Ba mhaith liom i dtosach báire comhgáirdeachas a dhéanamh leis an Aire Oideachais mar gheall ar an dtuarascáil a thug sé dúinn maidir le cúrsaí na Roinne sa bhliain seo caite. Tá áthas orainn go bhfuil seans aige cur in iúl dúinn gur tháinig méadú mór ar chaiteachas na Roinne faoi na cinn-teidil go léir. Molaim go háirithe go bhfuil méadú timpeall £5 milliúin idir an bhliain seo agus an bhliain roimhe seo. Ar ndó, tá breis agus £2 mhilliúin ar scoltacha nua agus ar dheisiú sean-scoileanna. Go háirithe, deinim comhgáirdeachas leis mar gheall ar na tairscintí nua agus ar an bpolasaí nua atá molta aige don Dáil agus a cuirfear fá bhráid an Tí seo. Mar adúirt sé féin, ní inné ná inniú a chuir sé in iúl dúinn go raibh ar intinn aige a leithéid a thabhairt isteach. I Mí Meán Fhómhair seo caite do chuir sé in iúl don tír go mbeadh a leithéid ar fáil. Tá sé ar fáil anois. Tá na tairscintí go breágh soiléir cé nach n-adhmhódh an Teachta Tully é sin. Deir sé nach bhfuil ann ach cur-igcéill agus go bhfuil chuile lúb-ar-lár sa scéim agus gur dalladh mhullog atá ann do na fó-thoghcáin.
The Minister in his Estimate deals mainly with the three branches of our educational system which are his responsibility. In general, I propose to comment on the activities of his Department under those heads. It was alleged here last night by Deputy Tully that very little had been done in regard to the programme of replacing unsuitable national schools and improving existing schools. It appears that Deputy Tully did not even read, not to say comprehend, the statement made by the Minister in that regard. The Minister stated that in so far as the replacement of national schools was concerned, 1965-66 was a record year, that 130 new schools were built in that year and 121 schools were either improved or extended. Both these figures constitute records. They have never been achieved before and that they were achieved in a year in which there were financial difficulties is indeed a greater tribute than ever to the work that has been done. It represented a 60 per cent increase on the average for the previous decade but that was not even referred to once by Deputy Tully who bemoaned the lack of progress, as he said, in the building programme of the Department.
I should also like to congratulate the Minister on the improvement that has been made in the teacher/pupil ratio. That improvement was begun by one of his predecessors and not alone has it been maintained by the present Minister but the ratio has been improved to the advantage of both pupil and teacher. I remember when I was teaching in Dublin some years ago around the month of May or June, children came to the school to be enrolled and I often had in my class—it was an infants class—up to 70, 80 or 90 children. This is no exaggeration. That was at the end of June before the enrolment period commenced on 1st July. That cannot and does not happen now. Successive Ministers for Education have lowered the figure for the recruitment of additional teachers and this year the figure has been reduced from 140 to 130 to enable a sixth assistant to be appointed. From an educational point of view, that is a significant improvement. Teachers will no longer be saddled with large classes to which they cannot give proper attention, nor will they have to try to control these large classes to the exclusion of their teaching.
Another development which has been mentioned by the Minister and on which he must also be congratulated is in regard to the steps taken by his predecessor and continued by him to get rid of the untrained teacher. There are many lady assistants, junior assistant mistresses as they are called, who have given excellent service to the nation. To become a junior assistant mistress, one had first of all to attain a fairly high standard in the leaving certificate and had to be eligible for a call to training, although due to the stiff competition, one might not have been successful in securing that call. Up to 1958, or 1956, junior assistant mistresses were recruited and the Minister has now arranged to have suitable junior assistant mistresses who are anxious to do so admitted to crash courses held during the summer, and attendance at which, subject to other conditions, will qualify them for recognition as fully trained teachers. It is a big advance and it is one that has been welcomed by the teaching profession, not to mention the junior assistant mistresses who are vitally concerned in the matter.
There is, however, one plea I should like to make to the Minister. An age limit has been fixed—I think it is 56 years—and junior assistant mistresses who have attained that age will not be eligible to be called to these crash courses. It is a hardship that many of these teachers who are more than 56 cannot be called and consequently will suffer a salary loss. Would it not be possible for the Minister in the case of teachers who have at least five years to go before reaching 65, who have good teaching records, who are recommended by the inspectors, and who are qualified otherwise, to have a de facto recognition given to them and enable them to be placed on an appropriate point on the salary scale? The Minister is a humane man and I feel sure he would not like to see these older teachers, with excellent records, deprived of an adequate salary scale and later of a pension appropriate to their years of service.
The statement made by the Minister in relation to secondary schools was very encouraging. That there should be practically 100,000 pupils enrolled in our secondary schools is a remarkable achievement. When a forecast of that nature was made here a few years ago, that there would be in this year nearly 100,000 pupils attending secondary schools, it was laughed out of the Dáil.
The Minister has also quite rightly mentioned the fact that there was nearly a 300 per cent increase in the number of qualified secondary teachers in our schools last year compared with the year 1950-51. Taken in conjunction, the remarkably high enrolment of pupils and the great increase in the number of teachers are a very encouraging development, and it must be heartening to the Minister to realise that this growth rate has been achieved over the years. It must also be heartening to him to realise that it will be an important matter for consideration in relation to the new scheme with which I shall deal later.
I also want to refer to the fact that in relation to the provision of new secondary schools and new places for pupils, a capital project in the region of £13½ million is being embarked on and that nearly 150 applications have been received from secondary school authorities who propose to provide many new places for pupils and to avail of the very generous scheme of loan repayments introduced by the Department's staff. A 60 per cent contribution to these loan charges is not to be laughed at and it also shows a very favourable trend.
The next matter in the Minister's Estimate is vocational education which is going through a very great transitional period, the most important factor being the introduction of the common intermediate certificate. Heretofore, children attended vocational schools in the realisation that the only certificate—and it was an important one—they could gain was the group certificate. Possession of it enabled candidates for nursing and other professions to have a certificate. It was not generally regarded as a very important certificate—why, I do not know. In its own way, it was important and it was something that the pupils could be proud of, but, for some reason, it was not regarded as on a par with possession of, shall we say, the intermediate certificate from the secondary branch.
While I understand that the group certificate is to continue, the introduction of a common intermediate certificate, common to the secondary and vocational schools, is a welcome step and one in the right direction because children who have an academic bent can proceed to the purely academic subjects and get their certificate for those subjects, but a boy or girl with a flair for subjects like drawing or engineering or metalwork, rural science, domestic economy or any other science catered for in those schools can get their certificate in these subjects and it will be of equal value and merit with the certificate secured by the child attending a secondary school and following subjects such as the ordinary academic subjects.
In that connection, I should like to quote from a book "Education for Tomorrow" by John Vaizey. It is pertinent and relevant to the common intermeniate certificate. On page 16 of the book he says:
Yet, in principle and in law every child now has the right to an education suited to his age, abilities and aptitude and a great deal of the effort of the educational psychologists is concerned in placing children in schools or in classes which appear suited to their talents.
In that connection the common intermediate certificate makes it possible to place children in schools and in courses suited to their talents and natural aptitudes and it is not inferior in any way to the intermediate certificate secured by the pupil of a secondary school where ordinary academic subjects are taught. That is a significant breakthrough.
I am concerned that we appear to be making no great progress towards the provision of regional technical schools. I hope that these will become a reality very shortly because there is a very big demand for them. The technical colleges that we know are in Dublin: they are difficult to get into and it would be a great boon, for country children especially, to gain places in technical schools equal, in status, shall we say, to Bolton Street and Kevin Street, in their own localities. I urge the Minister to go ahead with his scheme to provide these colleges and make them available as soon as possible. I understand we are getting one in Galway and naturally there will be one in Limerick. I hope that within the next year or two something constructive will be done to make a start on these schools and provide the places so badly needed.
I regard the comprehensive schools as pilot schemes in so far as they will integrate the secondary and vocational school in areas where neither type is in existence now. I should like to know if the Minister is getting the full co-operation he desires from the secondary school authorities to whom he has appealed for courses designed to give children with the aptitudes I have mentioned previously suitable instruction. I am aware that he has approached many of these schools, some of them run by the Orders, some run by private individuals. I hope they have agreed to co-operate with him in extending the curriculum and in providing the courses and the subjects he would like to see being taught in these schools.
I now come to the Minister's newly-announced programme for free education. On October 21st last, there was a television programme in which the three major Parties were represented. The Minister for Education, and two other Deputies represented the Fianna Fáil Party; Deputy Mrs. Desmond represented the Labour Party and Deputy Lindsay and Senator Garret FitzGerald represented Fine Gael. That is a little over one month ago. On that occasion it appeared to me that neither Deputy Lindsay nor Senator Garret FitzGerald could explain to the public what the Fine Gael policy in relation to post-primary education was. That is a personal view but it is one, I think, that is shared by all the viewers of that programme "The Politicians". If Senator FitzGerald and Deputy Lindsay knew what the Fine Gael scheme was, they were very good in concealing that fact from the public or in announcing two different schemes; they were successful, too, in contradicting each other. Deputy Mrs. Desmond gave a very good account of herself, I must say, and of the policy of her Party which was published some time ago under the title "Challenge". It was significant that the Fine Gael people could not state what their policy was.
Now on the eve of a by-election campaign, Fine Gael come out with their new policy. Apart from the merits of the policy, which I will not discuss at this stage, the extraordinary feature of the Fine Gael policy is, first, that it is not to cost anything. They are to depend on the buoyancy of the revenue. That is a very nice way of saying that the Fianna Fáil Government, whom they have been accusing for the past two years of being bankrupt, useless, extravagant and what have you, are now going to provide the money out of this buoyant—non-existent, according to them—revenue. It is indeed a tribute to Fianna Fáil, which I am sure was not intended, that we have floating around in this country £3 million or £4 million which, due to the good management of the economy under Fianna Fáil, can be utilised to the benefit of the education of our people. It comes as great news to me that this can be done.
The Minister for Education has clearly said that the implementation of his scheme will involve extra taxation on the people. It is not free in the sense that he can get the money from this buoyancy in revenue, because the Minister for Education is a realist, and this is no time to try to fool or delude people into believing that these spare millions are knocking around somewhere. I know that Santa Claus comes once a year, that his traditional visit is paid on Christmas Eve, but, apparently, Santa Claus is coming this year earlier than usual, on or about 7th December, and that he has a gift for the electors of South Kerry and Waterford, a big Christmas stocking loaded with free education for all the children for which their parents have to pay. I do not know what chimney he is going to come down, but I do not think the people will accept this gift stocking which they know will cost them something and which they know is not realistic.
It has been very amusing to watch the antics of Fine Gael over the past few years in relation to education generally. I sat in here on numerous occasions, and I must confess I always do, if I have the opportunity, to listen to Deputy Dillon. He is a very good orator and while he might display exuberance of language occasionally and use flowery phrases, there is often-times a note of commonsense in what he says. Time and again since I came into this House, on the Estimate for the Department of Education, I have heard him advocate the abolition of small, one-teacher and two-teacher schools and the creation in a locality of a big school with four, five or six teachers to which the children from remote areas could be brought by transport and catered for in a class under the control of a teacher. He waxed very eloquent on this subject and I agreed with what he said.
When this proposal was mentioned by the Minister's successor, however, there was a natural reaction in the country. People like to keep their schools. They regard it as a status symbol to have a school in the locality. There were scenes of different kinds, at high level and low level, in which there were protests against this innovation. Immediately Fine Gael took fright, and we then had the spectacle of Deputy Lindsay and Deputy Jones backpedalling as fast as they possibly could so as not to cause offence either to the clergy or to lose votes locally. In their recent scheme they are full steam ahead again, brakes off, and they are in favour of the large school. How can anybody be impressed by antics of that sort? We went ahead full steam under Deputy Dillon and we backpedalled under Deputy Jones and Deputy Lindsay because votes might be concerned or because certain clerics might take a poor view of it. Now that the air has been cleared and public reaction has died down, they are full steam ahead again. The tandem is working as best it can to get the scheme as part of the Fine Gael plan. They do not even blush about doing it, whereas, if Fianna Fáil did a right-about turn like that, we would never hear the end of it from the benches over there.
They say they have a scheme. They had not got one on October 21st. On the eve of the two by-elections, we are getting instant education at no cost, with a very neat class distinction. We were accused last night by Deputy James Tully of introducing a means test—how he arrives at that I cannot say—segregating the poorer children and identifying them by label. But in the Fine Gael scheme we are to have places reserved in the big colleges, the Jesuits in Clongowes, in Castleknock, in Gormanston and so on. All these are to get very favourable treatment under the new Fine Gael education schemes. I am sure that will appeal to the majority of our people. They have a scheme which they produced recently, by a singular coincidence, and about their scheme the old Irish proverb can be used: "Muna bhfuil agat ach pocán gabhair bíodh sé i lár an aonaigh agat". If you only have a puck goat, have him in the middle of the fair and let everyone admire him. They have him in the middle of the hustings and they are calling on the electorate to admire this little pocán gabhair, born only a few days ago and not even thought of on October 21st.
The Minister for Education has announced a scheme. Whatever Deputy James Tully might say about what he called the gaps and the things unsaid, the Minister has given a clear and unequivocal statement of his intentions. I quote from his document:
My policy in regard to post-primary education in general has as its objective the providing of comprehensive facilities in as many centres as is reasonably practicable so that as far as possible our children will have a genuine option in the matter of choosing the type of education which best suits their aptitudes and talents.
He is providing grants up to £25 for children in secondary schools and providing free transport for the children to those schools. He has given an undertaking that, if a child has the ability, the talent and the desire to advance, that child will not be denied the highest position in the State if he is prepared to go ahead. I know big sacrifices are called upon from parents. I taught in schools and I have some knowledge of the matter. The parents of a poor family when they have a brilliant child, the eldest child especially, may want him to help the family by taking up a job, be it ever so small. They have to make a sacrifice if they want that child to go ahead and get the necessary education, when he or she could otherwise be working and bringing in a few pounds to the family. We have all had that experience of seeing those young people, either classmates of our own or students of our own, very brilliant and very talented, having to stay away from school to become a breadwinner, when, if they had the opportunity and their parents could afford it, they could become the "Village Hampden." If the Minister's scheme is allowed to go through, it will be possible for such children to make progress and to be assisted right along the line until they reach the profession or calling to which their talents and aptitude are suited.
The provisions for free post-primary education have been outlined by the Minister. They are soundly based and will be availed of by at least 75 per cent of the population. The figures the Minister quoted in relation to fees in secondary schools are realistic, because they have been provided by the authorities in question. There is one thing on which I should like to compliment the Minister, that is, the generous assistance he proposes to give to children of the minority faith. That is the right position. We in this part of the country should show that we lean over backwards to ensure that the pupils of the minority religion are afforded equal—if not better—opportunity with those of the majority faith. There are very few of them and they are scattered all over the country. They have to get special assistance. That the Minister recognises this problem is a credit to him and something on which he must be congratulated. He should make no apology for it, and I know he will not.
There is one big gap in the Minister's post-primary scheme. He has stopped short at what he proposes to do in relation to university education, apart from a general reference to it. That is not the fault of the Minister. We have had sitting here for the past six years a Commission on Higher Education. It is about time they brought out their report. We are fed up listening to replies to Dáil Questions that it will be out soon, that it will be out next month and so on. If they are not able to bring out their report soon, the Commission should be abolished. As far as I know, they are now on their seventh year. Many of the conclusions they will reach and the recommendations they will make will have been invalidated by the passage of years and will not be relevant to present conditions at all. I understand—I do not know how true it is—that the Minister was told either directly or indirectly that if he referred to proposals for university education in any form, the Commission would resign. I say to the Minister: Let them resign and be damned to them. We are tired waiting for them. If we have to await for these gentlemen to arrive at decisions and to make recommendations in regard to a task that was entrusted to them six years ago, then all I can say is that we are thoroughly fed up with their performance. I do not care whom I offend when I say that. Maybe Deputy T. O'Donnell is a member of that Commission for all I know. Is he?
