He does not know. That is quite true, but even at that we pinned him down a few times to the extent that he said: "I will find out if I can", and to give him his due, he gave the information in this House in so far as it was available or in so far as it was possible for his officials to obtain it from the particular State body or semi-State body. I want to see that established in this House. I am not looking for it personally. It is the right of every Deputy that information of this nature should be disclosed through the House and the Minister is not doing himself or the House justice by giving the type of reply he gave here today.
With regard to Telefís Éireann, I postpone any comments I would make until I am familiar with it as a viewer, which I am not at the moment. However, I listen quite frequently to the other outfit, Radio Éireann, and all I can say is that I am very grateful there are so many other stations, so that I can get long wave stations and hundreds of stations on the medium wave just by twisting the knob. Therefore, when a licence fee is paid by a member of the public, he has a good choice. I hope that choice will be available also at the television end of the service.
The Minister will, I presume, tell me that he has no function in regard to the system of appointment in Radio Éireann. There is in American politics what is known as the pork barrel, and I understand that American Senators are always very anxious to get an arm or two arms into this pork barrel, not alone up as far as their elbows but as far as their shoulders. I believe we have a similar little pork barrel here in Ireland in Radio Éireann. It is a mystery to me how the various appointments are made. Of course we are told about the appointment of announcers but I am not concerned with the announcers. I am concerned with the people who work in the background, with the people who invite their pals to come along and give a show. It is like the old story: they bring their friends and their friends' friends too.
I do not know what the qualifications of many of the people are who get quite substantial fees in Radio Éireann for various programmes. The same voices, the same type of programmes are on regularly. It would appear that a change of a substantial kind is the last thing any of these people would consider. There is the position that Mr. X is appointed to a certain post in Radio Éireann. What do we find? It is like Parkinson's Law: within a very short space of time, Mr. X has his friends Y and Z in to help.
Of my own knowledge, I do not know of any interviews held, unless they are held by Mr. X when he interviews his own friends for particular posts or in relation to particular matters for broadcasting. It may be said that it is a very difficult thing to have proper supervision in a body of this kind because one is dealing to a great extent with artists, but I am not referring specifically to artists. I am not referring to variety programmes, to singers, or such persons. I am referring, in the main, to those people who take part in discussions and talks, and who give lectures of various kinds on Radio Éireann. I think there should be a great deal more examination into the qualifications of these people and into the basis on which, as I have said, Mr. X can pick Mr. Y and Mr. Z to take part in certain programmes.
I find it very difficult to deal with this matter here because I do not want to mention names. However, commenting on the matter here may have the desired result. The Minister should enquire himself in the hope that—I know he will say he has no responsibility — the position will be rectified; very often the fact that a matter is aired in this House has the necessary warning effect in the proper quarters.
Leaving that aside for the moment. I mentioned discussions, lectures and debates that take place on Radio Éireann. I should like to say that, as a result of discussions I have had with members of the public, the public generally are not a bit impressed by many of the discussions that take place. In many of them, there is an air of artificiality. In addition to that, there is no "bite", if I may use that word, in the discussions themselves. There is no real controversy. If ever there is a danger of controversy, a danger of a good brisk argument developing, the whole thing is smoothed over. It is a most insipid performance. I do not think the public are so delicate that they cannot take a lively argument on the air. They listen in to other programmes on different foreign stations. On those, we find most thought-provoking discussions taking place regularly.
The discussions on Radio Éireann are to a great extent one-sided or, if they are not one-sided, the protagonists on the other side have no standing of any description, no responsibility to the public in many cases and, therefore, as far as carrying weight is concerned, or putting a bit of life into the discussion, it just is not there. In mentioning this, I have in mind in particular those occasions when politicians are on the radio. If there is to be a discussion with members of political Parties, then it should be a discussion between members of political Parties, holding different political views. Anybody who can be described as non-political should not be put into the arena as an alleged representative of another point of view. Time and time again, that has happened on Radio Éireann.
The Minister, I am sure, will tell me that he has no responsibility for the programme. Let me put this to him: I insist that in programmes which should be conducted in a neutral fashion, in which there should be no such thing as a decision weighted on one side before ever the discussion takes place, the debate should be completely open and completely free. Such debates are very rare, in my opinion, on Radio Éireann. The fault can be laid to a great extent at the feet of the people who are in that body. Some of them are the most conservative people under the sun; some of them have a very Tory outlook. But we must also take into consideration that in that body, as in every other key body in the State, we have people who can only be described as holding very strong communist views. Indeed, I believe that in a body such as the body that controls Radio Éireann, and other State bodies, there are communists.
These are the very people who, in planning programmes, always ensure that the Government Party gets the most favourable treatment. The mentality of these people is that they are not anxious to have a socialist point of view or a Left Wing point of view. They want the two extremes. They want the Government side put, so that, if anything happens in this country, anarchy will result and the viewpoint they expressed will take over, but not, I may say, in a democratic fashion. The Minister has these two elements in Radio Éireann. I am sure others will be able to talk about Telefís Éireann.
These people are doing the Minister no service. It may be all right for him to suggest he has no responsibility, but, if he has no responsibility, then he is giving a very free run to people who will ultimately misuse him. If there is one thing we should have in a democratic state, it is a fair opportunity for all sections of the public to put their views on the radio and on television. As far as Radio Éireann is concerned, I am quite sure the dice is loaded. I do not suppose what I have said will worry the Minister very much but, at least, I have mentioned it.
The third point I want to deal with is the provision of telephones. There is a long delay in the provision of telephones. I hope that the Minister will, so far as he can, give priority in the provision of telephones to the rural areas. There is no doubt in the world that strong pressure will be brought to bear by businessmen, company directors, people with little offices stuck in a hole in the wall, to see that their businesses get priority. While I have the utmost sympathy with anybody who has an application in for a telephone, in the circumstances I think the Minister should give priority to the rural areas.
There it is not just a matter of a social amenity. Very often in the city, a matter can be dealt with by a little exercise, a little walk, apart altogether from the threepenny stamp. Very often a little exercise might be good for these people. A little walk into the next street might be much more beneficial than using a telephone to communicate with another businessman. In rural areas, where the farming community now need such a service, delays in installation are much too long to be excused. I have had to approach the Minister's Department on a number of occasions about the provision of telephones. Like all Deputies, I was received with the utmost courtesy and my wrath was turned away. I could not criticise the Minister or his officials because of the way I was met. At the same time, the phones did not materialise in the cases about which I made representation.
I would urge on the Minister that wherever possible priority should be given to people in the rural areas providing a service to the community. I give as an example the case of a constituent of mine who is a garage proprietor. He serves practically an entire parish so far as the repair and maintenance of tractors are concerned. He has to go nearly three-quarters of a mile to the nearest post office to make his calls, and at times there are delays of half an hour in making a call to a place 15 miles away. It means he has to leave his business, go to the post office and wait, perhaps, an hour or an hour and a half to do his business. That man is providing a first-class service for the farmers in the area. His application for a phone is now in at least 15 months. In the circumstances, the Minister will agree with me that 15 months is the maximum any man in his position should have to wait.
I know the arguments that have been put forward about overloading and so forth. However, I do not think that applies in any rural area. Another difficulty put forward is the great damage which was done by last winter's storms. The gangs were said to be fully occupied repairing storm damage and were now only resuming installation work at the stage they had reached last October. I should like the Minister to let us know if the question of overloading is involved, so far as the rural areas are concerned. I hope that these gangs, which are doing excellent work, will be put to dealing with applications of the nature I have mentioned.
