Vol. 176 No. 11
I move:—
That a sum not exceeding £6,000 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1960, for the Salaries and Expenses of Commissions, Committees and Special Inquiries.
How many of these commissions and special inquiries are now functioning?
Some of them are there for a long time such as the Civil Service Arbitration Board, the Metric System and Decimal Coinage Commission and the Teachers' Arbitration Board.
Where do we find the Metric System and Decimal Coinage Commission? I know there is such a Commission but I cannot find it on page 56 or 57.
I moved the vote for the expenses of Commissions and Special Inquiries.
Is it in the volume of Estimates?
Yes, No. 15.
I have that and I see in it the Arbitration Board, the Savings Committee, the Workmen's Compensation Commission, The Income Tax Commission and the Commission on Teachers' Salaries but where are the others?
Sub-head H—not otherwise provided for.
How much does the Commission on the Metric System cost? What is the estimate for the coming year?
I could not say. These Commissions include those on the Teachers Arbitration, Workmen's Compensation, the Savings Committee, Income Tax and the Capital Advisory Commission.
I thought that was wound up.
They have not been dismissed. They are available if they are required again. There is also the committee on accommodation in the constituent colleges of the National University of Ireland.
How much?
I have not got the amount.
They have finished.
They have practically finished. We have got the final report. There is also the Tribunal of Inquiry into Cross-Channel Freight Rates, Coimisiún na Gaeilge and the Teachers' Salary Commission.
I want to raise a point in relation to sub-head B. I raised it on the Estimates for the Department of Posts and Telegraphs and I was told that they act only as agents for the Minister for Finance. I refer to the Savings Committee and to the fact that the record over the past 18 months in regard to savings is very, very far from being a happy one. The figures published by the Minister show that there was a drop of approximately 25 per cent. in 1958 compared with 1957. They were down from £60,000,000 to about £45,000,000.
When we come to the Department of Posts and Telegraphs we find the drop in relation to small savings is particularly noticeable and it is in relation to small savings that the Savings Committee does its most valuable work. Is the impression that I get correct? That impression is that the Minister is trying to kill, by inaction, the Savings Committee, that he does not want the committee to go on with the job for which it was appointed and that it is being allowed more or less to drift out of operation. I should like to see, on the contrary, an energetic savings drive but in this Estimate the amount has been almost halved of the small expenses in relation to the Savings Committee. If that is so, it must mean the Minister does not intend the Savings Committee to undertake any drive for savings during the current year and that it is merely a trifling service here. That is a mistake and it is a retrograde policy, going back on the principle that was adopted.
I should not like the Deputy to come to the conclusion that I am in any way trying to kill this Committee. I have done everything I could to encourage the Committee to go on with the very good work they were doing. The Deputy will be aware that there were some changes made due to resignations. They were not made by me. We had to replace certain people. I remember one of them saying to me: "It is very difficult to carry on after a year because your ideas run out and you are full of frustration when you cannot think of anything else." I have great sympathy for these people. They have worked very hard and have achieved very good results. The first five months this year are very encouraging. We have got more money in from the two sources of the savings bank and savings certificates for the first five months this year than in 1957 or 1958. 1958 was a bad year generally for savings. We know from the returns that farmers' incomes were very much down in 1958. I would be very sorry indeed that anyone should get the idea that I had not the greatest admiration for their work or was not prepared to give them every encouragement.
When the Minister talks of the figure for the first five months of this year being up, is that because there was not an issue in the first five months this year and there was an issue in either of the other years with which he is making the comparison? I think that is the answer.
There was an issue for C.I.E. this year.
A £3,000,000 issue. A C.I.E. issue is hardly one that would appeal to small savers anyway.
Was there any issue last year?
There was one in 1957.
Under what Vote are we paying the expenses of the Television Commission?
I think we are paying it under subhead H.
In this Vote, yes.
From what the Minister read out I suggest he is wrong. The Vote for last year was £2,500 and for this year £2,100. The Television Report, according to itself, cost £5,800, more than is provided for both years.
As the Deputy knows, there are voluminous reports which have been printed.
We have already got the Television Commission's Report and it says the expenses incurred in the preparation of the Report, and so on. amount to £5,860. It could not be under H because H for both years does not amount to £4,600.
The incidental expenses of the Commission are borne on this, that is, travelling expenses of the members of the Commission and subsistence allowances are paid, but printing is on the Stationery Office Vote.
One hundred and ten pounds only.
Whatever relates to printing would come under Stationery.
£5,860 is the full tot given.
For printing?
No, £110 is for printing. Where is the £5,750 carried?
Some of it was carried last year on this Vote.
It could not be. If it was all absorbed by the Television Commission it would be only £4,600 and the Television Commission gives a sum of £5,750.
I presume a great deal of that would come into next year's Estimate, not this year's.
But the Report is already printed. We have the document and it says that its production cost £5,860 of which £110 was for printing. That leaves £5,750. Where are the expenses of the Commission? You cannot be postponing that until 1960-61 surely.
Anything that was incurred since the 1st April.
Would it be 1959-60?
That is only £2,100.
Anything incurred before 31st March, of course, was in last year's Vote.
Yes, but this was May, 1959.
They have given all the expenses there which were incurred last year and this year.
You add this last year and this year and it is still less than the cost——
And there are other Commissions to be paid for.
There are other Votes like Stationery which carry part of it.
