Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 26 Jun 1957

Vol. 163 No. 1

Committee on Finance. - Vote 27—Agriculture.

Minister for Agriculture (Mr. Moylan)

I move:—

That a sum not exceeding £4,042,950 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1958, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Agriculture, including certain Services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain Subsidies and sundry Grants-in-Aid.

Deputies will observe that the Estimate as originally printed in the Book of Estimates has been revised and that the net total, or the sum required for the service of the year, has been reduced from the original figure of £8,387,950 to £6,837,950—a decrease of £1,550,000. The revision follows upon the decisions announced by the Minister for Finance in his Budget statement of the 8th May last to withdraw the dairy produce subsidies as from the 9th May, 1957, resulting in a decrease under this sub-head of £1,900,000 and to provide a sum of £250,000 for the general purpose of improving the marketing of agricultural produce. In addition a further sum of £100,000 is being provided to enable compensation at the full market value to be paid for all cows slaughtered under the Bovine Tuberculosis Order, 1926, in those counties which are not scheduled for intensive treatment under the existing scheme in the immediate future.

I have assumed office only very recently and I do not think that, at this stage, it is necessary or desirable to indicate in any detail my policy in regard to the multiple activities of my Department. It is my view that, in spite of ministerial changes, there ought to be a certain coherence and continuity of agricultural policy. If I see the necessity for making policy changes, I shall act with caution and circumspection, giving full consideration to the results and consequences of any proposed change.

In the White Paper which has been issued to Deputies and entitled "Notes on Some Activities of the Department", a factual account will be found of the various schemes and activities of the Department of Agriculture and of recent trends in production and export. The White Paper, I think, gives all the figures that will be required by Deputies and I do not now intend to go into statistical detail. What I propose to do is to mention what I believe to be the most important and urgent agricultural problems.

Reading, for anybody concerned with agriculture, is nowadays a dismal occupation. The difficulties of other countries, as portrayed in agricultural magazine and newspapers, are not dissimilar to our own and tend to intensify our problem. But we have laid one agricultural bogy, the doubt about our capacity to produce. Better methods of husbandry, a more generous use of fertiliser, reasonable mechanisation have substantially increased our production and given guarantee of future increase.

We have for the moment in some commodities an embarrassment of riches, a new problem, a challenge to our capacity. Our most serious difficulty now is that any surplus, which we are agreed is necessary, has to face unsatisfactory conditions, particularly in regard to price, in the export market. But facing that difficulty, I am convinced that it is of national advantage that the quantity of milk delivered to creameries in 1956 was the greatest since creameries were established. All indications are that 1957 will bring us new records. Continuing increase is necessary if we are to be placed in a position to meet our competitors on level terms and to place our dairy industry in a secure position.

An aim of ours must be to substitute feeding barley for imported maize. This must be produced at a cost that enables pig production to be an economic venture. This year's crop will eliminate the need for imports or at least bring them to that minimum required for special rations.

This year's wheat crop promises to be a record also and the problem of the 100 per cent. Irish loaf looms nearer. Here again, we must move with caution, sifting objection and ascertaining fully all the facts before coming to a final decision. There is no easy solution of our problem but we must face one ineluctable fact, increased production is valueless if it is not accompanied by a reduction of cost per unit of output. I believe that we are swiftly arriving at the position where this may be achieved.

I mentioned earlier that a sum of £250,000 has been set aside by the Government for the purpose of improving our marketing methods. I have had a number of proposals for the expenditure of this money, proposals which my officials are now examining. I am hopeful of the development of ideas which will be of value to this country economically.

An important aspect of our problem is the effect of Britain's policy on our agricultural production and exports; this is a matter which is of concern also to such countries as New Zealand, the Netherlands and Denmark. The extremely high prices guaranteed to farmers in Britain for eggs, pigs and milk have stimulated production of these to a level well in excess of prewar figures, which in turn has led to a weakening of prices on the free market, so that almost all countries which export have been finding it necessary in one way or other to subsidise their exports. In our case the most serious results have been felt in the case of the egg industry whose exports are now only about 7 per cent. of what they were in 1938, and we have also been rather seriously affected in the case of milk products and bacon.

In fairness, I should say immediately that in the case of store cattle and store sheep and lambs we have a valuable link with the price guarantee paid to British farmers on British bred stock. This has provided a very important support for our most important export trade though it has had repercussions on the fatstock and particularly the carcase meat export trade. In general, it would be my hope that arrangements could be made between the two countries which would enable us to expand our exports of eggs, milk products and pig meat to the British market as was intended under the various trade agreements between the two countries and in particular the provisions of those agreements in regard to free entry and preferential treatment. If we are to continue to be one of Britain's most important European customers, it seems to me to be essential to place our exports to Britain on a more long-term and secure basis than is the case at present.

Our trade with some countries results in heavy imports and minimum exports. I am not at all satisfied with this state of affairs. Mutual trade should bring mutual benefit, otherwise it cannot continue.

A matter of really vital importance is the eradication of Bovine Tuberculosis. As Deputies know, the future of our export trade in cattle is bound up with this. We started only towards the end of 1954 whereas the first measures in Britain were introduced in 1935. We of course had much more formidable financial and personnel questions to face than the British had, but an all out effort is necessary during the next five years. Good progress has already been made in the intensive areas of County Sligo and County Clare and it is intended that the whole of the Western Counties from Donegal to Kerry, together with Leitrim and Monaghan will be included in the intensive areas within the next year. In addition, special measures are now being introduced in the non-intensive areas with a view to expediting the removal of open or clinical cases.

It is believed that these measures will in themselves have an appreciable influence in reducing the incidence of tuberculosis in those areas and that complete eradication will therefore be easier when these areas become intensive, as they all will in due course. Local authorities are accordingly being authorised to pay, for such cases removed under the Bovine Tuberculosis Order, the full market value instead of a fraction as at present and the cost will be recouped in full by my Department. I have introduced a Bill dealing with tuberculosis eradication and I am actively studying the means whereby it is hoped we could speed up the work. Here I would like to say that the co-operation of farmers, veterinary practitioners, transport and shipping companies and all other interests concerned is essential and I am sure that I can count on their active help.

A new factor of importance for our future emerges in the proposals for the European Free Market. We must of course do everything in our power to develop our existing continental markets in a satisfactory manner and we are therefore closely following the discussions that are now taking place on the arrangements for the Free Trade Area. But let us not be so optimistic about the matter as to forget that entry for us into the Free Trade Area, if established, will mean entry on a competitive basis vis-a-vis agriculturists who have survived the rigours of strenuous competition.

An improvement in our trade relations with Britain will not be less important for us because of any development of our European trade.

I have left to the end a word on education in agriculture to emphasise its importance; future progress in agriculture is entirely dependent on it.

I understand that there has been a considerable increase in the number of agricultural instructors and I am sure that all county committees of agriculture are alive to the fact that many more are required.

Higher education and research are the background of the advisory services. These stand in need of reorganisation and development. We have been sufficiently fortunate as to receive, from the Government of the United States, a grant for the creation of an agricultural institute. Certain discussions have taken place and a Bill has been introduced in this House to give effect to decisions made. I shall not comment on the matter except to say that the success of such an institute must be judged by both the immediate and long-term development it promotes. We must expect it to provide a marked increase in agricultural output, effective economic direction and close contact for the farmer with the latest developments in agricultural science.

I have so recently publicised our problem in relation to swine fever that I am sure all Deputies are familiar with the danger of allowing it to continue as it is. We have introduced, specially, rather harsh measures and I am hopeful that these will be successful, but, if they are to be successful, we shall need the co-operation of all people closely, or at a distance, associated with the pig industry.

In the past dozen years, there has been a vast change in the agricultural outlook. There is no doubt that the years of educational travail have borne fruit. I am therefore optimistic about the future of Irish farming. Having an almost chauvinistic belief in my own people I look to the future with confidence and hope.

I should like to begin the observations I have to make, which I trust will be modelled on the succinct example of the Minister, by offering him my sincere best wishes for his success in what I consider to be the most important Ministry in the Government. There are certain things I want to comment on and I trust I will be excused if I begin by recording some measure of satisfaction that in this year we can rejoice over the greatest production ever in the history of the agricultural industry in Ireland, in milk, wheat, barley, cattle and sheep. I am a great believer in the proposition that the best test of policy is results. Those are the results of a policy we have been following recently in this country and I think they are results of which we may be justly proud.

When we remember that in the past ten years the gross agricultural output of the agricultural industry of this country has increased by between 30 and 32 per cent., and that, in the first quarter of this year, the months of January, February and March, we exported more cattle from Ireland than at any corresponding period in our recorded history, I think we would be well advised to share the Minister's expression of confidence in the future, without in any sense underestimating the formidable difficulties that confront the industry and that must confront the Minister now responsible for it. I want to pay the Minister this tribute, that I welcome from his lips the last paragraph of his statement here today. I am sick listening to all the dismal jennies that infest this country, who spend their time wringing their hands and groaning about the sufferings of our people, and of some of the so-called economic advisers who would not be fit to advise a chandler's shop, never mind the agricultural industry of this country.

It should be a matter for rejoicing that if we have to have—and it is a sore trial—a Fianna Fáil Minister for Agriculture, at least we have one who has some faith in the agricultural community and the agricultural industry itself. I fully appreciate that it would be unreasonable to press the Minister to go into any great detail, on this occasion of the introduction of the first Estimate for which he is responsible, but I think he might, in concluding this debate, give us some more information as to the proposals that are submitted to him for the expenditure of £250,000 on market research.

I am all in favour of research and there is no proposal too radical to command my support, if it is designed to produce results, but there are some pseudo-experts floating around this country and they would most cheerfully think up some daft, crazy notion which represents the consequences of their burning of midnight oil, studying textbooks, plus a smattering of a few cheap trips to Denmark, Holland, Sweden and Peru, and foist on us some daft notions and in the process wipe out valuable existing marketing procedures that have stood the test of time.

Let me emphasise that there is no institution so venerable in this country that we should not be prepared to terminate it, if its usefulness has ceased, but it was Gilbert Keith Chesterton who first reminded people that they should be very slow to abolish even an ancient usage, the meaning of which we had ceased to understand until we found out what originally gave rise to it, because that ancient usage may have been formulated prior to the memory of man to abate some serious evil. It may have done its work so well that the evil it was originally designed to remedy has gone completely from the mind of man, but, suspend that usage, and the evil may manifest itself again and we have no guarantee that our generation may be as wise as those who went before, and we may not evolve a remedy as wise as that which worked so well that we forgot the problem.

There may be marketing methods in this country that appear cumbersome to some of the experts and that some of the experts would like to streamline. I would like to see their streamlined methods functioning side by side with the old methods, before discarding the old to depend exclusively on the new. Certainly it is true in business that those who best know how to trade are those who make their living in it. I have been a shopkeeper a long time in my life, and if I listened to all the advice that was tendered to me on how I was to run my shop, I would be resident in the Union in James's Street. That does not mean that everything we are doing is perfect. Far from it; there is plenty of room for improvement, but I rejoice to hear the Minister say that every step he takes will be taken with due deliberation and that he refuses to permit himself to be dazzled by every daft suggestion which pours in through the door of the Department of Agriculture.

As I said in this House once before, the Department of Agriculture has one unique feature. Every dafty in Ireland finds his way in through the doorway of the Department of Agriculture and the industry of agriculture has one strange facet, that is, that every solicitor, every barrister, every professional man, every unemployed man, artisan or unskilled labourer thinks he can run every man's farm better than the farmer himself and at the same time none of them will welcome the arrival of a farmer to tell him how to run his business. Most Ministers for Agriculture spend much more of their time than they ought to be asked to spend handing off cranks, male and female. I can assure the Minister that, certainly from my side, he will receive all the support he wants in running the cranks out of the Department of Agriculture when they come in to infest it.

I fully sympathise with the Minister in the difficulties that confront him in connection with the arrest of the present epidemic of swine fever. It is certain that many of the Draconian steps he may deem it his duty to take will be unpopular. I want to assure him that so long as he proceeds with the circumspection and care that his reference to this matter suggests it is his intention to employ, he will receive the fullest support from this side of the House for such measures as it may be requisite to take to terminate this plague. I have noted he is not unconscious of the hardship that some of these measures may involve for people in the country and that his desire is to suspend them as soon as circumstances permit. With that assurance, I offer him the counter assurance that he may look to us for full support for whatever measures are requisite to control this matter.

I agree entirely with the Minister that it is right and reasonable that we should direct the attention of the British Government to the fact that if we are to continue to be one of Britain's most important European markets, it is essential to place our exports to Britain on a more long-term and secure basis than is the case at present. I want to say quite deliberately to him that when the 1948 Trade Agreement was negotiated, I am satisfied there was a clear collateral understanding that, over and above the written word of the agreement, our mutual purpose was to expand Irish agricultural exports to Great Britain.

It is undoubtedly true that the domestic policy of Great Britain, by the employment of heroic subsidies on domestic production, has operated to saturate the British market, for instance, in eggs up to the point where she is actually exporting eggs herself now. While it is no violation of the letter of the agreement, it seems a clear departure, to my mind, from the spirit of the agreement which envisaged there being a market for Irish eggs in Great Britain which has disappeared as a result of a domestic policy which has evoked, on a wholly uneconomic basis, a supply of eggs in Great Britain in excess of her home capacity to consume. It is neither our right, nor I feel sure our desire, to comment on or criticise or attempt to dictate domestic policy in Britain. However, we have an agreement in which both sides enjoy an advantage.

We have a mutual trade in which Great Britain enjoys very great advantages. We are entitled, I think, to emphasise what the Minister said here, that if we are to continue to be one of Britains most important European customers, it is essential to place our exports to Britain on a more long-term and secure basis than is the case at present. I entirely agree with the Minister when he goes on to say:—

"Our trade with some countries results in heavy imports and minimum exports. I am not at all satisfied with this state of affairs. Mutual trade should bring mutual benefit, otherwise it cannot continue."

In that connection, while fully sympathising with the difficulties of France, I think I am entitled to say that when the question arose of restricting her exports of cheese to this country— which was a matter to which she attached some importance although the monetary value may not have been very great—the Government of this country, with some considerable difficulty, preserved France's right to continue those exports to this country and continued to do so even in the light of formidable exchange problems with which we had to contend at the end of last year and at the beginning of this year. I am at a loss to understand how that attitude on our part is appropriately reciprocated by the recent French decision to exclude our lamb exports from France altogether.

I cannot believe that France can continue to claim the right to impose restrictions of that character without any prior consultation with us unless she is prepared to face the fact that there is a pretty wide range of exports in the sphere of wines and spirits, agricultural produce and horticultural produce to which Ireland must have regard if the principles referred to in that paragraph of the Minister's speech which speaks of mutual trade bringing mutual benefit are to be lived up to.

I have noted what the Minister says about the bovine tuberculosis position. I am fully aware of the difficulties there. I think the Minister would have done himself a service if he had perhaps been a little more frank with the House in that regard. There is not a doubt that in the country there are a good many people who are inclined to say: "What is all the delay about? Why do they not travel faster?" So far as I am aware, the principal limiting factor is the availability of veterinary staff. Is that not so? I think it is.

I understand the Department of Agriculture is at present busy about the task of substituting, in so far as is permissible, lay inspectors for certain work in the meat and bacon factories so as to release veterinary personnel for this essential work of the eradication of bovine tuberculosis. The Minister would be well advised to tell us more, though it may be that, inasmuch as it is his intention to introduce the Bovine Tuberculosis (Eradication) Bill to-morrow, possibly he prefers to reserve for that occasion a more detailed statement on this problem. If that is his purpose, I am quite prepared to wait for that occasion, too.

I direct the Minister's attention to the fact that recently there appeared in the Farmers' Weekly in Great Britain what appeared to me to be an extremely mischievous article upon which I felt it my duty to comment. Fortunately, it was not difficult to dispose of the nonsense that was written in that article. Anyone who understood the situation would know that the article was written for domestic consumption in Great Britain and that the writer was shaking his gory locks at Mr. Heathcoat Amory to warn him not to reduce the £450,000,000 in subsidy given to British farmers or this dreadful picture he drew of Ireland would manifest itself in Britain. I have considerable sympathy with somebody who wanted to shake his own gory locks at his own Minister for Agriculture and particularly at his own Minister for Finance in Britain but I did not think it fortunate he should have chosen Ireland as the horrible example which he wanted to hold out to Mr. Heathcoat Amory in order to chasten him for any bad thoughts he might have about the subsidies in Great Britain.

The burden of the article was that there was no progress being made in Ireland with the eradication of bovine tuberculosis. That is wrong. That is untrue but I think we have got to do more than we have been doing. If we have got the staff the country is prepared to accept a more radical approach than that which we have been pursuing heretofore. I think, since we have got the staff, we ought to deal with the counties mentioned in the Minister's statement on the same basis as we propose to deal with Sligo and Clare. We ought to go all out now to eradicate every reactor in these counties.

I frankly wonder what we are going to do when we tackle Limerick, east Tipperary and north Cork. I think that is something the Minister will have to consider and try to make up his mind about at an early date. The incidence of reactors amongst cows in that area is running between 40 per cent. or 50 per cent. It has to be faced but I think the Minister would want time to formulate the plan for that. I think he ought to be somewhat more explicit if his intention is to deal with this matter in greater detail when introducing the Bill about bovine tuberculosis. Could the Minister say whether it is to-morrow that the Bovine Tuberculosis Bill will be introduced.

Mr. Moylan

Yes.

I would ask him to deal with this problem in greater detail and perhaps communicate to the country a greater sense of urgency in regard to it which I have no doubt whatever he himself feels but perhaps he underestimates the readiness of the country for a radical approach in regard to this matter. I want to assure him in that case that he is guaranteed the support of this House for such measures as he deems it expedient to take and he need have no fears that any complaints which may arise will be inflated from this side of the House or that factious criticism will be directed against him in connection with this urgent work.

Would the Deputy give way and allow the Taoiseach to make a statement?

I will, provided it will not raise my dander.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
Barr
Roinn