Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 26 Feb 1964

Vol. 207 No. 12

Adjournment Debate. - Laois County Council Post.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

On Tuesday, 18th February in Question No. 36 on the Order Paper, I asked the Minister for Local Government:

If he is aware that the September, 1963 monthly meeting of Laois County Council gave authority to the county manager to make a clerical appointment in the motor taxation office; that the county manager then decided to create a new post of staff officer in the Motor Taxation Department; that this post was not advertised; and that no opportunity was given to existing members of the county council staff to apply for it; why this position was not advertised; if he will state the method by which it was filled; if he is aware that the county secretary has informed members of the Council that the Minister is aware of all the circumstances surrounding this appointment; and if he will make a general statement on the matter.

I raise this in all sincerity and not for the purpose of causing the Minister any political embarrassment. I would not do so and I am not doing so now. I am raising the question solely to elicit information because this appointment is a departure from all other appointments made in the county and one which calls for an explanation. I raise the matter now in the hope that the Minister and those of his Party who are present will be able to discuss the matter in a cool, calm atmosphere. I do not intend to arouse the Minister's anger in any way but I want to ask him to explain to the House and the country, and particularly to the county in which the incident occurred, why there was this extraordinary departure in the making of this appointment.

The Minister in his reply stated that:

The Laois County Council's proposal for the creation of an additional office of staff officer in the motor taxation office was sanctioned by me on 6th December, 1963. It was stated that the county council at their meeting of 30th September, 1963, had consented to the creation of the additional office.

That is not so. Laois County Council, on 30th September, at its monthly meeting, first heard of this matter when there was a notice on the agenda asking the council to provide extra clerical assistance in the motor taxation office. There was no question whatever, and no indication was given by the county manager, that a staff officer was to be appointed. It was clearly stated that owing to the volume of work in the motor tax office, another official was necessary to cope with the increase. At the same meeting, I proposed that the necessary consent be given to the appointment of a clerical assistant in accordance with what appeared on the agenda and that proposal was passed unanimously. At no time was there mention of a staff officer.

At the October meeting of the county council, the minutes of the September meeting were signed, unobserved by the members, stating that the resolution referred to the appointment of a staff official and not a clerical assistant, as was indicated in the resolution on the agenda of the previous meeting, and which was passed unanimously by the county council. Shortly afterwards, a member of Laois County Council, Councillor Keenan, directed the attention of the chairman of the council to this inaccuracy. At the monthly meeting held in January, the same councillor asked the county manager if the post was to be advertised, or when it would be advertised, in view of the fact that a similar post in Offaly had been advertised by the Offaly County Council. The county manager replied that it was not his intention to advertise the post. He was asked why, and he made no answer. The members of the county council made inquiries to find out what happened and we discovered that an appointment had been made by the county manager. We inquired who the successful appointee was and it gave us grounds for extreme suspicion.

This appointment led to my question and to this Adjournment Debate. I want to point out that the county manager,when asked why he appointed this person, stated that there was a competition held in August, 1963, and that as a result of that competition, the appointment was made. I want to ask the Minister for Local Government whom the Minister or the county manager thinks is being fooled when they tell us that a competition was held in August and a man appointed from that competition when it was only on 30th September that Laois County Council decided to create the post and make the appointment. As there has been no explanation from the Minister or from the county manager, I say this appointment is wrong; it "stinks" and it is a bad appointment. I am not criticising the person appointed but the method of appointment, which is wrong. Everyone will agree that what happened in Laois may happen in any of the other counties if this procedure is not stopped right away. It is a bad system.

The county manager went on to tell the council that there was a competition in June, 1963, for a position as staff officer in the accounts section of the department and that it was confined to all the officials of the Laois County Council, but none of the people, not a single one, qualified in the June examination. One of the candidates who sat for that examination sat a month later for a competition open to all Ireland and gained first place and has been appointed staff officer in Donegal County Council. Was it not very strange that a competition was held in Laois amongst the staff and none of them qualified, but then one of the entrants went in for an examination open to all Ireland and gained first place?

That calls for an explanation. The serious part of this entire matter is how lightly the Minister and the county manager have taken it. I understand that some members of the Laois County Council staff felt they were qualified for promotion but had been overlooked. Their trade union is dealing with that and looking into the matter. The duty of a county manager is to cater fairly and fully for the staff under him and to create an atmosphere of goodwill and co-operation. Is it to be generally accepted that all future appointments in this State are to be made secretly and behind closed doors and no opportunity given to people, no matter how highly qualified they may be, to apply?

There is still a more serious aspect. It has now come to the ears of the members of the county council that this new staff officer appointed for the motor taxation department is now, in addition, to be given full charge of the electoral list and the compiling of the register. That is another function that has been handed over and now comes within the ambit of the county council. This is the most serious part of it. We have this appointment secretly made, without being advertised, without reason being given for it, and now we find that, in addition to the motor taxation post, he has been appointed to control the compiling of the electors list. He is a very useful official for any political Party to have on their side, or for any Fianna Fáil Deputy to have, or for any political organisation to have. That is why I say this matter is very serious. There is a growing tendency to allow appointments of this kind to go unnoticed and that is why I asked the Minister to make a statement why the county manager, from behind closed doors, appointed the cousin of a Fianna Fáil Deputy to the post.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. P.J. Burke

May I say that you are always——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Lalor.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Deputy Lynch has offered. I have given him five minutes of my time.

Mr. Blaney

He did not offer.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Lalor offered and he is a Deputy for the constituency.

Mr. P.J. Burke

If Deputy Flanagan can injure anybody, he will do it.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

You got your son a job in Telefís Éireann.

Mr. P.J. Burke

Repeat that outside the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

Order.

Mr. P.J. Burke

May I say this?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, the Deputy——

Mr. P.J. Burke

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will resume his seat.

Mr. P.J. Burke

I will, for you, Sir. I just want to ask will Deputy Flanagan repeat that outside the House?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Burke is wasting the time of the House. There are only five or ten minutes at the most left.

Mr. P.J. Burke

I cannot let the slander pass.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Do you deny it?

Mr. P.J. Burke

He got it on his own merit.

An Ceann Comhairle

I shall have to ask Deputy Burke to leave the House if he persists.

Mr. P.J. Burke

You have taken advantage to slander decent people. That is what you have been doing all your life. You will not repeat it outside the House where people can take an action against you. The Deputy is a coward.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Do you deny that he has it?

An Ceann Comhairle

I shall have to ask Deputy Burke to leave the House if he persists.

Mr. P.J. Burke

Very good; I never transgress the rules of courtesy in the House, and I am very sorry.

Mr. Lalor

It is quite evident that this matter which has been raised by Deputy Flanagan, despite what he said originally, is a typical attempt by him to slander me as a Fianna Fáil Deputy and one of the representatives of the Fianna Fáil Party in Laois-Offaly. Quite obviously, the heat has become so intense so far as Deputy Flanagan is concerned, that he is now resorting to his system of 20 years ago of throwing as much mud as he possibly can in an effort to try to do as much harm as he can to the Fianna Fáil organisation. It is nothing new for Deputy Flanagan, but from my point of view I find defending myself in face of such an onslaught is not too easy because I have never had occasion before this to defend myself from an attack such as that which Deputy Flanagan has made.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should confine himself to the matter under discussion.

Mr. Lalor

The matter under discussion, a Cheann Comhairle, is, I respectfully suggest, an attack made on me by Deputy Flanagan.

An Ceann Comhairle

The matter under discussion is an appointment that has been made.

Mr. Lalor

He has suggested that I used my influence to have a relation of mine appointed.

An Ceann Comhairle

And I suggest that the Deputy deal with that.

Mr. Lalor

Right. At no stage did I make any effort, approach the Minister, the county manager, the county secretary, or anybody else. I categorically deny everything Deputy Flanagan said in that particular regard. I know that, in fact, a denial of this nature is possibly useless because of the general impression created that there is never smoke without fire.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Hear, hear.

Mr. Lalor

Deputy Flanagan knowing that, knows quite well obviously that all he has to do is fling as much mud as he can in the hope that some of it will stick. He has alleged that the minutes of the Laois County Council meeting of 30th September last are incorrect. In that allegation he impugns the integrity of the county manager, the county secretary and every member of the county council inasmuch as he states, by inference, that they were associated in a lie. It is very easy to come in here and state that something that appears on the record officially, signed by the chairman of the county council, is out of order, just because it suits Deputy Flanagan's book to say so.

It is obvious that the intention of the Deputy is to make as much of an attack as he can and, in doing so, ridicule his opponents as much as he possibly can. He is obviously feeling very shaky. He sees all his castles in the air tumbling down around him and he, therefore, resorts to this type of attack. I want to assure Deputy Flanagan now that it just will not work. The only people to whom I am anxious to get my message across to are the decent, respectable people of Laois-Offaly who know and appreciate what Deputy Flanagan has been doing over a period. I hope these people will accept the denial I make of the allegation that I made any sort of representations to anybody. I have already denied that at a council meeting. I do it again tonight because Deputy Flanagan is in the fortunate position here of making statements, which he knows have no foundation, under the protection of the House, statements he would not make outside the House.

Mr. P.J. Burke

He would not make them outside the House.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Would Deputy Burke please restrain himself?

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Why was the job not advertised? Will someone tell us that?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his statement and he ought to keep silent now. I shall have to call on the Minister in half a minute.

Mr. T. Lynch

Would you allow me to ask one question?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, I cannot allow it.

Mr. T. Lynch

I would like to ask the Minister about what arose in Waterford.

An Ceann Comhairle

Waterford does not arise on this. I am calling on the Minister.

Minister for Local Government (Mr. Blaney)

We shall have another night for Waterford, if the Deputy so wishes.

Mr. T. Lynch

The Minister need not. He can save himself now.

Mr. Blaney

I do not know what the Deputy is talking about, but, if he enlightens me at some other time, I shall do my best to inform him. The allegation made by Deputy Flanagan is, as has been said, merely a throw-back to what we have come to know him for, to what he has been notorious for down through the years. He makes out that something has been done which is unusual and suspicious. He finally makes the allegation that something was manipulated because a Deputy on this side of the House had some well-removed relationship with the person successful in getting the job. He also makes it appear that, not only is Deputy Lalor implicated in this particular matter to a degree that brings no credit on him or on this House but that the whole staff of his own county council are not to be trusted; he alleges, by inference, that they are people who should not be performing the duties they now perform, that they have trimmed and fixed the minutes of the meeting of 30th September last, a meeting at which Deputy Flanagan was not only present but was, in fact, the proposer of a motion which reads:

That in pursuance of the provisions of Section 6 of the City and County Management (Amendment) Act, 1955, we hereby consent to the creation of an additional office of Staff Officer in the Motor Taxation Department.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

That is not true. That was never passed.

Mr. Blaney

Not only was it proposed by Deputy Flanagan but it was seconded by a member of his own Party. Yet, he comes along here tonight and brands all and sundry as liars and cheats. That is typical of Deputy Flanagan. It adds nothing to what we know of him. At the same time, because of how much we do know of him, I hope that what Deputy Lalor has said will not happen, that none of the muck will stick to anybody except to Deputy Flanagan himself.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Why was it not advertised?

An Ceann Comhairle

Order.

Mr. Blaney

This statement that the minutes are wrong is rather far removed from what actually must have taken place because these minutes are the actual record of what took place on that day and, if they were wrong, the time and the place to challenge this alleged incorrect version was at the following meeting at which the minutes were passed and signed. Deputy Flanagan, a representative on the council, said tonight that the way they came to be passed was that they were——

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Unobserved.

Mr. Blaney

That is the way Deputy Flanagan and the people in his county council carry on the business of the council; they pass minutes without reading them. They do not see what is in them. Yet, they commit themselves to them. They commit themselves to things that are put in by people who, on Deputy Flanagan's inference tonight, are not to be trusted, namely, the county executive staff of his own county council.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

That is true.

Mr. Blaney

That is a blackguardly accusation to make. In my opinion, it arises out of something that really started a few weeks ago. This is a continuation of it. It is a follow-up of Deputy Flanagan's conviction, which he brayed all over County Kildare, that Fianna Fáil were a doomed Party. That was the preparation for a mudslinging campaign, a campaign that he and his supporters felt was the only campaign they could avail of to try to tumble Fianna Fáil, if they could get a general election, which, of course, the people in the two constituencies answered with an emphatic "No".

Deputy Flanagan should be wary of falling back into this old bad habit of his. We had thought that the years might have mellowed him, that his connections made during those years would have brought some sense of propriety to him, if nothing else, and that we had finished with what we had known of him when he made even fouler accusations, accusations that were just as untrue, and accusations, as a result of which, Deputy Flanagan was branded as a purveyor of untruths by the courts of this country. Apparently Deputy Flanagan has failed to learn the lesson.

Nobody, neither Deputy Lalor nor any other person, approached me at any time in relation to this appointment either on behalf of the successful candidate or any other. Mark you, this candidate emerged No. 3 on the list from an open competition. The first man on that list, in the competition for an existing vacancy in that county we are talking about, did not take up the post when it was offered to him. The second man got it and when this post was created, created after it had been proposed by Deputy Flanagan and seconded by his friend in the council, that post was then open to be given to the man who was next in order. When that man turns out to be by name "Lalor" and I believe, according to Deputy Flanagan—it is the only thing he said tonight that I do believe—a cousin of some kind or another of Deputy Lalor——

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

An extraordinary accident.

Mr. Blaney

I repeat that there was no question of collusion or influence. There was nothing unusual about the method of appointment and Deputy Flanagan is really stooping to the lowest form which we have known him to show over the years and he brings no credit on himself. I would not mind that, because it really does not matter, but it is bringing this House into disrepute, as it has also brought his own council into disrepute in its last couple of meetings during which this squabble has been going on. Deputy Flanagan should be ashamed of himself but since we know he is not capable of any such feeling he should at least remember that there may be some respectable members of his family or connections of his down the country who have some shame in them.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Did the Minister ever hear of Paddy McAuley?

Mr. Blaney

Do not mind what we heard.

The Dáil adjourned at 9.45 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 27th February, 1964.