Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 14 Mar 1963

Vol. 200 No. 9

Committee on Finance - Vote 32—Secondary Education.

Dr. Hillery

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £360,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1963, for Secondary Education, including the Teachers' Salaries Grant, Capitation Grant, Incremental Salary to Secondary Teachers and Grant to the Secondary Teachers' Pension Fund.

This is required to meet the cost of increases in the incremental salaries for recognised secondary teachers which were accorded with effect from 31st November, 1961, and which arose from the implementation of the report of the Arbitration Board for Secondary Teachers which met on 23rd of February and 2nd March, 1962, and whose findings were approved by the Government. The extra provision required in subhead B.1 for 1962-63 as a result of the payment of these increases alone is estimated at £360,000. It is not anticipated that there will be any appreciable net savings in other subheads of the Vote.

Mr. P. O'Donnell

These additional sums are required for increased salaries voted throughout the year and we have, of course, no objection to them. On the question of salary, I cannot understand why the Government will not recognise the teaching service of secondary teachers who have to teach in the Six Counties for a number of years, pending the procuring of appointments here. That is something the Minister should do. I know teaching service in certain other countries is recognised when it comes to calculating incremental and pension rights. I do not see why teachers who have been compelled to teach in the Six Counties—a part of this country— for a number of years before they get permanent appointments here should not have those years considered for incremental and pension purposes. It may be that the Minister has some scheme whereby he will give this recognition. If he has, I would certainly welcome it.

Mr. O'Sullivan

I hope I am relevant in raising this. It is in regard to a communication we received from the Minister at Cork County Council regarding the council's recommendations in relation to scholarships. The Minister's reply included an allegation that Cork County Council was remiss in the amount it was voting in its estimates for the provision of such scholarships. He referred to the fact that it was the lowest in the country. This was an entirely unfair suggestion in as much as the income from the levy of a certain amount of money in the £ in Cork is capable of bringing in much more than in many other counties. I saw the Minister casting his eyes behind him to see how many Cork Deputies were there, but the 2.20 p.m. train has relieved him of the support I would get from Deputy MacCarthy, Deputy Corry and others who objected as strongly as I did to the fact that this was set before us as a stigma on the efforts of the county council in regard to the provision of scholarships for secondary education.

An Ceann Comhairle

I do not know if the Deputy can tie up scholarships with teacher's salaries and grants.

Mr. O'Sullivan

The wishes of the council were not met by the Minister in regard to the recognition of particular schools for these scholarships. However, I accept your ruling, Sir, that it may not be quite relevant on this Estimate.

Mr. Dillon

I was in correspondence with the Department in the recent past about the payment of some pensions to secondary teachers which were still outstanding. I wonder has that matter been resolved? I think there was some award made of an increase to secondary teachers and that there has been some delay in its payment. Some of these are very elderly people. If they do not get their payment soon, some of them may have been called to their reward before they get it. In any event, having elderly people waiting in uncertainty for the actual award of what they believe to be their due is not a happy situation.

Dr. Hillery

As far as I know, the last time the Deputy asked me that was at Question Time a few weeks ago. The information I had then was that it would be made within the month. I have not heard anything to the contrary since. I expect the problem of those pensions will be solved this month.

The question of the recognition of teaching service has been brought up very often. In answer to a Parliamentary Question recently, I said I hoped to be able to do something about the matter of teaching experience in the North. I still have those hopes. We will try to work out a scheme.

Mr. P. O'Donnell

I hope their hopes will not be dashed by the Minister's hopes.

Dr. Hillery

In conclusion, I think the Cork people came around to my way of thinking.

Mr. O'Sullivan

They were forced by a pistol to their heads.

Vote put and agreed to.