asked the Minister for Local Government if he is contemplating the building of any more houses on a package deal arrangement similar to the Ballymun scheme, County Dublin.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Package Deal Building of Houses.
11.
Cork and Limerick Corporations requested me to arrange for the provision, on their behalf, of 1,800 and 800 local authority dwellings, respectively, in their areas, and a detailed examination of ways and means of meeting their requests is proceeding. No final decision has been made as yet on the type of project to be undertaken.
In the light of his experience in Ballymun, does the Minister now consider in relation to the other area to which he has referred that (1) houses produced on what we will call the Ballymun system are produced quicker and (2) as cheap or cheaper than by conventional building methods?
The answer to both questions is "Yes".
And the Minister thinks the houses are as good as we would get by conventional building?
Unless our tradesmen and other people employed in the factories and on the sites do not live up to what is being done elsewhere by similar people, I see no reason, from what I have seen of these buildings in other countries where they have been erected and occupied, why they should not be as good here.
Is the Minister aware that there is strong architectural opinion pretty freely expressed that, in fact, experience in Great Britain does suggest that the end product is not as cheap, bearing quality in mind, and not as expeditiously produced as organised conventional building would allow?
I would agree that, from the architectural point of view and the opinions expressed by a number of members of that profession, they do not view this sort of development with any great enthusiasm. I would also say, from my knowledge of the experience they have had in Britain in regard to this matter of industrialised building, in their first large venture there, which has only been going on for the past couple of years, they made an error of judgment in that they attempted to plan their houses and to get the system to suit it. This, of course, reduces the benefits of a fully systemised operation. You cannot preplan and then suit the system to the plan because you lose the benefits as to expedition and cost.
Is the Minister not aware that were it not for the hopes he held out on this package deal between Cork and Limerick, the Glenryan housing scheme of 600 houses, in an area in Cork with which the Minister for Finance is quite familiar, would have proceeded and there would have been some houses there now? The result is that today there are no houses under the scheme in this area well known to the Minister for Finance. There is no house even started, and would the Minister explain that to me, as a member of Cork Corporation?
Of course, I will. I would remind the Deputy and other members of the two corporations in question that at the time I had discussions with them, and indeed subsequent to those discussions, the number of houses calculated to be needed by both corporations and which they requested me to have built for them, was the number in excess of the number which they themselves could hope to build from their own organisation and by traditional means. It was only the surplus that they could not provide that is calculated in those two figures of 1,800 and 800.
That is incorrect.
It is not. That was the whole basis established in meeting the Deputy's people afterwards. It was finally hammered down to that.
Has the Minister considered how these 1,800 and 800 houses would be paid for? Is it the intention that they be paid for over a period of 20 years?
That is a separate matter.
I said the matter was under consideration.
Active consideration?
Yes, under active consideration.
There is no money to start any new schemes this year.
They are starting just the same.
If they are to be built on credit, they can be started.
I do not hold with that.