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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 26 Feb 1959

Vol. 173 No. 2

Committee on Finance. - Vote 15—Commissions and Special Inquiries.

I move:—

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £2,500 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1959, for the Salaries and Expenses of Commissions, Committees and Special Inquiries.

The purpose of the Supplementary Estimate is to provide for the Television Commission which was not established when the Estimate for the Vote for Commission and Special Inquiries 1958-59 was being prepared.

The provision of £4,400 for the expenses of the Television Commission arises mainly out of visits abroad by members of the commission to study the operation of television programmes in certain foreign countries. Groups of 12 members have already visited London, Glasgow, Manchester and also centres in Belgium, Holland and Switzerland. A small group will shortly visit selected centres in the United States and Canada. Allowing for savings estimated at £1,900 on other sub-heads of the Vote the sum now required to be voted is £2,500.

I just want to ask the Minister on this Supplementary Estimate if it is clearly understood that no commitments concerning the establishment of a television service will be undertaken here before the publication and discussion of the report of the Television Commission. As I understand it the procedure which has been followed concerning this commission is to some extent different from that followed in other cases of commissions established by the Government. Generally, commissions consider whatever particular question is referred to them and take evidence from interested parties. In this case, I understand that definite commercial proposals have been put to the commission by interested parties. In view of that somewhat unusual procedure, I should like the Minister to assure the House that no commitments will be undertaken before the Dáil has a full opportunity of considering and debating the proposals.

I feel that that would be a matter for another Minister. The Supplementary Estimate deals with the travelling and incidental expenses of the Television Commission. The question of policy does not arise.

I appreciate that, but this is the only opportunity on which this matter has come before the House and I have one or two other questions, if I may put them to the Minister. I wonder if a site for a television station has been purchased by the Government and, furthermore, can the Minister indicate on what lines, if any, it is proposed that this service shall operate? There has been a great deal of speculation on this matter in the Press and elsewhere. There have been some rumours. I believe it is desirable that the Minister should allay public anxiety and inform the House on the matter so that the public may understand the position.

I understood from the Minister's statement that he referred to the countries the commission had visited and that he furnished the names of the countries which the commission propose to visit.

I should like to ask the Minister a couple of questions, if he has the information at his disposal. £9,500 is a formidable sum in expenses for a commission that has been in operation for less than 12 months. Perhaps the Minister——

Four and a half thousand.

Perhaps I have not read this properly. That has been spent to date?

In the last year, yes.

It is the total required, in any case, for the expenses.

That would be for all the commissions.

All commissions? I am sorry. That disposes of one of my questions, because the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs said yesterday that the total that would be required for the Television Commission would be in the region of £5,000. I was going to ask the Minister to reconcile that with the figure of £9,500. It is now proposed to send members of the Television Commission to the United States of America. I am not an expert on television, and I am sure the Minister is not either, but did the Government, or the Minister, not consider the possibility of inviting some television experts from the United States of America to come here to give evidence before the commission, rather than to send three, or four, or half a dozen people to the United States, at a probable cost of £1,500 or £2,000? Perhaps the Minister would comment on that.

This Estimate provides the expenses of persons visiting various places and the Minister mentioned London, Glasgow, Belgium and Holland. As far as I know, these are not all technical people; they come from various walks of life and they are considering this matter from various points of view. In view of the various activities taking place within the country in anticipation of a television service being provided, such as people putting forward proposals and suggestions and so forth, I wonder if the Minister can say whether or not a time limit has been placed in respect of the report which is to come back here from this commission set up to examine and report on the possibility of providing a television service. I consider that it is very important to have a time limit on the activities of this group because we have seen, even in the past ten years, the changes which have taken place in connection with television technique and while the members are visiting various countries now and intend visiting the United States of America the position may have changed considerably in a few years' time. That is why I think we ought to have a report soon and a time limit imposed, so far as the report is concerned.

I assume that these people have been given terms of reference which will form the basis of the report which they will submit to the Government. We know that owing to the small population here, a very limited service could be given, and it is probable that private enterprise and commercial interests would be required to play a big part in the provision of a service. For these reasons, I feel we should have a time limit on the submission of the report so that the various interests will know where they stand and the country will have a decision regarding the provision of a television service.

There is a general feeling that the country cannot afford to have a television service provided by our own Government, at the expense of the citizens and taxpayers, and we should know as soon as possible whether or not it will be possible to provide a service according to present standards. We have seen from the international television services the vast amount of material required, within any given space of time, to provide a service and possibly when we receive this report, we will find that the country could afford only a service of one or two hours per day, having regard to the colossal expense involved in setting up a service.

Deputy Cosgrave asked if there would be any commitment by the commission before their report. I cannot say no definitely, but the commitment which will be entered into will be very small and only in connection with an option on a site which was considered advisable, as far as the commission was concerned. I do not say that the Government have agreed with that, but they have been asked to do it and if they do it, it will only be a matter of a small amount. It will be so small that it will not commit the Dáil to the point that we must go ahead with the matter. I can assure the Deputy of that.

Deputy Corish asked if, instead of paying the expenses of some members of the commission to America and Canada, it would not be better for experts to come across to this country. I think experts did come across. It is an extremely difficult matter. No Minister for Finance likes incurring or sanctioning expenditure of this kind, if he has a feeling that it is going to create a precedent for future commissions. On the other hand, we must remember that members of commissions give a great deal of their time free and give good advice, generally speaking, to the Government. For that reason, we cannot be too parsimonious if asked for a concession, or expenses, of this kind, this being a matter where the very latest information might be advisable. I must say that after consideration I was induced to agree that they should get these expenses.

I was also assured that that would not delay the report. As a matter of fact, they have made good progress in their deliberations and they expect, I believe, to present a report in the course of a couple of months. On the whole, therefore, I think they have worked hard in getting all this evidence and in making progress with the preparation of their report. They expect, when they get this additional information which they feel is necessary, by three of the members going to the United States of America and Canada, that the report will be completed in a very short time.

Leaving aside the option, can the Minister say whether it is understood that no commitments in respect of proposed services will be undertaken before the House has an opportunity of considering the report?

No. The Deputy will remember that the terms of reference were that there should be no cost to the State, either capital or running costs, and I think the commission realise that in presenting their report they must report on these lines.

Quite, but leaving that aside, there will be no commitment, say, in respect of affording a facility to "A" as against "B"?

No, I do not think so. What the commission will say is: "We are of opinion that A, B, C, or D would be suitable, but it is for you to decide."

Vote put and agreed to.
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