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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 3 Nov 1966

Vol. 225 No. 2

Estimates, 1966-67. - Vote 41—Transport and Power (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That the Vote be referred back for reconsideration.

Before Question Time I was dealing with the situation in the CIE workshops at Inchicore. I am concerned about it as a trade unionist and concerned about the treatment being meted out to my colleagues there. There seems to be no effort by the management to rectify the situation that has developed there over the years. I should like to deal realistically with this matter. CIE had the best of tradesmen, men with initiative who were happy and took a pride in their work. They had the capacity to do all the work necessary. This is borne out by the document we received this morning from the Institute of Civil Engineers of Ireland. The remarks made in the presidential address also apply to the men at shop level, the fitters and turners and others in the workshops. These men are sought after by other concerns and in recent times they have been leaving CIE at a very abnormal rate. If the Minister makes a check he will find that on last Friday and probably the previous Friday nine or ten tradesmen left the railway service while at the same time CIE are having to go to foreign concerns to recruit tradesmen. I am quite sure that if conditions were satisfactory there would be no necessity for this.

I worked there myself and it was a very happy place in which to work. I am aware of the situation that has developed there over the years. Circumstances were probably not then as they are today. They did not have elaborate floor gardens and white lines up the centre of the shop. Neither had they clocks and watches switched on nor closed circuit television and other things that have been introduced to irritate competent and efficient workmen. We have now in CIE the position in which a workman is given a sheet and another man with a stop-watch stands beside him. He gets a limited time to do a particular job but for the following three or four days this man can stand idle with a card in his pocket indicating that there is no job available. This is the situation that has sapped the interest of the men who are rushed through a particular job within a certain time to suit the book, to suit statistics and those who make the time study.

It is wrong that a man should not be allowed to complete a job in the time available in the best possible manner. There is ample time available for men to carry out work to the degree of perfection to which they were accustomed before the introduction of time study. This time study has been a very unfair imposition on the men. They agree that where a production line is operating time study is possibly essential and can be effective in achieving the best results but where it is a question of maintenance and repair work which is very common in these workshops the stop-watch should be put aside. It is hard to ask a man to do a job all day with a person with a stop-watch timing him while at the same time other colleagues of the man are standing by with waiting cards for two, three or four days.

This situation needs investigation. It has caused irritation and destroyed the happy situation which existed formerly at Inchicore. It is not now a happy place to work and labour relations are bad. Having spoken to responsible members of trades unions, I believe the management of CIE are at fault in this matter. Men are leaving after 20 years service and that does not normally happen. A man with 20 years service usually has pension rights, sick pay and other benefits to his credit and now we find such men leaving the service because of the situation that has developed. I ask the Minister to have a very serious look at the position. I believe the Minister was one of a party who went through the workshops a year or 18 months ago and I went through them shortly afterwards. I saw the men standing around with waiting time cards. I am sure the Minister did not see them and that he did not see many things I saw because I was accustomed to them.

If the Minister decides to make any sort of survey he should get the views of the people who are discontented. He will only get one particular view from the company executives. It is necessary to have contented workers who will do their best for CIE and the country and I believe we shall be doing a good day's work if we examine their problems. Possibly the management of CIE have their own problems and probably there has been reluctance about the adoption of time study and other things but the question of contentment is one of very great importance.

I believe the closed circuit television is switched on when visitors come around and that the installation is not yet completed. I think it is neither necessary nor desirable and I should like to know how much money was spent on it and also the reason for the installation. One could understand the need for closed circuit television in the case of a complete production line. That does not apply at Inchicore. The Minister mentioned that productivity per head in the CIE services had increased by 26 per cent between 1958 and 1966 and he said that in January of this year the trade group received 4d an hour production bonus. The unskilled and semi-skilled workers who are part and parcel of this production group received no bonus. It was only last week that the semi-skilled workers received an offer. If the management considered that the trade group were entitled to an increase last January, surely it must follow that other elements involved in production must also get an increase at that stage. I believe the offer in October was rejected, but I just cannot understand why this offer to the lower paid workers should come at such a great interval after the offer to the others.

I believe new thinking will have to take place in the minds of the personnel group in CIE dealing with increases to the skilled and semi-skilled workers there, so that if increases are given on a production basis, all the people who participated in increasing the production, in this case to the extent of 26 per cent, would get a reasonable offer applicable from a certain date and to all groups. I have not yet got a reasonable explanation of the situation there.

I wish also to mention the question of having to advertise in British papers for workers. I am quite sure there is no other concern, large or small, in this city that would have to avail of the British papers in order to entice people to work in their premises. I am quite sure that every other concern in this city has a waiting list in respect of all types of trades that are being sought by the CIE management at the moment. There must be something very wrong when they cannot get men, or that when they do get them they stay for three or four weeks and then move away again.

The Minister should take a personal interest in this section of CIE because sooner or later there will be serious trouble there. I referred to this before. I know trouble has been temporarily averted but, nevertheless, people are dissatisfied and are becoming more dissatisfied each day. This is a serious situation. These works are in my constituency. I know most of the people working there and they are all honest, reliable, God-fearing men. I know I can rely on their views just as Deputy Dunne who has spoken here earlier today can rely on the views of the people in Ballyfermot who work for CIE. The views he expressed are identical with those I am expressing now.

The question of time there has been an important factor. Men have been terrorised on occasions by some of the supervisors. In fact, we have a letter in connection with the time taken on a particular job: "You are getting a reprimand this time but you will be suspended the next time." These are men of 20 and 30 years service, men who are highly efficient. How can you have happy workers or how can they give of their best in those circumstances? If this mentality that is in existence there is an importation into Irish industry, we shall have to have second thoughts about how we can attune the minds of our people to greater production without nonsense of this kind.

Discipline is desirable within every service, and it is desirable that management would have firm control and that they would from time to time bring in the necessary measures to make the place more efficient. That is admitted by all. However, this can be done in a manner which will not cause concern or nervous breakdowns. I know many men in the railway for 20 years who have suffered from nervous breakdowns in the last three or four years. I do not know how far the Minister responsible would be prepared to go, but he can be quite sure that what I am telling him is absolutely true. I do not agree with a great deal of what Deputy Dunne was saying here today on his mediaeval tour, but some of the information he conveyed is perfectly correct.

The position in CIE at the moment is that so long as the paper work is all right it does not matter about the job. To any tradesman or to anyone who has served in the industrial field, the essential thing is the job itself. The man who takes pride in his work wants to see the job he has done still there in five, ten or fifteen years. One sees the non-productive workers in CIE going in there at night to make sure the paper work is all right for the producers the next morning. Public money is being made available for the control of this organisation and we should have a say in how the affairs can be best managed. This will affect management in one way or another, but changes will have to take place if we want industrial peace. I have seen that the Minister has asked the Chairman to consider a motion from Congress with a view to suggesting a long-term agreement. However, before any long-term agreement can become effective it is necessary to have contented workers, and they are not there at the moment, I am sorry to say.

There is a pylon being erected at the moment to display the sign "CIE". This pylon is being constructed for the last 12 months or so. I should like to know the cost of this pylon to date and what it will cost, when completed, just to display "CIE". There is no necessity to advertise CIE in that area because the people there, certainly the workers and their families, are browned off; they have known too many of the pitfalls. and too many of them have entered hospital as a result of the situation in CIE. I do not like attacking people who are not here to defend themselves, but it is necessary and desirable that I should speak on the workers' behalf. I have worked there and I know these people. They are reliable people and for that reason it is necessary that these things should be said.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 8th November, 1966.
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