asked the Minister for Education if he has considered the necessity, in relation to membership of the EEC, of harmonisation of qualifications and the formation of liaison bodies of professions with the EEC covering agricultural scientists, scientists, architects, engineers, barristers-at-law, solicitors, tax consultants, dentists, accountants, nurses, doctors, both general and specialist, opticians, pharmacists, journalists, surveyors, veterinary surgeons etc.; if he has consulted all or any of these professions; if they are aware of changes affecting them; and generally if his Department and the Government are taking steps to ensure that all these professions will be represented on such liaison committees as have or may come into being.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Harmonising of Professional Qualifications.
13.
The professional qualifications awarded in this country are of such an international standing that I am satisfied that the admission of Ireland to the EEC would not present any undue difficulties in so far as concerns the recognition of these qualifications and their harmonisation with the corresponding qualifications in the EEC countries. No particular steps such as those suggested in the Deputy's question, are considered necessary at this time.
I may add, however, that developments in the EEC countries in this connection are being kept under constant review so that such appropriate action as may be required at any particular time may be taken without delay.
Does the Minister not agree that the formation of such liaison committees as are referred to in my question would be desirable?
Mr. O'Malley
No, I do not think so at this time. Should the necessity for consultation with representative groups of the professional bodies referred to by the Deputy arise in time, we will consult them then.
Would the Minister not agree that in matters of this kind it is extremely important that persons with qualifications from our own country should be recognised in the event of a European union, seeing that we have difficulty here at the moment in relation to service, say, by teachers in England who will not get any credit for it or who will not get credit for English qualifications if they come here?
Mr. O'Malley
That is a different matter altogether.
I do not think it is. I think it is very important.
Mr. O'Malley
I would refer the Deputy to the paper European Communities which was laid by the Government before both Houses in April of this year. Reference is made there in some detail to the points mentioned by the Deputy. In fact, this paper gives details of the educational standards, qualifications, and so forth, in reference to these various matters. I think the Deputy will find a lot of information there which could answer his question in more detail than I have dealt with it.
I agree that this information is contained in the paper referred to by the Minister but what I want to know specifically is: will the Minister say, if we are in Europe and he is in Opposition, whether he would be able to operate architecturally or engineering-wise in Holland or France or any place like that? Will his qualifications be accepted? And, if he runs into any sort of bother by way of any kind of claims in which he might be involved as a litigant, would he be able to secure my services in France or in any one of the EEC countries?
Mr. O'Malley
I can assure the Deputy that I will give him the first turn.
Could the Minister say if a body such as that mentioned by his predecessor in Education, a consultative advisory body, has been set up within the Department consisting of representatives of the various teaching professional bodies and other bodies interested in this matter, so as to co-ordinate our approach to the European problem?
Mr. O'Malley
As the Deputy will be aware, the appropriate teaching bodies themselves are making an examination in depth with regard to the implications of membership of the EEC. He should appreciate also that the Minister for Finance has established a special interdepartmental committee to advise on developments generally, of which one of the most important is, of course, education. I have read thoroughly the general indications with respect to matters of education in Ireland on Ireland's accession to the EEC which were forwarded by my Department to the Department of Finance and I do not think we need have cause for any undue anxiety. We are keeping the matter under close attention.
The previous Minister for Education mentioned the question of setting up such a body under the aegis of his Department to co-ordinate the various bodies that cater for primary, secondary and university education. Would the Minister say if such a body has been set up or if there has been any discussion in this regard?
Mr. O'Malley
I am not aware that such a committee was set up. All I know is that the teaching profession, through their representative bodies, are examining the entire position and, in fact, have had discussions with the Department.
This problem has arisen in the light of what the Taoiseach said yesterday on the statement of the Foreign Secretary in the House of Commons. We at present enjoy reciprocity with Great Britain in regard to recognition of qualifications, which is of great value. Has the Minister considered what might happen if there were a gap between the consideration of our application for admission to Europe and that of Great Britain? Would it be possible for Great Britain, under the regulations to which he has referred, to maintain reciprocity with us, having themselves secured reciprocity with the EEC while we were still pursuing negotiations? If not, perhaps the Minister would have the matter considered.
Mr. O'Malley
Yes. The Deputy is assuming there that Great Britain would get into the EEC before Ireland?
I am not assuming that. I am saying that question was raised by the Taoiseach yesterday.
Mr. O'Malley
I do not think there would be any trouble in regard to the recognition of our qualifications in Great Britain, should that arise. However, may I say on this question of the recognition of professional qualifications that, first of all, the main concern for Ireland in relation to the different matters suggested would appear to be in connection with qualifications awarded by the universities? Ireland, Great Britain and the countries of the EEC are all members of the Council of Europe. This Council has adopted conventions on qualifications, equivalence of diplomas, periods of university studies and so forth. Ireland and the other countries I have mentioned in regard to these conventions—I have it all set out here—Ireland, Belgium, Federal Republic of Germany——
Not two lists on the same day.
Mr. O'Malley
It is rather involved and to cover the matter adequately, I would need to make a comprehensive statement. Perhaps I should have done that today, but it would take a long time. If the Deputy would repeat his question, I should be glad to give the information.
The position would appear to be, to get the subject matter of this question into perspective, that apart from the arduous work involved in keeping matters under constant review, the Minister and his Department have done nothing in this regard?
Mr. O'Malley
That is most unfair. I was trying to deal with this matter on a high level, but unfortunately Deputy Lindsay——
I speak for the ordinary people.