure that we have friends. Partition cannot be solved without the help of friends and friends cannot be obtained if we pursue an entirely selfish course.

It is a question of timing, a question of discretion, a question of making friends, a question of doing good turns for other nations so that they will do good turns for us. That is a common form of activity. Trade is obtained through international contacts and friendship, through representatives of one nation doing good turns for another, and, in return, seeking help which that nation can give. It is along those general lines that we should operate on the problem of Partition. I am convinced that it is along those lines we will secure results. The official policy of the American State Department is that America will not interfere between us and Great Britain on the question of Partition. I believe that if we play our part and secure a standing influence in the kind of part that we play in the U.N.O. we can secure friends, powerful friends, who, without any formal démarche, will help us in the struggle to end Partition. I believe that it is in this respect that our membership of U.N.O. can be best used to secure the ending of Partition.

I believe that if we play our cards well, as I believe we shall, and if we seek the influence which can be secured by independent action based on some of the principles enunciated during the course of this debate, then we will secure powerful help, not merely from the Irish in America but from Americans not of Irish birth or descent. There is a lot of goodwill, an invaluable measure of goodwill, towards this country among all sections in the United States. All those sections of people are looking to us now with eagerness to see how we will perform and see how we will achieve results.

It is for that reason that I said yesterday that our acceptance of membership of the United Nations imposed on us grave duties and high responsibilities I do not think that they are going to involve us in war or in intervention in any part of the world with whatever armed forces we may have, but our responsibility is to do our duty as a Catholic Christian country, to act justly, and with the kind of independence that I described yesterday, making friends for ourselves, securing respect for ourselves and ensuring that we have an influence which will count in international affairs. This country has made an impact on practically every part of the world. We have our relations and kith and kin all over the world. I believe that all those people, and particularly Irish-Americans in the United States, are looking to us to do something which will increase their prestige and their pride in their own Motherland. I hope we will be able to fulfil that expectation.

There is another matter that, I think, I should refer to in passing. Certain suggestions, if not criticisms, were made as to the amount of expenditure on the Department of External Affairs. I should like to pay tribute to our representatives abroad and to our officers in the Department of External Affairs. I think their credit and reputation abroad stand high and that everywhere they go they do honour to themselves and to their country. So far from these people being overpaid they are in my very serious view underpaid. They are, in fact, struggling most of their lives with the almost impossible task of making ends meet.

Suggestions were made that we were expanding too much. I think Deputy MacBride answered that yesterday. So far from expanding we have fine-combed the Estimate for this Department. I think every penny that is spent is necessary expenditure. We have tried to cut out anything unnecessary. We have had to stave off demands that have been made upon us for further representation. I will mention only one type.

I have been pressed very frequently, indeed, by lay people and by bishops, priests and ecclesiastics of all kinds to have some sort of representation in the East. We have our missionaries abroad in Africa and in the East and there is nobody to look after their intersts except possibly when we have a representative in Australia and the distance from Australia to the East is very vast indeed. I have been pressed very strongly by people in South Africa because of the situation in which Catholic and Christian schools are there at the present time for some representatives of this country to whom people of Irish descent and Catholics can look. It should be a cardinal point of our policy to the extent we can secure it to look after our people and missionaries in the East but it will not be a very easy task.

Some Deputies appear to be under the delusion that we ought to go to U.N.O. and, as I think the phrase was, not bother ourselves with other nations' problems but deal only with our own. What an absurd position we would be in were we to go into U.N.O., talk about Partition and nothing else and walk out when there was any other problem affecting world peace and the interests of the various other nations where justice required consideration and give an example of an entirely selfish policy. I think that would bring down upon us criticism— just criticism—and make the big expenditure relevant to our resources that we are making on the United Nations entirely futile.

I should like, just before I conclude, to express and put upon record my appreciation and sincere gratitude to the President of the United States of America, to the American Government and to official America for the extraordinary welcome they gave to me as head of an Irish Government. I quite appreciate, to use the expression I used at one meeting in America, that I went to America officially as the unimportant representative of a very important country, and it was to this very important small country that the President of the greatest nation in the world at the present time, the most powerful nation, the nation that is carrying the greatest weight of international responsibility, paid such tribute and respect.

To the people of the United States whom I met in the course of my journey I should like also to record my thanks—official America and unofficial America. Native Americans, if I may use that expression, Irish-born Americans and Americans of Irish descent, all vied with each other to do honour to this small nation. In the tribute I wish to pay here and put on record, I should like especially to record my appreciation—I hope I will be entitled to say that I do so with the consent of this House and the people of Ireland— in regard to the University of Yale which is Puritan in its origin. It honoured this Catholic country by inviting me, in my capacity as head of the Government for the time being, to take part in the deliberations of the student body and to meet the professors, fellows and lecturers of the Law School and of the Timothy Dwight College. From the President of Yale and the fellows and lecturers of Yale I received nothing but the utmost friendship, cordiality and hospitality. To meet the students of Yale was a perfect joy. They were interested in nothing but in Ireland. They wanted to talk about nothing but Irish affairs and learn about Ireland and Irish affairs. Very few, if any, of those I met had any Irish origin.

I think it is also proper and incumbent upon me to pay the highest tribute in my power to Mr. and Mrs. Wilmarth Lewis who from their own funds put at my disposal a scholarship to be granted to an Irish citizen to visit Yale for post-graduate studies in any course I select. That was a gesture of great friendship from a distinguished scholar and a very well-known personality not merely in Yale but in the United States. I think it is right and proper that we should record our thanks for that generous gesture. It was a gesture which in itself was substantial not only from the point of view of money and value but from the point of view of its friendliness towards this country and its interest in this country which was beyond measure.

I want once again to emphasise, as I did at the start, that Ireland has a great opportunity. I think we will grasp that opportunity. Certainly whatever Government may be in power from time to time will do the best it can to see that our duties and obligations are carried out in the United Nations. If we do that, we will enhance our own prestige here and we will, I believe, secure friends who will help us in a very powerful way to solve Partition. We will also ensure that the respect which foreigners have for us and particularly the respect which America has for us will enable them to have such an esteem for us that they will be inclined to trade more with us and invest more money with us, to put it at its lowest possible level. If we rise, as I believe we will rise, to the opportunity, I think Ireland will become a very vital factor for good in world affairs in time to come.

The Taoiseach did not mention the name of the Deputy who was supposed to have said that in taking part in the deliberations of U.N.O. we should confine ourselves entirely to the issue of Partition and take no interest in the problems of other nations. I do not know who is supposed to have made that statement but, perhaps, from Deputy Declan Costello's speech, one would gather that the statement is attributed to Deputy Aiken.

No, no. The actual thing I had in mind is at column 220, Volume 159 of the Official Report where Deputy McQuillan rather seemed to criticise me for saying we would not make a nuisance of ourselves in U.N.O. Then he said we should not go to U.N.O. for the sake of listening to other nations protesting about their problems, having first said that we should lose no opportunity to speak about Partition.

I am thankful to the Taoiseach. I am glad I raised the matter, and I did so because Deputy Declan Costello, when he spoke a few days ago, criticised Deputy Aiken because of what he alleged to be the attitude taken by Deputy Aiken—that we should regard the attitude of countries to Partition as the yardstick by which we would measure them. I read Deputy Aiken's statement and I found nothing to justify Deputy Declan Costello's criticism and nothing to justify his view that Deputy Aiken's remarks could be interpreted in that way.

I think—although I do not like to say it—that there were portions of the Minister's opening speech which were silly and pretentious. Whether it was the desire to get headlines in the newspapers or not I do not know, but his statement that his Department at all times is keeping a detailed survey of events in Russia and the Middle East and Africa is just silly and, as I said, pretentious. I imagine it is not true. I imagine that the Department of External Affairs does not concern itself at all times and in detail with the things that are happening in the countries and areas mentioned. I think I would recommend instead the attitude of Deputy Boland who, in a short clear speech, pointed out that he would like our representatives in the Council of Europe to use their influence in an attempt to make the bigger Powers understand that great changes have taken place in Africa and in the Middle East, that the people in these areas have realised their right to self-determination and are determined that they will have their freedom, and that our representatives should use all their power in the Council of Europe and, indeed, elsewhere to get these big Powers to realise for their own sake that time has marched on.

That is a sensible point of view. It is a fact that these changes have taken place; it is a fact that the people have the right to determine their own future; it is a fact that the Cypriots are now in the process of finding their freedom. They will get their freedom and the British will not stop them getting it, but, in the meantime, the British should cease playing into the hands of Communism and the Communists and do something practical towards ensuring the peace of Europe by giving the Cypriots what they will have to give them in the end anyway.

Deputy Barry and others here expressed themselves as not being clear on the situation, but I do not see that anything could be clearer. I do not think we should waste our time talking about ideals and religion in a matter which is as clear cut as this. As I say, we do not have to waste the time of our Department keeping a detailed survey of events in the Arab and other worlds when the situation is just as simple as Deputy Boland pointed out in his statement a few days ago. I agree with Deputies MacBride and McQuillan that as members of U.N.O. we should not be afraid to criticise any Power which in our belief is abusing our position. I say "Power" because it is normally the Great Powers that do abuse their positions, because they are able to do it. I think Deputy MacBride and Deputy McQuillan are right when they say that we should not just confine ourselves to criticising atheistic Communism.

In my opinion far too much has been said of this subject. I think it goes without saying that we are Christians, that we are against Communism. We do not have to get up here to make long speeches about our implacable hatred of Communism and our implacable determination to resist it. Of course we will resist it but we are not afraid of it. We were not afraid of Britain before; we are not afraid of her now. Even though our future of them now. Even though our future may be tied up with her, it is not as the Minister says indissolubly tied up with her. It is as much tied up with the peoples of Poznam and East Berlin who revolted against Communism because it is something which is evil and contrary to the spirit of humanity. It is something which will not last and cannot last.

In the meantime, instead of talking about it, I suggest we do not have to talk about it, and that we should go on in our own way, secure in our faith and in our principles and determined to stand by them. As I say, our history and our tradition have proved that we are not afraid of dungeon, fire, sword and death, and that is about all Communism can do to anybody. It has all been done to us before, and I do hope we shall play our part in U.N.O. in the same way as we have already played a significant part in the Council of Europe.

The Convention on Human Rights which has been adopted by the Council of Europe is in a form which owes much to the work, in particular, of Deputy MacEntee. Most people now know that when the convention was originally drafted, it did not contain what came to be described afterwards as "the three Irish R's". It was Deputy MacEntee's insistence in committee on the importance of these three rights which he thought should be added to the convention and his refusal to let the convention go forward without them that caused these three Irish R's, as they had been called, to be inserted in the convention, and to be ultimately adopted. I suppose most people are aware that these are conventions which deal with the right to private property, the inviolability of the person and the right of parents to decide the form of education of their children.

These are things which the best brains of Europe had not thought about. They represent a very significant contribution towards the most important things done by the Council of Europe since it was established. I think Deputy Boland deserves great praise for his attitude in the council at all times. Like here, people are inclined to be long-winded, verbose and anything but clear. Deputy Boland is always concise, perfectly clear and always, I think, gives the impression of wisdom as well as being wise. He has consistently pointed out to the representatives there that the rights of small nations will have to be met and that the Great Powers will have to face that.

One of the friends I made there was a Labour M.P. from Britain. The last time I met him was about 12 months ago. We fell to discussing the situation in Cyprus. On many occasions previously we had discussed all sorts of subjects, but we only had about two sentences on this one. He said: "What are we going to do about Cyprus?" I said: "You have to get out." He said: "We cannot get out." I said: "You have to get out." And that was full stop to the conversation. Deputy Boland has pointed out to them what is a fact: that they have to get out, and they might as well get out with prestige and with credit to themselves now, rather than have to get out later on when they have done a great deal of damage.

While pleased that we have been admitted to the United Nations, I am a little sceptical about the value of our membership at the present time. The United Nations, as Deputy Aiken pointed out, is dominated by the Security Council, which, in turn, is dominated by the permanent members, who have the right of veto. The great hopes which were entertained when the United Nations was founded some ten years ago have not been realised, and that has been due to the abuse by the Security Council members of the excessive powers they were given in the first instance. These powers were given at a time when all the members professed their determination never again to involve the world in war and when, for instance, Russia, America and Britain were allies, fighting a common cause. That situation changed very rapidly and caused the United Nations from the very beginning to be less successful than it was hoped it would be. I hope that Deputy Aiken is right when he says that that situation will not last. I honestly believe that, if it does last, the days of the United Nations are numbered—the days of its real usefulness as an organisation for the promotion of world peace.

We can, of course, gain valuable experience and much knowledge from membership of an association with other sub-committees and sub-organisations. In the same way we have gained, or should have gained, valuable experience from our association with O.E.E.C. and other bodies in the past few years. I do not think that we have benefited from our association with O.E.E.C. in the way that we should have. I think that the recommendations which have been made by O.E.E.C., instead of being accepted by this country, have been rejected, and that we have not fashioned our economic policy in accordance with what appears to be first-class expert advice by international economic experts. Without being catty, I should like to say that I believe, if the Minister could say that his Department were at all times keeping a detailed survey of the documents coming from O.E.E.C., he would be saying something far more important than that they were keeping a detailed survey of events in Russia and Africa.

That brings me, if only briefly, to the question of Partition. For a long time, people have found it easy, and perhaps popular, to say that the solution of Partition is the biggest remaining problem in this country. For perhaps a less long time I have thought that the solution of Partition—I do not like to use that expression—that the unification of our country is not the most important object of our policy. Our primary object now should be to make a success, economically and otherwise, of the Twenty-Six Counties we have. I believe the greatest contribution we could make towards the eventual unification of our country would be the solution, not of the problem of Partition, but of the problem of the serious economic dislocation in our Twenty-Six Counties; in other words, that we have yet to prove that, even with the Twenty-Six Counties, we have laid a solid foundation for the future. We have yet to prove that we are worthy of the Twenty-Six Counties we have, and until we do, while we know we are entitled to them, we may not prove worthy of getting back the six other counties which were taken from us. I do not propose to go into the matter of how they were taken from us, and I do not think any useful purpose can be served by going back over the history of what happened 30 or 35 years ago; but I should like to say that the people of Ireland, by the mere act of passing the Constitution, which expresses itself to be the Constitution of the whole 32 counties of Ireland, have repudiated any claim to the Six Counties, whether made by a Government in this country or an outside Power, or anybody but the people of this country itself.

I asked a question of the Taoiseach about a fortnight ago about conditions in Birmingham. Unfortunately, I was not here for his reply. I understand that a Liberal organisation in Birmingham wrote to the Taoiseach, and had a copy of their letter sent to the local paper, in which they said the squalor and filth in which the Irish people were living in Birmingham were so dreadful that the Taoiseach should take measures to see that Irish people did not go there any more. The Taoiseach's reply was very carefully phrased. He had to try to avoid the statement that everything was perfect in Birmingham lest anybody would accuse him of trying to send people over there and, at the same time, to indicate that what the organisation said was not true.

I think, perhaps, I am in a less difficult position than the Taoiseach in this matter. I have gone into it carefully; I had some doctor friends of mine report to me on it, and they say it is not true that Irish people are living, for the most part, in squalor and filth in Birmingham. Large numbers of them are in the process of buying their own houses, most of them are quite well housed, most of them are being looked after, from the spiritual viewpoint, by the Church and, generally, I understand, they are a credit to the country. They have kept their traditions and religion and outlook in life as one would expect good Irishmen to do.

Of course there will always be exceptions where there are a large number of people living. You will always find the few, who, through their own fault, will live in squalor and filth. There will always be the few who will let their country down, but I think it is not true to say that, as a whole, the Irish people are not a credit, or that they are not living in reasonably good conditions in Birmingham at the present time. That is not, of course, to say, that we are encouraging them to go. Indeed we are not. We would like them to stay here, but if they must go, we would like to know they are being properly looked after.

In that connection, I think our representatives in London have done an excellent job looking after the interests of the Irish people over there. The Ambassador there has always attended the Irish games of hurling and football played in London. He keeps in contact with the Gaelic organisations and has been associated with the establishment of the Irish Club and the University Club. All round, Irish people have been well looked after by our representatives. It has been a difficult job and our representatives deserve great credit for the way in which they have done it.

I have no reason to say that any of our representatives abroad have not done excellent jobs. In my limited experience, they have done wonderful jobs for the country, and, in matters of trade and tourism, particularly as regards tourism, I believe they have done excellent jobs in bringing this country to the notice of the people with the money, interest and time to travel over here to see us.

I should like to agree with Deputy Declan Costello regarding a suggestion that our representatives in the Council of Europe should be assisted and briefed before attending. I think that is vitally essential. I was there for only one session and unfortunately, due to a little bit of gerrymandering by the Opposition who got there before us, some of us were not put on any of the committees. This, I understand, never happened before. It made things very difficult indeed. I do not wish to reopen old sores, but, as I say, it made things very difficult not being a member of any committee. The only things I could take part in were the general debates in the Assembly. I found it very difficult, ploughing through an enormous mass of documentation; it was like taking a ship out on an uncharted sea and wondering whether you were going to reach port.

I think Deputy Declan Costello's suggestion that our representatives should be briefed is a very good one. It would help considerably if the general trend of the debates in the previous session, and certain matters of principle, which one will eventually find out, anyhow, were made clear to them before they went. I also agree that the Council of Europe, as such, appears to be falling on very lean times. I am astonished to hear that anything such as the suspension of the Convention on Human Rights by Britain in relation to Cyprus should have escaped the Council of Europe. If that is so, the council is becoming moribund. We should do anything we possibly can to help the Council of Europe, but frankly I think we cannot do anything. I believe the importance of the Council of Europe is largely reflected in the attitude of the British to it and that their failure to identify themselves in a true sense with European movement has been the root cause of the failure of the Council of Europe to realise the dreams of, among other people, a very important Englishman, Winston Churchill.

I believe that until the British are prepared to do what their own leader wanted them to do, the Council of Europe will not be or become the organisation it was hoped it would be. Of course, they have done much good work in regard to the simplification of frontier formalities, refugee organisations, and all sorts of other things. These, however, are side issues, though very important ones, and I am glad to say that our country has played its part in the council's committees and that at least some of the progress that has been made has been due to the efforts of our representatives.

I should like to say that too much emphasis is laid on our implacable determination to resist Communism. We are not able to resist Communism, except through our spirit and faith and Christian outlook. If we are Christian, it goes without saying we are anti-Communist, and it also goes without saying we should be anti-oppression, no matter where we find it and that, when we take our part in U.N.O., we should not be afraid to stand up for principles of justice, honesty and truth, no matter who is hurt in the process.

The House ought to be very grateful to the Minister for his comprehensive survey of international affairs. After all, anything that happens, even in the remotest part of the world, has repercussions all over the world and Ireland has representatives, whether as missionaries or lay folk, scattered all over the world. It must be a consolation for them to know that the Minister who is looking after foreign affairs here has an interest in everything that goes on in the world.

We must accept that we belong to three world organisations: O.E.E.C., the Council of Europe and now we have entered into the world arena of the U.N.O. O.E.E.C. has served a very useful function. It is a collection of experts who are trying to heal the economic ills of the world and put them before the people and the Governments concerned, so that they may direct their energies in the proper directions and secure the best conditions for their people. I should like to make one little criticism of O.E.E.C. In the extensive report the organisation produced recently, covering all the member countries, it saw fit to devote only a few pages to agriculture whereas 25 per cent. of the total gross population the organisation represents are mainly concerned with agriculture. I feel sure that the vital interests of that 25 per cent. should have been dealt with at greater length than three pages out of 300. This is a vital point so far as we are concerned because we are predominantly agricultural, dependent in our economy on the produce and the markets of that industry.

What Deputy MacBride said is very true, that the great difference between the Council of Europe and the United Nations is that the representatives of the Council of Europe representing this or any other country go out as spokesmen of their country. In the majority of instances, they go out as authorised deputies elected by the people of that country and they are free to express their own sentiments, and the sentiments they are expressing are not necessarily the sentiments of their own Government. Several speakers here have said that it should be possible for the members of the Council of Europe, when they are going abroad, to be briefed by the Department of External Affairs. I do not think there is any difficulty in any Deputy obtaining whatever brief he wants at any time from that Department. Whenever I have gone to the Department of External Affairs or to any other Department, before travelling abroad to attend a meeting of some committee, I have never had the slightest difficulty in getting all the necessary assistance and information.

The Council of Europe may have its ups and downs but it serves a very useful function. The General Affairs Committee of the Council of Europe some 12 months ago issued a report in which suggestions were made in connection with the drafting of the Paris Treaty, the successor of the one that had failed, and the suggested draft was practically identical with the treaty that was ratified by the Powers concerned a short time afterwards. I make this statement to show that the representatives on the Council of Europe are representative of the various Parliaments; they are representative not only of the Government side of the House but of the Opposition as well. They are, in effect, the democratic voice of Europe, and they must serve a useful function when they are able to come to almost unanimous agreement in the promulgation or preparation of the suggestions and ideas that ultimately inspired the Ministers who drafted this final treaty.

Anyone who travels abroad on behalf of his country, being a member of an organisation or a public representative, is serving a useful function for his country. An Irish representative is in a strong position to put the case for Ireland, from the point of view of tourism, trade and of our cultural or, if you like, spiritual outlook, before the other nations of the world. I agree that we should not spend all our time voicing the fact that we are opposed to Communism. We have no need to do that. Our history is such that everybody in every country of the world knows that we loathe brutal atheism and tyranny, no matter where they may be met. I feel, however, that Ireland has a great opportunity in the United Nations of showing to the world that we are unflinching and unchanging in our principles and, no matter what discussion may come up and no matter what groups or blocs may be formed, our members will always maintain that the individual has the right to freedom and to determine his own future.

The fact that we are joining the United Nations and that, as the Minister has asserted, we will stand by the principles adopted by the free nations of the world, does not mean that we will become anybody's "stooge". It means that we are simply asserting the rights and the principles that we have always had and always will have in any international assembly wherever we may be. Yesterday the Taoiseach told us how one issue was decided in the United Nations by one vote. The time may come when that one vote to establish some historic principle or something we may believe to be right may rest in the hands of the Irish representatives. I welcome the fact that we are a member of the United Nations. The benefits that will accrue to us from it, even though it may cost us a little more in our annual budgetary returns for the Department of External Affairs, will be immeasurable.

In relation to Partition, what strikes me is that most things settle themselves ultimately in this world by force of economics. No one will gainsay the fact that the Six Counties is an uneconomic unit. That is borne out by the fact that some time ago a member of the British Parliamentary Opposition went over to Northern Ireland and interviewed people there with the idea of trying to deal with the unemployment and the economic stress arising in that part of our country. The net result was that the British Government was forced to provide special aid and to treat the Six Counties as a special area. Following on that, they found themselves faced with claims from Wales and Scotland for the same reason. It will be seen, therefore, that economics have the last word in everything, that if the Imperial Parliament, which is not in the happy financial position it was in in days gone by, finds it is repeatedly faced with a charge to maintain and sustain an uneconomic unit, the growing pressure brought to bear by other parts of the country will bring it home to her that it may not be good economics to continue this anomaly that exists to-day under the forced régime of the British Parliament.

I should like to pay my tribute to our Embassies abroad. It has been my privilege in the last few years to be abroad a good deal as a member of the Council of Europe. I have been to a good many Embassies and I have met most of our public representatives abroad. We may hold our heads high in the knowledge that the servants of the State who represent us in the different Embassies are a credit to Ireland.

It has been suggested here that they are not carrying out their full functions with regard to tourism and trade. Let me say that I have never been to an Irish Embassy anywhere abroad, in Europe anyway, where I have not seen every evidence of those Embassies trying to sell to the countries they are in the benefits of holidays in Ireland. I believe that a lot of our tourist trade that comes here from Europe is due entirely to the devoted efforts of our servants in those Embassies. Quite recently I was going through a city in Europe and the Embassy there had conducted the finalising arrangements in a trade agreement, and I know that those men were sitting up far into the night working. In fact, they were almost worn out at the end of the hard work they had put into the negotiation of that agreement.

Practically all our trade is conducted through our Embassies and Ministries abroad. They serve us well, and to reduce or cut down any of them would not be in the best interests of the State. Anybody who suggests that is doing a grave disservice to the Irish nation.

My remarks will not take me as far afield as Asia or Africa, but will refer to one matter much nearer home which nevertheless is, I think, primarily the responsibility of the Department of External Affairs. We are very often reminded by the newspapers that foreign fishing fleets show a very unwelcome interest in the waters around our shores, and unpleasant incidents have happened on several occasions. I should like to ask the Minister in this regard about the progress being made in applying for the benefit of Irish territorial waters the findings of the International Court of The Hague on the dispute between Britain and Norway. I know that a good deal of the judgment refers exclusively to the facts of the case that was before the court, but, in the course of deciding that dispute, certain international principles generally applicable have been established, and, on the basis of these general principles, it is possible, I understand, for the Irish Government to extend the area of its territorial waters very considerably.

I know that this is not going to solve the problem which irritates our fishermen very often. As a matter of fact, it may in certain respects aggravate it. The criticism may be offered that if we are not able to protect adequately the lesser area of exclusive fishery limits, how can we hope to protect even as well as we are now doing the extended area which will become our right when this decision of The Hague has been applied to our case. But there is perhaps this consideration in relation to it, that the intruding foreigner will have a bigger distance to travel to get clear of our exclusive waters, if in fact we succeed in extending their area.

I know that there are Departments other than External Affairs intimately interested in it. Fisheries, of course, is obviously one. I understand that Defence is another, that the Revenue are interested, and Local Government, and I take it that the Department of External Affairs will be the coordinating agency in producing the new régime that will meet the viewpoints of these various national interests. One of these interests, namely, Fisheries, has drawn up a tentative map on the basis of the decisions given by the court. Whether the map so drawn up has been accepted by the other Departments and confirmed by the Department of External Affairs, I am not in a position to say, but in spite of the enlarged problem of protection which the increased area will provide the Fishery Protection Service with, nevertheless I think it would be a very good thing if we could establish this larger exclusive fishery area.

I understand that certain agreements which were tentatively entered into before the war between certain of our civil servants and their counterparts in Britain cannot now be enforced, and in fact we are entitled to make a larger claim than apparently the officials on both sides on that occasion were prepared to agree to. I understand that the question of certain of our bays has now been rendered a much easier problem as a result of the court decision. It is obvious that, in the first instance, we shall have to arrange with the British, but I think that, having done that, the other nations would then fall into line with whatever agreement would be made between ourselves and the British. It is not British fishing boats which have been causing the trouble here in recent times. They are mainly French and occasionally Spaniards, although a good spirit of camaraderie seems to exist on the West coast between the Spaniards and our fishermen, and, in fact, our local population.

I am conscious of the fact that even after we have done the best we can in this matter, there will still be incidents, and that it will be very largely in the hands of the Fisheries Branch to fill in whatever gaps may be left; but, in any event, perhaps the Minister would say how far he has progressed in preparing the case which he will ask the British Government to discuss with him on the basis of this international decision.

Before the Minister concludes, there is one matter to which I should like to refer as briefly as possible. As a result of a recent publication, containing many slipshod inaccuracies, a revival of a campaign of slander against Roger Casement has taken place. In their effort to build up a case against Roger Casement, certain people have used evidence of a most questionable character. A worse aspect of the affair is that recently, as a result of a debate in the British House of Commons, a memorandum of the filthiest and foulest type now appears published in Hansard. Following that, an article appear in The Spectator in which the writer suggested that a concordat had been entered into between the British and the Irish Government to remain silent on this question. Fortunately, the Minister completely refuted that allegation. In recent Press correspondence, we were fortunate also in having very competent people defending the character of Roger Casement. The writer in The Spectator, however, said that he was strengthened in holding his opinion because of the silence of the Minister on this question.

I urge the Minister now to take a very serious view of this campaign. The Taoiseach, in his speech, referred to friends and the advantages to be gained from their friendship. As a result of this recent campaign, we now know that we have very prominent people on the other side who are prepared to play their part in defending the character of Roger Casement. I suggest that, as a campaign of this sort could cause most unpleasant disagreement between the two nations, and as the authorities in England denied Casement an opportunity of defending his character before they hanged him, and refused a very distinguished American journalist's repeated request to interview Casement on this subject, English people at the present time should at least have the decency to discontinue this foul campaign against Roger Casement.

I appeal to the Minister to take serious note of this and to do what he can to stop it. Apart from his responsibility as the Minister concerned, like myself, he represents the constituency in which Roger Casement was born and, for that reason, I make a very special appeal to him.

I am afraid this debate has suffered from the fact that it has been interrupted on a number of occasions and, for that reason, some Deputies appear not to have followed what I said or to have interpreted it in a way different from that which I intended in introducing the Estimate. When opening this debate, I expressed the view that the Government welcomed the admission of this country to the United Nations. Since that, this debate has shown that that view has been fortified by expressions of opinion from different quarters of this House.

In welcoming our admission, I emphasised that we had responsibilities to discharge and that, while these responsibilities were not lightly undertaken, we could not escape the consequences of our admission or avoid the expense attaching to it. The Government recognised once this country was admitted, that that admission would involve increased expenditure. The original decision to apply for membership was taken almost ten years ago and, on that occasion, the Dáil unanimously decided to apply for membership. It was not possible then, and it is not possible even now, to estimate exactly what financial cost that will entail; but, on the basis of the figures available to the Department, the Estimate has been framed on the appropriate charge which would fall to be met by this country. At the end of this year, when the General Assembly meets, there may be some slight revision one way or the other in the figure.

While a number of Deputies expressed concern at the cost of this Department, few of them adverted to the fact that, in spending the money which this Department is obliged to spend, quite a considerable proportion of that expenditure is incurred in respect of membership of various international organisations. Once the initial decision to accept membership is taken, it follows automatically that, if we are to remain members, we are obliged to meet the commitments attaching to membership.

I have here figures which show that expenditure under Vote 59—the Vote for International Co-operation— amounted in 1946-1947 to £20,173 for the then League of Nations. There was no contribution in 1947-1948 because the league had ceased to exist. In 1948-1949, for O.E.E.C. and the Council of Europe, the figure first placed in the Estimate was £19,499. That figure increased each year until in 1953-1954, it stood at £36,349. There was a slight reduction in 1954-1955 and another slight reduction this year to £33,000. These figures indicate, first of all, the fact that, once we become members of these organisations, we are liable for our contribution on the appropriate basis as between the various member countries. Secondly, we have to provide travelling expenses for the delegates and the official missions which attend the meetings of the parent body or meetings of sub-committees under it. Consequently, we have very little choice except to meet the expense involved and if we want to avoid the expense the only way it can be done is either by not joining initially or ceasing to remain members of it.

A number of Deputies referred to the fact that we had a great many missions abroad. Deputy de Valera said the Vote had now reached very large proportions, comparing the cost now and the cost pre-war and in 1947-48. He also referred to the fall in the value of the £ sterling. In some cases, of course, that is aggravated even more so by the fact that we have got to deal in dollars in the case of the United States and Canada. I have here a list of the various missions which were opened and the dates on which they were opened. The first mission was in London in 1923. Then followed Washington in 1924; the Holy See, Paris and Germany in 1929; Madrid in 1935; Rome, the Quirinal, in 1937; Ottawa in 1938; Berne in 1940; Lisbon in 1942; Canberra in 1946; Stockholm in 1946; Brussels in 1947; Buenos Aires in 1948; The Hague in 1949 and Bonn in 1950. In addition, a consulate-general was appointed in New York in 1929. Consuls were appointed in Boston in 1930, in Chicago in 1932 and in San Francisco in 1933. The Minister to Italy was accredited to Turkey in 1951: that is a dual accredition. Similarly, the Minister to Berne was accredited to Austria in 1952 and the Minister at Stockholm was accredited to Norway in 1950. Prior to 1947, the Minister at Paris was accredited to Belgium. At the end of last year, the permanent delegate was appointed to the Council of Europe in Strasbourg.

I think it will be seen that most of these missions were opened either before the war or immediately afterwards. Once a decision is taken to open a mission, it follows that whatever expense is involved must be met. I think anybody who has experience or who even examines the Estimates will appreciate that most of our offices abroad consist of a very limited staff— in some cases a Minister or Ambassador and additional staff consisting of either one or two persons. There are, of course, exceptions such as in London, Washington and Paris but in a few places we have only a single person representing the country. It will be appreciated that that makes it all the more difficult for the individual involved. I believe that so far as our offices abroad are concerned the staff is at the minimum possible. We have carefully examined the staffing position in a number of these places to see if any reductions are possible and some changes will be made which will enable us to provide staff for the new United Nations mission at New York. However, when Deputies suggest that the representatives abroad should engage in furthering trade and tourism they must recognise that all that work which is already part of the responsibilities of our missions abroad entails both time and effort and needs sufficient staff to carry it out.

In my opening speech, I referred to the fact that we have a number of trade agreements with foreign countries and that, excluding the 1938 and 1948 trade agreements with Britain, we have agreements with a number of European countries. All of these agreements were concluded in 1950 or later except the agreement with France in 1948 and Sweden in 1949. They were concluded in order to facilitate the development of actual or potential markets in Irish products. In the case of certain countries, it would have been impossible, without concluding a trade agreement, to secure specific import quotas for non-liberalised Irish goods. In 1955, the exports to the countries concerned amounted to £4,000,000 and that represented 28 per cent. of the value of our exports in that year to all areas other than Britain and the Six Counties.

The different representatives abroad, with the exception of the representative to the Vatican, are all engaged in the promotion of trade and tourism. They assist in the direct negotiation of trade agreements. They secure information from the Departments with which they are dealing in the countries to which they are accredited and they keep our Department informed directly and other Departments either directly or through information supplied from the Department to the home Departments that are affected by it.

I think it is true to say that substantial benefits have flowed from these trade agreements. It is a fact that in most cases our balance of trade with the countries with which we have trade agreements is heavily against us and it is the responsibility of the representatives abroad to try to improve that position. They have on many occasions, as a result of their efforts, succeeded in securing import quotas for goods which were not formerly available and succeeded in securing facilities for imports of commodities which exporters here were anxious to sell to the countries concerned.

It is not possible specifically to say what actual benefit is secured by the expenditure of the Department either at home or abroad. It is easy to criticise the amount of the expenditure. It is easy to suggest that a reduction could be made but, as I have said, once the initial decision is taken to open a mission or become a member of a particular international body or organisation, financial consequences follow and if we are to remain members we have got to meet the commitments which are decided by the body as a whole, generally on a proportionate basis according to the size or population of the country or on some other accepted basis.

Similarly in the case of trade. These trade agreements have meant considerable benefits to our exporters and to our traders who were anxious to avail of them. Again, it is not possible specifically to say to what extent the work of the missions abroad has contributed to the negotiation of these trade agreements. I have in the Department many tributes from people who have conducted trade discussions, or who have sold or exported goods to countries abroad, complimenting officials and officers, either of the Department at home or of the missions abroad, who facilitated them in the work and in the development of whatever particular item of trade they were interested in.

The fact that a number of these agreements were negotiated at all was due to the work of the representatives of the Department in the countries concerned. It is equally true that they were assisted by representatives of the Departments of Finance, Agriculture, and Industry and Commerce, and in some cases by officials of Córas Tráchtála. All of the work which goes into the negotiating of these trade agreements has been materially assisted by the efforts which our representatives abroad have made and by their constant attention to the necessity for expanding our trade with the countries with which we have representation.

The same is true of tourism. The Department's representatives keep in touch with tourist agencies; they supply information about the country and keep in touch directly with the Department at home, and with Bord Fáilte Éireann, as well as giving, in many cases, lectures and keeping people in other countries informed generally on the facilities available here for holidays and for tourists. It is not possible, as it is in the case of expenditure under other Votes, or on specific projects, to say that it cost so much and that there is the actual return. In these cases, all we can do is to use our energies to the maximum extent possible and to realise that, when trade improves or when we can increase the number of tourists coming to the country, there has been secured a lasting benefit to the economy as a whole.

Before the Minister leaves the subject of trade representatives, would he say whether he has considered sending a trade representative to Belfast and asking Belfast to send a representative here.

That question has been raised before, but I think it has never been regarded as necessary. Trade carried on between here and Belfast is carried on directly by the traders concerned.

In regard to our admission to the United Nations, as I explained in introducing the Estimate, it will be our aim to play our part so far as our resources permit, and, in doing so, to use our influence to see that the Charter of the U.N.O. is implemented in practice; to get other countries to accept the principles of the charter and to see that they are implemented in practice. Some criticism has been expressed of the organisation. Of course it is not a perfect organisation —few human institutions are—but we feel we have a responsibility to make some contribution to co-operation between States and nations. This contribution must be based on our tradition as a Christian people, implementing the principles of justice and charity. While we have no great material resources or strength, we have, spread throughout the world, Irish missionaries who exert a powerful influence for good. We have the descendants of Irish people, many of whom have obtained positions of influence and many of whom are in humble occupations. But the vast majority of them reflect credit on the country from which they have sprung and their influence is directed towards the implementation of the spirit of good will and harmony, wherever their efforts can be directed to these ends.

As I said at the beginning, our tradition, culture and history has manifested itself in opposition to tyranny and oppression. I found it difficult to follow some of the remarks during the course of this debate, in so far as they suggested that what I had said at the beginning differed in any way from what other Deputies said about some of the problems which confront the world. I referred, at the beginning, to the movement which is widespread in Asia, Africa and other parts of the world—the growing desire for self-determination on the part of subject peoples and the rise of national feeling in opposition to systems of imperialistic domination surviving from the past— and I went on to say that it was impossible for us with our history to regard this general development otherwise than with sympathy.

Listening to some of the speakers during this debate, I was forced to the conclusion that either they did not hear this or they did not read the debate, if they were not present when the Estimate was introduced. I went on to say that these ideals were the same as those which animated the Irish people in their struggle for independence. I agree with Deputy Boland when he says that colonialism and all that it connotes is outdated. I believe a new approach is needed. It is, of course, I suppose, easy enough to see some of these problems when we are not directly concerned with them, but, with our experience, with our history and looking at the developments that have taken place—in some cases, in comparatively recent times—especially in the cases of India, Ceylon and Pakistan, we recognise that the developments which have occurred in these cases will be followed by some sort of similar solution elsewhere. I agree with those who expressed the view that, to some extent, the policy being pursued in preventing and refusing the rights of self-determination, in cases such as Cyprus, inevitably weakens civilisation's defences against the spread of Communism.

I expressed that view at the beginning, but, listening to portion of this debate, I am forced to the conclusion that some Deputies did not hear or read it. In that regard, it must be our responsibility in U.N.O. to see, whereever possible, that our efforts are devoted to securing a pacific settlement of these problems. We recognise that many of these problems are complex, that they are not all as simple as they would appear to be from a casual reading of newspaper or other reports and that, in the more enlightened modern approach to these problems, it is obvious that the old style colonialism is dead and that the sooner ordinary democratic rights are applied to these cases, the quicker and, inevitably, the easier it will be to get a solution.

If these problems are faced on the basis that a settlement sooner or later must be secured, it will prevent bitterness and resentment and avoid in many cases the bloodshed which will follow if a solution is not sought on the lines on which we have been working in many other cases.

As I said at the beginning, I believe that, with our background and experience, we can play some part in the work of U.N.O. The view has been expressed here that our contribution, to be effective, not only should be based on our traditions and culture, but that, in addition, we should adopt an independent attitude. I said in introducing the Estimate that I think that, as a member of U.N.O., we should try to maintain a position of independence, judging the various questions on which we have to adopt an attitude or cast our vote strictly on their merits in a just and disinterested way. I went on to say that, on the long term view, we will better serve our interests and gain more respect and influence for ourselves if, by maintaining our independence, we leave our hands free to pursue what may come to be generally recognised as a fair, helpful and constructive role, but the implementation of that policy does not mean that we should avoid contact with other groups. We will co-operate and collaborate wherever possible with other countries who think on lines similar to our approach to the problems.

Even great States and nations require friends and smaller countries probably need friends more than others. Consequently in order to use our influence to the best advantage in U.N.O. we must have friends; we must secure the sympathetic co-operation of other countries. Unless we get from these other countries sympathy for our point of view, it is obvious that we can have little effect or little influence. It is, of course, a fact that many countries who are members of the United Nations as well as members of the other international organisations to which we have referred have their own problems. Great numbers of them have even greater problems than we have. It is only human that these countries should be more concerned with their own problems, just as we are more concerned with our problems, but, if we are to attend the United Nations, or any other organisation, with the sole idea of raising our own problems on every occasion on which it is possible to do so and if we blind ourselves to the facts and to the realities of the situation, then we will neither help our own case nor secure for our cause the help, the sympathy and the co-operation which are essential if we are to secure support in the various organisations of which we are a member.

As Deputies who have attended these bodies know, we are dependent, just as other countries are dependent, on support for the points of view to which we give expression. There are, of course, occasions when we have got to take a definite stand on particular questions on which we have our own viewpoint, but in most cases the matters discussed are decided by the general consensus of opinion.

It is, of course, true that the U.N.O. suffers from the defect that the Security Council has very considerable powers and that the veto which is reserved to the permanent members can be used to block action or to prevent decisions being taken, if one of the members of the Security Council chooses to exercise it. It was, of course, in that way that our application for membership was prevented from being accepted for nine years, but, as I say, this organisation is not perfect. We can only hope that, by using our influence in collaboration and co-operation with other countries who think as we do on some of these problems, ultimately right will prevail and the decisions which will be taken will be based on the application of the principles which we regard as fundamental.

It goes without saying that we will maintain so far as possible an independent line of action and that we will judge each issue on its merits, in the light of the information supplied to us and in the light of the discussions which take place on the particular problems. As I have said, that independence of action does not mean that we will not consult with other groups or associate with them where it would be to the advantage of this country to do so. Naturally, we will keep in close contact with representatives of other countries who think and act on lines similar to our approach.

A number of Deputies referred to the work of the Council of Europe and O.E.E.C. I am most anxious to brief delegates to the Council of Europe as fully as possible. The officers of my Department are available to assist Deputies whenever their help is required. I think it only right to say that, whenever assistance has been requested, it has been made available as fully and as freely as it has been possible to do so. We are only anxious that Deputies should approach the Department whenever they feel that either documentation or information on any particular matter is available in the Department which would be useful to them. They are most welcome to it.

Reference has been made to the meetings of the Council of Europe. I cannot say definitely, but I believe that the Committee of Ministers has rarely met more frequently than it has met in recent years. Generally the Committee of Ministers meets twice a year, but sometimes it meets more frequently. Within the past 12 months, the Ministers have met on three occasions. I do not know whether the calling of more meetings would promote more interest or persuade countries to take action where they are reluctant to do so. Frequently references have been made at the General Assembly to the fact that the Committee of Ministers does not take the assembly's views sufficiently into account. It is a fact that the assembly has no responsibility for the carrying out of policies in their own countries. They can use their influence in their own Parliaments to get particular viewpoints accepted, but the responsibility for direct action devolves on the Governments concerned. It is not always possible to get Governments to agree to a line of action, unless they realise that some benefit is likely to accrue from it.

So far as O.E.E.C. is concerned, all documentation that comes from it is examined carefully by my Department and is circulated to the other Departments interested. Only to-day the Foreign Trade Committee is considering a proposal which has come from O.E.E.C. It is well to realise that some of these proposals might well conflict, directly or indirectly, so far as our trade and the assistance and encouragement of our industry is concerned. We have already gone to a very considerable extent to meet the wishes of that organisation in so far as the liberalisation of trade is concerned. We have reached the target of 90 per cent. Not many other countries have reached that level, and some of the countries that are most vocal with regard to tariffs and restrictions have not themselves reached the target of 90 per cent. which this country has reached.

Some of the other countries have State trading to far greater extent than we have and they also have balance of trade problems, so that it does not suit their own internal economy to go to the 90 per cent. stage of liberalisation. So far as we are concerned, we have endeavoured to meet the requirements of O.E.E.C. so far as we consider them suitable to our conditions. To that extent, we examine carefully every proposal put up. It is not in our interest to implement some of the suggestions made and consequently many of the proposals made at O.E.E.C. require very careful scrutiny to see whether they conflict with our protection policy and the measures we have taken to assist industry and protect our own economy from the point of view of employment.

Deputy Bartley referred to the question of territorial waters and he asked what developments had taken place. This matter has been under consideration for a number of years. The International Law Commission of U.N.O. met in Geneva and failed to reach agreement. A number were in favour of the extension of the three mile limit, but the United States and Britain were against any extension. It was finally noted that many countries had already extended beyond the three mile limit, but that many did not accept such extension and it was suggested that a further conference should be held to consider the matter. As Deputies will appreciate, there is not much advantage in extending the range of our territorial waters, unless that extension is recognised by other countries. Some of these other countries laid claim to a far greater distance than three miles and laid claim to the ocean bed for a very considerable distance, but unless such claims are universally recognised and accepted, there would be no advantage in them.

It is a fact that the responsibility for protection, as the Deputy said, of the rights of our fishermen is one shared not only by my Department but by the Fisheries Section of the Department of Agriculture and the Department of Defence. We will ensure that whenever this country is represented at any conference our interests and our views are given expression to.

Quite apart from the question of increasing the number of miles, the specific question I asked was what progress had been made in relating the principle established in the decision in the case between Britain and Norway to our case?

I think the Deputy is referring to the altered drawing of lines of measurement. It was decided not to proceed until the general question has been settled. Our case and the Norwegian case are different because of the nature of the coastline. If the suggested measurements were adopted, we would gain in some cases and in some we would lose. It was generally thought by the Departments concerned here that to alter the method of measurement at the present time would be dealing with the problem in a piecemeal manner and that it was better to wait until the general question was settled, or until we could see some prospect of a better result.

Deputy Brady referred to the recent campaign to discredit Roger Casement. I should like to assure the Deputy and the House that I have repeatedly repudiated the suggestion that this Government, or any Irish Government, had ever entered into a concordat or agreement with the British Government on this matter. But, of course, Deputies will appreciate it is not possible for any Government Department to refute every allegation made on any particular matter. Some of the articles on this matter have been published in The Spectator and in other journals and newspapers in Britain, but it is equally true—and it is not without some significance—that a lot of the correspondence on the matter was carried on in a newspaper in this country. Of course, again, we cannot prevent people writing to these newspapers. There is no censorship or restriction imposed on people, but I have no doubt that the vast majority of the people of this country recognise this renewed campaign as being merely another effort to discredit the memory of Casement, who gave his life in the service of Ireland.

Vote put and agreed to.
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