It is proposed to take business in the following order. Nos. 1, 2, 3, 13, Vote 42, No. 7 to be taken in conjunction with No. 13. Vote 42, Nos. 14, 15, 16, 17, 10, 11, 20. It is agreed that the House will sit after 5 p.m. and not later than 10.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
Are we sitting tomorrow?
On the assumption that the business ordered will not be concluded by 10.30 p.m., it is proposed to meet at 10.30 a.m. tomorrow to dispose of the remaining business. This is the business for the rest of the session.
Will I now be given an opportunity, a Cheann Comhairle, any time you like to answer the allegations of Deputy O.J. Flanagan yesterday? I am prepared to show that they are infamous lies.
The Deputy will please sit down. The Deputy did not give me any notice that he intended to raise a matter——
I was late but——
He did not give me any notice and therefore I cannot allow him to raise it now.
I will give you the notice in a few minutes.
Notice must be given to me before the Dáil assembles so that I may have some idea of what the Deputy proposes to raise.
Is the Deputy not entitled to raise it on the Order of Business?
Any time I get an opportunity to answer Deputy Flanagan's allegations last night will do. They were serious allegations; they were lies and I want to prove they were lies.
The Deputy did not give me any notice and I cannot allow him to raise the matter in this manner.
You will not allow me to raise it but others can get away with murder. I shall approach you in the morning.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Flanagan created the whole row for that reason.
(Interruptions.)
I shall not allow the House to be turned into a bear garden.
On the Order of Business, I gave notice that I proposed to raise the question of the proceedings here last night and the statement made by Deputy J. Leneghan to the effect that he was offered £5,000 for his vote. I asked the Leas-Cheann Comhairle what action, if any, he proposed to take in view of the serious situation raised in regard to the standing of this House. Nobody in this House, I am sure, suggests that it should be a wishy-washy debating society and nobody dislikes the idea of hard exchanges across the House but I think all Deputies should——
Why should this Deputy be allowed to make a speech?
The Deputy should come to the point.
The Chair made Deputy Sherwin sit down.
(Interruptions.)
Why is this Deputy being allowed to make a statement when the other Deputy was not allowed?
He made Deputy Sherwin and myself sit down.
I was offered the mayoralty——
May I make a statement?
Would Deputy Carroll sit down?
A Deputy
Deputy Carroll wants to speak. He is as much entitled to speak as Deputy McQuillan.
Deputy McQuillan gave me notice he intended to raise this matter.
There will be murder here until I get an opportunity of speaking on this matter. No murderers will accuse me. I was a witness of two murders committed of pals of mine——
The allegations made last night were made in the course of a very heated debate in which various disorderly remarks were thrown across the floor of the House from each side. In these circumstances, I do not think the initiation of special action is called for from the Chair.
When you talk about "each side," I hope you are not including the Labour Party.
We were not involved.
I want to say——
Deputy Carroll did not give me any notice he intended to raise any matter.
I am not raising any matter. On the Order of Business, I am bringing the matter before you. I did not throw any muck across the House. Am I entitled to bring a matter before you?
That is not a point of order. What is the matter?
The matter is that Independents have been slandered.
That is not a matter for the Order of Business.
Of course it is. You conduct business.
And you allowed allegations to be made against me.
The Deputy is entitled to rebut the allegations but he must conduct himself.
That dirtbird down there will not get away with the allegations he made against me.
The Deputy will withdraw that word.
I withdraw it. I was a witness of two murders. They took Noel Lemass into the mountains and bumped him off—riddled him with bullets. They crippled me and now say I have a pension. Deputy MacEoin has three pensions.
Deputy Sherwin will conduct himself or leave the House or I will ask the House to pronounce judgment on his actions.
He has three pensions.
Arising out of the matter mentioned by Deputy McQuillan, there is, of course, no truth in the suggestion that any bribe was offered by any member of the Fine Gael Party.
Is Deputy Dillon entitled to make a statement when other Deputies who were slandered are not entitled to speak?
If any such allegations are to be made—
Deputies
Chair.
The Garda authorities are there and information of a criminal character should be made known to them for appropriate inquiry by the appropriate authority.
Deputies
Chair.
Deputy Dillon is making a point that an inquiry should be held into the matter.
That it should be left to the Garda authorities.
(Interruptions.)
May I make a point? You allowed Deputy Dillon to make one.
What is the point?
Are you going to sit there in that chair with all the privileges that go with it and allow people in this House to be slandered?
If the House so desires, this matter may be referred to the Committee on Proceedure and Privilege.
I will shame that gang over there. They butchered me and left me crippled for 40 years and now they say I have a pension. Deputy MacEoin has three pensions and he is not any worse than I am.
Do I understand that this matter may go to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges?
That is, if the House desires.
What is going?
Whether Deputy Leneghan was offered a bribe. Let us inquire into that.
If there is any reference to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, the reference should be in relation to the allegation of bribery made first in this House by Deputy Oliver Flanagan.
May I read out exactly what is the point? This is the matter which requires to be brought before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I quote from the debate last night:
Surely the Minister for Finance heard the rumours afloat in this city that both Deputy Sherwin and Deputy Leneghan got £3,500 cash for their votes. That is the rumour in this city and I want the Minister to tell the House if——
It was £5,000.
Deputies
Chair.
I suggest that what should be referred to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges is the matter of the interruptions and irregularities that occurred last night.
Might I suggest that, as the Deputy who wished to rise in the House and make a statement regarding allegations affecting himself was debarred from doing so today on the ground that he did not give notice, he be allowed to do so tomorrow, having now given notice?
Do not run away from Deputy Leneghan. We want to know who offered Deputy Leneghan £5,000.
May we take it the House is agreeable to allow this matter which I raised to go before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges?
The Chair has ruled on it.
There is another more serious matter.
There is no motion before the House.
No. They do not want an inquiry.
Do I understand that this matter affecting Deputy Leneghan is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges?
I said that if the House so desired, it could submit the matter.
May I submit that charges have been made in this House and I am asking the Taoiseach, the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the Labour Party——
The Deputy is making a statement.
—that these charges be submitted to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
The Deputy may appear before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and make a statement there.
Every time I stand up to speak, you ignore me.
He can go before the Committee and make a statement there.
Can it go before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges?
If the House so desires.
Will you put it to the House?
The Ceann Comhairle has indicated that if the House so wishes, this matter can be put before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. The Taoiseach has pointed out that there is no motion to that effect before the House. I suggest, therefore, in order that we may get on with the business for which we were sent here, that you would tell us how this can be done. Does it need a motion by the Taoiseach? What method is there for referring this to the Committee?
I will take a motion.
Before you do so, I want to submit that certain Deputies, Deputy Leneghan and Deputy Sherwin, allege they were slandered in a statement made by another Deputy here yesterday. They sought an opportunity to which they are entitled of making a statement in rebuttal of these allegations, but they were refused on the ground they did not give notice. If they give notice of their intention to make a statement tomorrow, I suggest they be allowed to do so tomorrow and any motion consequent on their statement can then be dealt with.
That is fair enough.
I want to make a further submission. I believe it is perfectly proper and I find myself entirely in agreement with the Taoiseach that if Deputies wish to make a statement of personal explanation, on giving you due notice, they should be afforded the opportunity. That being so, may I also stress a point in regard to statements made in this House to the effect that a criminal offence has been committed. It ought to be made clear that a Deputy who alleges he has been offered a bribe has a public duty to give his information to the Garda authorities so that the law may be set in motion.
Deputy Oliver Flanagan raised this matter.
(Interruptions.)
On a point of order, could I know from the Taoiseach whether he proposes to move in his own name that this matter that has been discussed be referred to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
I am not prepared to answer that question now.
Could I ask the Taoiseach if he proposes to do that?
I am not over-impressed with Deputy McQuillan's desire for order in the House. It will be dealt with on the initiative of those Deputies who are directly concerned.
Surely the House is directly concerned in it. It shocked me.