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Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 9 Nov 1967

Vol. 230 No. 14

Committee on Finance. - Vote 41—Transport and Power.

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £8,932,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1968, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Transport and Power, including certain Services administered by that Office, and for payment of sundry Grants-in-Aid.

It has been agreed that the subject matter of a Supplementary Estimate for £100,000 will be discussed in conjunction with the main Estimate.

The principal increases in 1967-68 are in the provisions for Salaries, Wages and Allowances £80,000 (Subhead A); Equipment, Stores and Maintenance £54,300 (Subhead C); Grant-in-Aid for Tourism under Tourist Traffic Acts £779,000 (Subheads F.1, F.2 and F.3); Constructional Works at Airports £200,000 (Subhead G.2); Radio Equipment £149,000 (Subhead J); Grant-in-Aid and Housing Subsidies and Grants for Shannon Free Airport Development Company Ltd. £185,000 (Subheads K.1 and K.2); and Rural Electrification £77,800 (Subhead O). Small increases in other subheads amount to £67,935, bringing the total increases to £1,593,035.

The increase in the provision for salaries, wages and allowances is mainly due to authorised salary increases and normal incremental progression (£57,000) and partly to the inclusion for the first time of the wages, salaries and allowances of the staffs at the Coast Stations at Valentia and Malin Head (£23,000). Since the 1st April, 1967, these stations are being operated by my Department. Formerly they were operated by the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, the deficit on operation being charged to my Department under Subhead B.2—Post Office Services. The increase in the provision for radio equipment is attributable to additional major items of equipment falling to be paid for during the financial year.

The principal decreases in 1967-68 are in the provisions for Post Office Services £12,310 (Subhead B.2); Córas Iompair Éireann Redundancy Compensation £30,000 (Subhead D.2); and Grants for Harbours £26,000 (Subhead E). Small decreases in other subheads amount to £1,460 bringing the total decreases to £69,770. To this amount must be added the increase of £222,265 in Appropriations in Aid which is equivalent to a decrease in the net grant and brings the total decrease to £292,035.

The decrease in the provision for Subhead B.2—Post Office Services—is due to the removal of the provision in respect of the deficit on the operation of the coast stations at Malin Head and Valentia, £36,000 for 1966-67. This decrease is offset by an increase of £12,000 in the deficit in the operation of Shannon post office, an increase of £10,000 in the provision for recoupment of salaries and wages and other small increases amounting to £2,000 for various services.

The increase in Appropriations in Aid is due mainly to increased estimated receipts from Passenger Service Charges at Airports £60,000, an increase in the estimated surplus on the Dublin Airport Management Account £70,000 and an increase in landing fees at Shannon Airport £60,000.

On the basis of actual increases and decreases as stated above, namely, £1,593,035 increase and £292,035 decrease, the net increase as shown in the Book of Estimates, compared with the 1966-67 provision is £1,301,000. Taking the Supplementary Estimate into consideration, the net increase amounts to £1,401,000.

CIE's net deficit for the year ended 31st March, 1967, amounted to £2.398 million, which was £398,000 more than the Board's annual subsidy of £2 million.

The results for the year have been adversely affected by three main factors: (1) strikes within CIE during the year, the net cost of which to the Board was £223,000, (2) a number of causes outside the Board's control such as the British seamen's strike, the American airlines strike and strikes in the paper mills and confectionery trade, and (3) a fall-off in traffic due to credit restrictions. CIE have estimated that, in the aggregate, these three factors resulted in a net loss to the Board in 1966-67 of £613,000.

CIE increased their rates and fares on average by 7½ per cent with effect from 13th June, 1966. Total operating receipts for 1966-67 at £25.123 million show an increase of almost £1.6 million on the receipts for the previous year. The increase would have been much greater, were it not for the factors I have already mentioned.

The increased receipts were more than offset, however, by increased costs, consisting largely of increases in rates of pay and improvements in conditions of service of the Board's employees. Total additional labour costs in 1966-67 amounted to £1.3 million of which the 10th round increase in salaries and wages, which was implemented with effect from 18th May, 1966, was responsible for £1.013 million.

Apart from the cost of maintaining the canals and harbour and vessel services, the Board's deficit is attributable to railway operations. Other services are profitable. It was a difficult year for rail passenger traffic as the prolonged shipping strike from midMay to the beginning of July and other stoppages due to labour disputes had a serious effect on all services. There was, however, an improvement in long distance rail passenger business during the winter months. Overall, there was an increase of 6.7 per cent in rail passenger revenue. Despite the adverse effects of labour unrest during the year and other factors such as credit restrictions and lack of buoyancy in the economy, there was an improvement of 5.8 per cent in rail merchandise revenue which, apart from the increase in rates, was mainly contributed by increased carryings of fertilisers, cement, livestock, oil, beer and mineral traffic, partly offset by a fall in beet tonnage, due to a significant reduction in the acreage sown, and in sundry traffic, which was noticeably affected by credit restrictions.

The operating profit on the Board's road passenger services showed a very slight increase overall but, due mainly to the impact of labour unrest during the year, the operating surplus on the Dublin city services fell from £295,000 in 1965-66 to £200,000 in 1966-67. Provincial city and long distance road passenger service results were very satisfactory, however, and CIE have informed me that express bus services were very successful. The operating surplus on the Board's provincial services increased from £127,000 in 1965-66 to £224,000 in 1967.

Despite the serious effects of the shipping and airline strikes to which I have already referred, it was a record year for CIE coach tours. The Board's revenue from coach tours amounted to £284,000. Coach tourist traffic has continued to grow at an encouraging rate and there is every indication that this important sector of tourism will continue to expand. As far as foreign tour operators are concerned, last year 26 such companies operated tours in Ireland and offered 28,000 passenger seats. To date this year, I have granted licences to 42 foreign companies to provide tours limited to passengers booked abroad. About 75 per cent of CIE coach tour business comes from North America and during the year CIE opened an office in New York. It is hoped that the establishment of this new office in New York will improve selling and marketing arrangements in North America and provide for a substantial increase in this business in future years.

Road passenger mileage on CIE services, excluding tours and private hire, has fluctuated somewhat since 1960 but the 1966-67 figure, after allowing for the effect of CIE strikes in 1966, shows a reduction of 6 per cent on the 1960-61 figure. Rail passenger mileage has remained fairly constant despite the closure of branch lines. Between 1960 and 1966 the number of private cars has increased by 75 per cent to 296,000 and it is estimated that by 1975 the number will be in the region of 600,000. With this sharp increase in the number of private cars it is clear that public transport will be faced with far more severe competition than in the past.

Public transport in most other European countries is faced with the same problem but I was most interested to learn from figures recently published by the European Conference of Ministers of Transport that, despite the competition from private cars, most European countries expected that between the years 1963 and 1975 rail passenger traffic might increase but at an almost negligible rate. The figures also show that road passenger traffic would also grow between 1963 and 1975, but that the rate of increase for public transport would be slight compared with the growth rate for private transport.

There was an increase of £14,000 in the operating surplus on the Board's road freight services during the year from £173,000 in 1965-66 to £187,000 in 1966-67. While these services were affected by the adverse effect of credit restrictions, there were marked increases in the haulage of ground limestone and cement.

The operating profit on hotels and catering, which are operated by the Board's subsidiary, Óstlanna Iompair Éireann Teo., increased from £146,000 in 1965-66 to £156,000 in 1966-67, while the net costs of maintaining canals and vessels increased from £60,000 in 1965-66 to £97,000 in 1966-67.

As Deputies are aware, the Transport Act, 1964, set the amount of the annual grant payable to CIE at £2 million with the aid of which the Board are required to break even. The amount of the subsidy will be subject to review in 1969. The Board's deficits during 1964-65 and 1965-66 taken together, were contained within the limit of the annual grant, but when 1966-67 is included, the grant was insufficient to cover the deficits for the three years. I should point out, however, that were it not for losses amounting to £673,000 arising from strikes within CIE in 1965 and 1966, the Board, notwithstanding the heavy additional expenditure on increased labour costs, would have been able to achieve the break-even target for the first three years of operation of the 1964 Act.

CIE labour costs are 67 per cent of operating expenditure. Between 1963 and the end of March, 1967, CIE labour costs have increased by approximately £4 million a year or 31 per cent. Over the same period there was an increase of about 17 per cent in the consumer price index while the increase in real GNP up to the end of 1966 was 8.3 per cent. CIE has been instituting productivity schemes securing greater utilisation of stock, streamlining accountancy and administrative procedures. But inevitably freight rates and passenger fares have been increased.

Were it not for an increase of productivity of about 12 per cent secured in the last three years CIE would either have lost substantial traffic or the subsidy for the railways would have increased, thus depriving the people of other more productive budgetary outlays. The position is still extremely difficult.

During 1966-67, capital expenditure by CIE was £3.3 million approximately. Among the works carried out during the year was the construction of a short spur railway line at Silvermines to enable the total output of the mines, amounting to about 350,000 tons per annum of lead, zinc concentrates and barytes to be conveyed by rail for export through Foynes. The Board continued with projects of rehabilitation and modernisation and, where possible, are effecting improvements aimed at increasing productivity. Work was commenced on the reconstruction of Plunkett Station in Waterford, where it is proposed to erect a new station building which will contain offices for the entire area headquarters staff. Substantial additions to and renewals of the Board's road and rail rolling stock and equipment were made during the year: new vehicles put into service for the road passenger services consisted of eight 45-seater and forty 53-seater single deck buses, forty-nine 78-seater double deck buses of the Atlantean design, eight express buses and 14 luxury coaches.

The Board have been making every effort to maintain and improve efficiency on city services despite adverse traffic conditions particularly in Dublin. Schedules were recently re-designed and extended, additional capacity was provided, special control points with telephonic communication with the Central Traffic Control Offices were set up. Experiments with stand-by crews have also been made. The Board introduced a new decentralised form of organisation for Dublin city services in November, 1966. For this purpose the city has been divided into seven districts each under the control of a District Manager who also deals on-the-spot with public complaints and requests. As already announced by the Board, CIE intend to avail of television and radio techniques this winter for the purpose of seeking solutions to some of the problems involved in running Dublin city bus services. The use of one-man buses was also extended last year. Although the one way streets and clearways have been contributing to more rapid traffic flows the growth of private car transport inevitably will increase the gravity of the bunching problem during peak hours and no scientific estimates of bus routing can prevent disruption of time schedules at peak periods. This problem of bus bunching is receiving and should continue to receive priority attention.

The Origin and Destination Survey conducted by CIE in which the travel patterns of 227,000 Dublin citizens were recorded has now been analysed. The preliminary report will disappoint those people who very humanly may have believed that the CIE bus services must be outdated and distorted despite all the know how of management and even although there have been new services and rerouting in recent years.

The remorseless facts obtained by data processing the records prove that taken at large and wide the services are in the main rightly directed. One single fact will be of interest. Only 11 per cent of the Dublin bus travellers change buses to reach their destination and the figure is about 7½ per cent at the peak period of travel.

Any dramatic change will not take place. To a certain extent the pattern of services is dictated by the present road structure. Should Dublin Corporation adopt any striking proposals for circular roads, through roads and new bridges, then there might be some changes.

CIE have played an active part in the development of container services between this country and Britain. The first such service was established by the Board in 1960 in co-operation with British Ferry Trailers and Containerways. The working arrangement between the two bodies was revised recently and since January 1st, 1967 it has been operating under the trading name "Irish Ferryways". CIE also participate in the B & I unit load service between New Ross and Newport, Wales, the British and Irish Steampacket Co, Ltd. providing the ships and CIE the containers. Between imports and exports the cross-Channel container traffic of CIE amounted last year to about 100,000 tons and is increasing steadily. The Board's container services are operating profitably.

Coming to the end of a long period of reorganisation and facing the three problems of massive private car competition, containerisation and enormous increases in labour costs, I felt it right to suggest to CIE that some outside world famous organisation might examine the Headquarters management sector of CIE operation. I am glad to inform the House that the Report indicated that the executive organisation was efficient and required almost no change of significance.

Apart from long term studies of transport, to which I will refer shortly, stated policy, that is policy as defined by me as Minister, in respect of CIE follows quite clearly the pattern emerging in Europe where no railway system is now paying its way although in some cases because of favourable conditions the deficits are not considerable.

CIE should continue to apply modern survey techniques in order to provide the best bus services possible at the lowest cost and to improve regular rail passenger services as far as this is possible. Administrative and accounting techniques should be continuously modernised to stabilise the cost of processing freight and passenger traffic. Containerisation and other unit loads moved by mechanical handling equipment must as in every other distributive service play an increasing part in stabilising transport costs as far as practicable. It is evident from comparative studies abroad that the conductorless bus will become an even more important part in keeping bus fares from leaping ahead of the general purchasing power of the public even though this should increase through greater national productivity. Government legislation in relation to industrial working conditions makes all these policies practicable and capable of negotiation.

Finally I am glad to note the improvement in amenities for the CIE staffs which continues yearly.

A comprehensive review of the existing road freight transport policy is being undertaken in my Department.

This must necessarily take account of long term trends and must be based on the best information we can get to guide the formation of policy. The results of the Sample Survey of Road Freight Transport recently published by the CSO are a valuable aid in this respect. The Survey showed that about 54½ million tons of goods were transported by road in 1964. Over 1,000 million ton-miles were performed in transporting that quantity of freight. In the same year 2½ million tons were moved by rail. The ton-mileage figure for rail was 214 million or 17 per cent of the total. The Survey also shows that more than 80 per cent of goods carried by road are carried on own account, the remaining 20 per cent being shared by CIE and the licensed hauliers.

These figures illustrate the large proportion of road freight carried otherwise than for reward and also the relatively small proportion carried by the railway. Information on these lines is essential in framing policy.

A further study is in progress under the aegis of the Economic and Social Research Institute. One of the aims of that particular study is to evaluate how transport requirements are likely to evolve in the period up to 1985 and how these requirements can best be met.

In addition, the Regional Studies being undertaken by Professor Buchanan on behalf of An Foras Forbartha will include detailed consideration of the transportation requirements of the regions.

A review of transport policy must of course take account of EEC policy in this regard and this aspect of the matter is also under study in my Department. The Federation of Irish Industries have also set up a working group to examine from the standpoint of users the transport implications of this country's accession to EEC.

Some considerable time must elapse before any far reaching changes in policy can be put forward with confidence but in the meantime the statutory provisions relating to the licensing of road transport are being administered in as liberal a manner as possible. I decided to modify the restrictions on movement of licences on transfers and have advised the Associations catering for licensees accordingly. I arranged for co-operative measures between CIE and the licensed hauliers to deal effectively with the requirements for short distance haulage of livestock to and from fairs and marts. Following an examination which I had undertaken of the facilities available for the long distance haulage of livestock from the West and North-West, I agreed to extend the scope of the licences held by certain hauliers in those areas to enable them to transport livestock to any place in the State. That particular concession is now under review in the light of a recent complaint to the effect that it does not fully meet the situation.

As regards cross-Border haulage, Deputies will recall that under reciprocal arrangements made last year with the Minister of Development, Northern Ireland, cross-Border haulage for reward has been greatly liberalised. Under the reciprocal arrangements I refer to, licensed hauliers in the State whose licensed areas are contiguous to the Border and licensees in the North may engage in cross-Border haulage for reward. As Deputies will recall, the arrangements were introduced on an experimental basis and are subject to review. I am keeping the position under examination with a view to seeking a review in the light of any tendencies in the traffic which would be significantly inimical to our interests.

In the interests of this country's export trade, it was decided that Ireland should adhere to a number of international Conventions which facilitate the international transport of freight. Difficulties experienced by Irish exporters to Europe, indicated the need for exporters and transport undertakings to be in a position to avail of the facilities provided for under the Conventions in question. One of the Conventions relating to the customs aspect of international transport is that known as the TIR Convention. Under that Convention, goods carried in road vehicles or in trailers or in containers carried on such vehicles are not liable to customs examination at points en route.

So that exporters and transport undertakings may be in a position to avail of the facilities provided by the TIR Convention, a carnet issuing association, Lastas Éireann Teo., was set up. It is encouraging to find that many existing associations and companies concerned with the international surface transport of goods, are giving their support to the new association.

The British and Irish Steampacket Company made a net profit, after all charges, of £86,019 in 1966 as compared with a net loss of £87,752 in 1965, despite an increase of £302,800 in operating costs—wages, trade expenses etc. This increase in operating costs was more than outweighed by an increase in operating revenue mainly due to a revival in livestock and passenger carryings, a further increase in unit load tonnage, and an increase in freight rates effected in March, 1966.

As I have indicated on previous occasions, the company before the takeover by the State in March, 1965, had been a subsidiary of a large group and had been largely controlled by the parent company. When the new Board was appointed, I gave them various directions as to the analysis and overhaul of their operations with a view to greater efficiency and productivity. It was also necessary to ensure that the company be placed in a sound position for the future by relating their methods to modern needs in the cross-Channel trade.

It is a tribute to the new Board and management that in the space of two years these examinations and analyses have now not only been carried out but that action to implement the Board's conclusions has been initiated as witnessed by the rapidity of the change-over from conventional to unit load services which the Board expect to be finally completed by the end of 1968 and by the steps taken to acquire car ferry vessels to initiate ferry services between Dublin and Liverpool in 1968 and between Cork and South Wales in 1969.

The company will also introduce a second car ferry vessel on the Dublin Liverpool route in 1969. One of these vessels will be built in Verolme Cork Dockyard. The Board are confident that these services will be profitable and self-financing. Car ferry services should of course have a most favourable effect on the tourist trade. The Board also have under examination the possibility of designing a more efficient livestock carrying vessel which would cater for other traffics in addition to livestock and also the possibility of greater rationalisation of their existing livestock services. They are evaluating the design of unit load container vessels.

Whilst the company have not yet completed their long term capital development projection, they expect that the cost over the next five years will be in the region of £9 million.

The emergence of surplus labour by reason of the transfer from conventional to unit load services continues to be one of the company's most difficult problems. The board believe that the situation can be eased if there is a mutual understanding and appreciation of the issues involved.

There have been radical and continuing changes in sea transport in recent years with an increasing use of new methods. The B & I in fact is going through the process of being converted from one kind of shipping service to a completely new service involving the replacement of most of the fleet. I feel confident that all possible steps will be taken by the Board to ensure a more efficient service and a sound basis for profitable operation.

The value to the country particularly to an exporter of the development of the most modern methods in cross-Channel transport is borne out by the fact that the average freight rate per ton of goods carried by the B & I Company was slightly less in 1966 than in 1960 and is expected to be still lower in 1967. This is a remarkable achievement in a period of rising costs and charges, and is due to the increasingly rapid change-over by the company from conventional to unit-load services. Unitisation has yielded substantial cost reductions which have been passed on to traders and consumers at large.

The stated policy for the B & I is to so develop and modernise their operations that unit loads, livestock, passengers and cars can be carried at the lowest possible cost, and on a commercially viable basis. For this I hope it will be possible to continue to replace obsolete vessels by modern specialist ships taking advantage of the 25 per cent grant now available so as to employ the maximum number of our own people at the highest rate of productivity. Any success in establishing greater productivity at the docks will ensure lower costs for the transport of goods and stimulate greater employment. In fact greater productivity at the docks is vital to our exports.

The improvement in the ocean freight rates which enabled Irish Shipping Ltd. to make a profit of £58,404 in 1965-66 went into reverse after the first few months of 1966. Rates fell to a low level in the summer of 1966 and continued at a depressed level during the rest of the company's financial year. The average voyage rate index figure for the year 1966 was 114.5 as against 126.5 for 1965, 112 for 1964 and 109 for 1963 (base, 1960=100). The index figures for the first three months of 1967 were 100.5, 103.1 and 106.2 as against 124.1, 126.1 and 122.4 in 1966. As a result of this collapse in freight rates, the company made a loss of £67,471 in 1966-67. There has been an improvement in freight rates in the meantime, the index figure for August being 113.2 as against 108.0 in August, 1966.

It was decided some time ago, to dispose of the older uneconomic ships as occasion offered and to acquire a dry cargo bulk carrier of 34,000 tons dead weight. Two further vessels were accordingly sold recently—the "Holly", a small tanker of 3,350 tons dead weight and the "Oak", a dry cargo vessel of 7,575 tons dead weight both of which had become uneconomic. The new bulk carrier recently launched at Cork Dockyard will be delivered to the company in the new year. The fleet will then be approximately 160,000 tons dead weight.

I have been anxious to see the introduction of a direct passenger and car ferry between Ireland and the Continent and I therefore welcome the arrangement which Irish Shipping have made with Normandy Ferries for the commencement of such a service in 1968. The success of the cross-channel ferry services indicates the great value of the services to our tourist trade and I hope that the Continental service, which will open next June between Rosslare and Le Havre on a once-weekly basis, will attract large numbers of European visitors and will expand in future years.

The Board have continued their efforts towards greater efficiency. As a result of work study on the ships and improved working methods, it has been possible to secure with the agreement of the unions concerned greater productivity on most of the ships. The new and improved methods of budget control, stores management and working procedures have in general proved satisfactory and have contributed to more economic operation.

During the past year the company made a detailed comparison of their operating costs with those of other owners. It was found that whilst in most areas the company were operating relatively economically and efficiently, there were some activities in which there was considerable room for improvement. Reductions both in the cost of shipboard and administrative operations have been effected.

Stated policy for Irish Shipping Ltd. dictates that the primary aim of the company is strategic—to have enough suitable ships to service our essential needs in an emergency. Nevertheless, I regard economic viability as also essential and our aim must be to have a fleet adequate to meet our essential requirements but constituted so as to operate profitably if the level of freight rates so allows.

The Irish shipping industry has been experiencing difficulties in recent years because shipowners have not been earning sufficient pre-tax profits to gain relief from existing taxation allowances. This has led to non-replacement of old vessels, to a reduction in the volume of Irish registered tonnage and has adversely affected the interests of the industry which has to operate in a highly competitive market. I am glad therefore to say that I recently secured the agreement in principle of the Government to the giving of investment grants of 25 per cent to Irish shipowners for the purchase of new ships and the conversion of existing ships. Details of this scheme are being worked out in my Department and I will make a further announcement in the matter at a later date. The Government have also agreed that the reduced interest rates hitherto available in respect of ships built in Ireland for foreign shipowners will in future be available also to Irish shipowners.

Among the other events of significance in maritime affairs during the past year was the coming into force in Ireland of the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, 1960, which took place on 14th May, 1967. This Convention deals with such matters as the construction of ships, life-saving and fire-fighting equipment on ships, radio and direction-finding equipment, carriage of grain and dangerous goods. The 1960 Convention replaces an earlier Convention of 1948, which Ireland had also implemented.

On 18th May, 1967, the 1962 amendments to the International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution of the Sea by Oil, 1954, came into force internationally. These amendments should be of considerable assistance to Ireland in averting the risk of oil pollution, since they push out to 1,100 miles west of Ireland the zone in the North Atlantic in which ships are prohibited from discharging oil. They also prohibit new vessels of 20,000 tons gross or over from discharging oil anywhere at sea.

The wreck of the "Torrey Canyon" last March has underlined the very serious consequences which large-scale oil pollution could have for our tourist industry and marine life. Ireland's concern is all the greater because much larger tankers, the largest in the world in fact, will commence operating to the Gulf Oil transhipment terminal at Whiddy Island in Bantry Bay next autumn. Consequently I have once more gone most carefully into all aspects of the question of anti-pollution measures at Whiddy, in consultation with all interested parties, and in the light of the lessons to be learned from the "Torrey Canyon" case. As a result I am satisfied that every possible step is being taken to eliminate, in so far as is humanly possible, the risk of pollution at Bantry and to ensure that facilities are available to deal speedily and effectively with any accidental spillages that might nevertheless take place.

I have also arranged for the setting up of an expert working group to report on the practical measures which should be taken in the even of an oil spillage threatening serious pollution of the Irish coast. In this work the group will have the benefit of the experience of the team which I sent to Britain last April to observe the British anti-pollution campaign in operation. Deputies will appreciate that the "Torrey Canyon" case has stimulated a lot of research and development in the field of anti-pollution measures and my concern is to ensure that we in Ireland have available to us the most up-to-date techniques for tackling the problem should we ever be faced with it.

In view of the world-wide repercussions of the "Torrey Canyon" case, the Inter-Governmental Maritime Consultative Organisation (IMCO) has undertaken an urgent study of all questions arising from the occurrence. Ireland, as a member of this body, is participating in the study and it will be one of our objectives to ensure that full account is taken of the interests of nations with exposed coast lines. Apart from purely technical points about safety of navigation and anti-pollution measures, IMCO is considering a number of legal questions, including in particular the highly important issue of the liability of the shipowner to meet the cost of oil pollution damage.

There is a provision of £212,000 in respect of grants for harbours. Of this amount, £100,000 is intended for Foynes Harbour where a major improvement scheme comprising the construction of a jetty and ancillary facilities for the export of ore concentrates is nearing completion. The State grant represents 25 per cent of the estimated cost—£400,000. This port has an industrial future as it is one of the few portal centres in the entire country where ships of up to 12,000 tons can berth. Provision is also made for improvements at Ballina, Drogheda and New Ross and the acquisition of equipment at Sligo.

I am glad to announce that the Government have recently approved a State grant of £260,000, together with a loan from the Local Loans Fund of £370,000, towards the provision of improved accommodation for the container and deep sea traffic at Waterford, the total cost of which is estimated at £730,000.

I hope that the employer-union negotiations for the decasualisation of dock labour and for increased productivity in the deep sea section of Dublin Port will soon be brought to a successful conclusion. The cross-Channel shipping companies are also engaged in studies to improve productivity and at the same time achieve better conditions for dockers.

It will be recalled that I appointed a working group in 1964 to investigate the possibility of accelerating the movement of goods through the ports and that the group made a number of recommendations to eliminate excessive delays which were found to occur in the clearance of goods particularly at Dublin Port and produced a Guidance Manual for Importers on Customs Procedures. I am glad to say that there has been a distinct improvement in the movement of goods through the ports and that the measures taken by the Dublin Port and Docks Board to relieve congestion in the transit shed have been successful and that the position is now satisfactory.

The policy in regard to harbours will continue as before. Capital grants will be available in cases where it is known that increased trade is certain and not trade diverted from another port so that financial assistance will be truly productive.

The operating surplus of Aer Lingus for 1966-67 was £315,885 compared with an operating loss of £63,539 in the previous year. Revenue increased by 20 per cent and expenditure increased by 16 per cent. In the year ended 31st March, 1967, Aer Lingus carried 1,215,863 passengers, an increase of 15 per cent over the previous year. Freight carried by the Company during the year amounted to 23,300 metric tons, an increase of 26 per cent. The Company maintained its services on all routes during the year.

This summer it inaugurated new services from Dublin via Brussels to Munich; from Dublin to Madrid and from Shannon Airport to Belfast. The cross-Channel car ferry services operated with Carvair aircraft were discontinued in the summer of 1966. These services were introduced initially to stimulate tourism but sea ferry services have been introduced on cross-Channel routes and have proved to be too competitive for air ferries. Aer Lingus opened a new office in Belfast early this year to cater for increasing business in this region including the new Shannon/Belfast service. These developments provide further evidence of the improving links between the two parts of the country.

During the year, Aer Lingus with my approval acquired Shannon Repair Services Limited, a company based at Shannon and set up a few years ago for the handling and maintenance of non-scheduled aircraft. The company had not been doing well and Aer Lingus is in process of rationalising its activities while at the same time keeping staff dislocation to a minimum.

Aer Lingus is at present operating on a mixed fleet of Viscount and BAC one-eleven aircraft and it has on order two Boeing 737 aircraft for the London route. It is satisfied that it will eventually be obliged to go over to jets on all its European routes to maintain its competitive position.

Hear, hear.

It has, therefore, decided to standardise with one type of aircraft as the operation of a single-type fleet will enable substantial cost eeconomies to be made which would not be available with a mixed fleet. For operations on the Aer Lingus routes, the most suitable aircraft now available is the Boeing 737 and the company has decided to standardise on that type disposing of its Viscount and BAC one-eleven aircraft.

Our transatlantic airline, Aerlínte, continues to operate satisfactorily. The operating surplus of Aerlínte for 1966-67 was £790,040, a fall of £288,780 on the previous year. Revenue increased by 20 per cent but expenditure increased by 27 per cent. During the year ending 31st March, 1967, Aerlínte's passenger traffic rose by 22 per cent to 176,600 while freight increased by almost 30 per cent to 4,200 metric tons. Once again, the airline had the highest load factor of all operators on the North Atlantic route in both directions, due to its intensive promotional activity mainly in North America. A new Aerlínte service between Shannon and Chicago via Montreal was inaugurated in May, 1966, and has been extremely successful. The frequency was greatly increased this summer and direct services to Chicago are also operated.

Aerlínte's transatlantic capacity has recently been increased by the additition to the fleet of a fourth Boeing 320 aircraft. The company has ordered two Boeing 747s, Jumbo Jets, for delivery in 1971. The Air Companies (Amendment) Act, 1967, which was enacted earlier this year, provides for the necessary increase in the limit on Government guaranteed borrowing by Aerlínte to enable the company to raise loans towards the financing of the purchase of the 747 aircraft.

The combined financial results of Aer Lingus and Aerlínte for the year ended 31st March, 1967, showed an operating surplus of £1,105 925 after provision for normal depreciation. This compares with a combined profit of £1,015.281 for the previous year. Revenue of the two companies increased by 20 per cent on the previous year and expenditure by 21 per cent.

The recent agreements between the air companies and groups of workers will I hope result in absolutely vital increases in productivity.

The stated policy for the air companies is to provide a safe, regular and reasonably priced air transport service, and at the same time to make operations economically viable by every known technique and to increase productivity compatible with safety. The permanent inherent challenge to be faced in this derives from the inevitable traffic pattern attaching to the operations of the companies. These include the shortest international run across the North Atlantic, with high summer peak and low winter traffic; the short distances on the majority of the British services and some limitations in regard to continental traffic potential.

The extending of the season, which Bord Fáilte and the airlines are actively promoting, and continued efforts to increase productivity and to standardise equipment will be required. I mention those points because every penny of profit is required by the companies to help in financing new aircraft purchases.

Consequent to the Air Companies Act, 1966, Aer Rianta is no longer a holding company for Aer Lingus and Aerlínte and its functions are now confined to the management of Dublin Airport on my behalf. The Board has been reorganised to take account of this fact. The issued share capital of the air companies at 31st March, 1967, was £13,661,313 all of which, except for directors' shares is held by the Minister for Finance.

The finances of Shannon Free Airport Development Company Limited are provided from the Exchequer by way of (i) grant-in-aid to meet running expenses and grants to industries, (ii) housing subsidy and grants, (iii) share capital for the construction of factories and (iv) repayable advances for the provision of housing and community services.

The allocation of grant-in-aid to meet running expenses and grants to industries (Subhead K1) is arrived at after taking account of receipts from the Company's revenue earning activities, mostly rents from factories and houses. The provision for 1967-68 is £500,000 or £150,000 more than for 1966-67. The increased allocation provides for promotional expenses related to the achievement of the growth in tourist numbers and industrial employment projected for 1967-68 and for grants to industries amounting to £300,000. Up to 31st March, 1967 the total amount paid to the Company by way of grant-in-aid for the purposes stated amounted to £2,355,500.

Grant-in-aid is also payable for housing subsidy and grants (Subhead K2). The amount of subsidy payable for each dwelling is the amount by which the economic rent exceeds the rent charged after taking into account grants equivalent to those payable under the Housing (Loans and Grants) Acts, 1962. The total amount paid by way of subsidy to 31st March, 1967 was £130,500 and the provision for 1967-68 is £46,000. Housing grants equivalent to those available to private persons and public utility societies under the Housing Acts are also payable to the Company. The total amount paid to 31st March, 1967, was £104,340 and the provision for 1967-68 is £34,000. Only a token provision was made for 1966-67 and no expenditure was incurred.

The allocation for 1967-68 of share capital for factory and warehouse construction and repayable advances for houses and community services is £1,100,000. This is in line with the Second Programme provision and compares with £850,000 paid in 1966-67. The total amount paid to the Company by way of share capital and repayable advances to 31st March, 1967, was £7,001,000.

The Shannon Free Airport Development Co. Ltd. (Amendment) Act, 1965 raised the statutory limits on State investment in the Company to £12,000,000 made up of £6,000,000 share capital, £3,000,000 repayable advances and £3,000,000 grant-in-aid. At 31st March, 1967 the total issues to the Company from the Exchequer amounted to £9.5 million. It may be necessary to promote new legislation in the near future to provide for an increase in the statutory limits.

At 31st March, 1967, there were 18 manufacturing and 15 commercial firms operating at Shannon employing 3,244 persons of whom 1,908 were men. Eight new firms were established during 1966/67 and two firms ceased operations. One million, fifteen thousand, one hundred and fifty square feet of factory, warehousing and office space were completed or under construction compared with 908,000 square feet at 31st March, 1966. The allocation of share capital for 1967/68 includes provision for the construction of eight standard factory bays and two warehouses.

In recent months several new industries have been set up in the Estate or are in course of doing so. Their products include machinery equipment and printing and publicity. I understand that the Shannon Free Airport Development Company have well founded hopes that eight new factories will be established in the Estate in the near future working mainly in the electronic and engineering fields.

Air freight generated by the Industrial Estate in the year 1966-67 was 2,205 tons, an increase of 37 per cent over the previous year. It accounts for about one-half of the total terminal air freight at Shannon.

The total number of dwellings completed by the company at 31st March, 1967, was 137 flats and 318 houses. A further scheme of 125 houses is nearing completion. Sixteen houses were completed and ten were under construction by private enterprise. A new comprehensive school was opened in September, 1966. The resident population in the Housing Estate at 31st March, 1967, was about 1,700. The allocation of repayable advances for 1967-68 includes provisions for part of the cost of construction of a new scheme of 130 houses which has commenced. Provision is also made for infrastructure works consisting of drainage, roads, water supply and sewerage services to enable the development of the new town centre at Shannon to proceed. Outline planning for the town centre has been undertaken on the basis of a population of 6,000 by the early 1970s. The arrangements for implementing the town centre proposals are at present under consideration.

Some 18,600 persons took the one-day mediaeval tour and banquet at Bunratty during 1966. In addition, over 17,400 persons attended the banquet only and 10,100 persons took part in tours from Shannon operated by CIE. The Folk Park and Castle were visited by 69,000 persons in 1966. The winter tour taking in the Folk Park attracted 500 participants in 1966-67. Stated policy for SFADCO is to develop the Shannon Industrial Estate and community until there are 6,000 people living in the new town.

All sectors of traffic at Dublin Airport continued to increase in 1966. Passenger traffic rose by 15 per cent to 1,547,900 while freight rose by 25 per cent to 34,000 metric tons. In the first six months of 1967, passenger traffic rose by 19 per cent while freight dropped by 8 per cent due mainly to the withdrawal of the air car ferry service and to the decline in the shipment of agricultural produce to the continent. As well as Aer Lingus, services are operated to and from the airport by seven foreign operators—British European Airways, BKS Air Transport, Limited, British Midland Airways, Limited, Cambrian Airways, British United (CI) Airways, Scandinavian Airlines Systems (SAS) and Iberia Airlines. Horse-ferry services continue to be operated at the airport.

Constructional work to the value of over £1,200,000 is at present proceeding at the airport. This is only part of the programme required for the systematic development of the airport to cater for the increased traffic and larger aircraft foreseen in the years ahead. Work is well advanced on a new building linking the two piers which have already been provided. This building will be completed this year and will enable both piers to be used for passenger handling.

Work is under way on a new cargo terminal which is due for completion in 1968. It will have three times the area of the existing cargo building and is designed to permit of further expansion to meet growing needs as they arise. It will be sited on a new approach road south of the new passenger complex, thus segregating passenger and cargo road traffic on the landside. An extension of the apron to provide an increased number of aircraft parking positions has been virtually completed. Construction of a new catering building, with associated offices and stores, is scheduled to commence shortly and to be completed early in 1970. Catering, including flight victualling, is growing apace with the development of the airport and it has now become a sizable industry in its own right. Centralisation of catering activities will result in greatly increased efficiency.

A new terminal building is urgently required to cater for the continuous growth in traffic which will be accentuated by the advent of the Jumbo Jets. Planning of the new terminal is in hands and Aer Rianta have engaged US consultants to advise in the matter. The terminal will dovetail with the new piers and link building and form part of the new passenger handling complex.

Dublin Airport recently followed the example of Shannon and other international airports by establishing a duty free shop. Sales at Shannon duty free shop are not affected by the opening of the Dublin shop since the latter sells only to passengers embarking at Dublin for the continent. Passengers embarking at Dublin for North America via Shannon, can place their orders at Dublin for collection of the goods at Shannon.

The total capital expenditure on Dublin Airport up to 31st March, 1967, amounted to about £4,946,000. For the year ended 31st March, 1967, total revenue at the airport was £995,000 and expenditure was £722,000, the operating surplus, therefore, being £273,000. When allowance is made for depreciation and interest on capital expenditure amounting to about £425,000, the overall deficit on the airport in 1966-67 was about £152,000. If, however, the airport accounts are relieved of air navigation charges, in keeping with procedures in other countries, the overall deficit becomes a surplus of about £136,000.

The total number of passengers at Shannon Airport in 1966 increased by 10 per cent to 468,800; terminal traffic increased by 20 per cent. Terminal traffic has been increasing steadily for some years and the drop in transit traffic has been tapering off. Total freight traffic at the airport amounted to 17,700 metric tons, a decrease of 8 per cent over the 1965 total. Terminal freight increased by 21 per cent to 6,900 metric tons. The increase was not sufficient to offset the drop in transit freight. Transit freight cannot be stimulated in any positive way and the volume is mainly determined by the technical necessity of some freighter aircraft to stop at Shannon for refuelling, en route to other airports. In the first six months of 1967, terminal passenger traffic increased by 11 per cent and transit traffic by 6 per cent while terminal freight increased by 15 per cent.

In addition to Aerlínte, scheduled transatlantic services are operated to Shannon by Pan American Airways, Trans-World Airlines, Air Canada, KLM (Royal Dutch Airlines), Air France and Seaboard World Airlines. During the present year, turn-round flights at the airport are operated by Trans-World Airlines and Pan American Airways as in previous years. The growth and development of Shannon is underlined by the resumption of Air France transatlantic services through Shannon this year after a lapse of nine years. LOT, Polish National Airlines, inaugurated a scheduled service from Warsaw to Shannon Airport this summer and it is expected that this service will stimulate traffic for the Aerlínte transatlantic operations. The Czechoslovakian Airline, CSA, is continuing the Prague-Shannon service this year. A further significant development for Shannon is the introduction of a new freighter service by Seaboard World Airlines to cater for freight originating in the Industrial Estate. The Viscount service between Dublin and Shannon, to provide connection services for non-Irish transatlantic operators at Shannon, was resumed this summer and as already mentioned the company commenced a new service between Shannon and Belfast.

The Aer Lingus services between Shannon and London, Manchester and Paris continue to operate; British European Airways also operate on the Shannon-London route, as in previous years.

The turnover of the Shannon Airport Sales and Catering Service for the year up to 31st January, 1967, was £1.8 million. This was the first year during which the United States Government restrictions on duty-free imports had their full effect and it is encouraging that turnover was not far short of the level for the previous year which was a record. The restrictions have, however, had an adverse effect on the volume of sales per passenger and on profits which amounted to £62,000.

As Deputies will be aware, the Government decided earlier this year, following talks at official level with US representatives not to accede to the request of the US Government for permission for one of their airlines to operate turn-around services to Dublin with compulsory stops at Shannon in both directions. The policy of the Government continues to give priority to the development of the western tourist areas served by Shannon and to the maintenance of that airport as Ireland's only transatlantic gateway.

At Shannon a new concourse has been provided. Work has been completed on an extension of the departure lounge and duty-free shops. This latter extension enables the sales and catering service to carry new and profitable lines of goods with consequential increased revenue. A much-needed extension of the customs examination areas has also been completed.

Substantial adaptation and new construction will be necessary to cater for the Boeing 747 aircraft, Jumbo Jets, which are expected to be in operation on the North Atlantic by 1971. These aircraft will each carry up to 435 passengers and greatly increased passenger areas and new methods of passenger handling will be necessary. The requirements are being carefully studied and the necessary planning of the airport works which will be necessary to cope with them is in progress.

The total capital expenditure on Shannon Airport up to 31st March, 1967, amounted to about £6,183,000. For the year ended 31st March, 1967, total revenue at the airport was £1,096,000 and expenditure was £1,034,000, the operating surplus, therefore, being £62,000. When allowance is made for depreciation and interest on capital expenditure amounting to about £543,000, the overall deficit on the airport in 1966-67 was about £481,000. If, however, the airport accounts are relieved of net navigation charges, the overall deficit becomes a surplus of about £6,000.

All sectors of traffic at Cork Airport continue to increase. The number of passengers rose in 1966 by 18 per cent to 160,400 while freight increased by 36 per cent to 2,110 metric tons. In the first six months of 1967, passenger traffic increased by 15 per cent. Regular services are operated to Cork by Aer Lingus, British United Airways, Cambrian Airways Ltd., and British Eagle. An extension of the terminal building and of the flight victualling accommodation was recently completed and work is at present in progress on an extension to the bar.

The total capital expenditure on Cork Airport up to 31st March, 1967, amounted to about £1,479,000. For the year ended 31st March, 1967, total revenue at the airport was £123,000 and expenditure was £199,000, the operating deficit, therefore, being £76,000. When allowance is made for depreciation and interest on capital expenditure amounting to about £130,000, the overall deficit on the airport in 1966 was about £206,000. If, however, the airport accounts are relieved of air navigation charges, the overall deficit is reduced to about £107,000.

The provision for tourism takes the form of three grants-in-aid to Bord Fáilte Éireann under subheads F.1, F.2 and F.3 of the Vote. Under Subhead F.1 I am proposing a provision of £2,250,000 which represents an increase of £339,000 on the amount provided last year. This is Bord Fáilte's main grant-in-aid and from it the Board are required to meet the cost of overseas publicity and advertising, including the operation of overseas offices, together with their own operational and administration expenses and a wide range of special activities such as improvement works at minor resorts and at places of historic or other special interest, the provision of amenities in angling areas, the provision of road signs, the development of special attractions of a sporting or cultural character, assistance to hotel staff training schemes, the payment of interest grants on loans raised for accommodation and resort development and promotional work in connection with festivals and international conferences.

The increase under this subhead is necessary to enable Bord Fáilte to provide for increased marketing abroad principally in North America and to meet higher commitments for interest grants on loans raised for the development of holiday accommodation. The Board are also providing additional funds for the Regional Tourism Organisations and for miscellaneous improvements at places of interest throughout the country. Expenditure at an increased level is required to meet the increase in competition in international tourism and to attain a rate of growth in traffic which is essential for the achievement of the target set for tourism in the Second Programme for Economic Expansion.

I am proposing a provision of £500,000 under subhead F.2. which represents an increase of £240,000 on the amount provided last year. This grant-in-aid is provided to enable Bord Fáilte to give grants for the development of major tourist resorts. The Tourist Traffic Act, 1959, authorised the payment of sums not exceeding in the aggregate £1 million for the development of major tourist resorts. The limit of £1 million was increased to £3.25 million by the Tourist Traffic Act, 1966, to provide for the completion of the present programme and for the inauguration of a new programme. The total amount issued up to 31st March, 1967, was £1.25 million. The major resort scheme is carried out by Bord Fáilte in consultation with the local authorities and other local development interests, who must contribute at least 20 per cent of the cost, and Deputies will be aware of the many new and improved amenities that have already resulted from this scheme or are now in train.

Bord Fáilte are at present giving initial consideration to the centres to be included in the next resort development programme. In preparing this programme the Board will take account of the growing popularity of motoring tourism and will therefore be concerned to develop and improve not only the traditional holiday resorts but also inland areas of interest and recreation. They will be consulting local interests in this matter, through the Regional Tourism Organisations and will also take account of the development plans now being drawn up by the local authorities under the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act, 1963.

Under subhead F.3. I am proposing a provision of £700,000, an increase of £200,000 on the amount provided last year. This grant-in-aid is provided to enable Bord Fáilte to give grants for the development of holiday accommodation. The availability of sufficient accommodation is essential for the development of tourism and failure to extend public and private investment in hotels and other forms of accommodation would leave a major bottleneck in this vital sector. Over the past two years the increase in hotel accommodation has averaged about 700 additional bedrooms a year. Bord Fáilte have calculated, however, that to achieve the target of doubling tourist income between 1960 and 1970 the rate of growth should be 1,200 additional hotel bedrooms per annum.

I appreciate that in many areas a new hotel which would be highly desirable from a tourism viewpoint would not be an attractive proposition from an investment or business viewpoint, because of the problems of construction cost, remote location, short season and other factors. I have accordingly authorised Bord Fáilte to pay higher grants in certain circumstances in order to encourage the necessary development. The limits on the grants have been raised for a two-year period to stimulate maximum investment in suitable tourist accommodation particularly in the twelve western counties. The level of grant made in particular cases will vary within stated maxima according to criteria based on tourist requirements.

In the 12 western counties, grants of up to 35 per cent of the total construction cost of new hotels are being provided; in other remote areas the grant will continue to be limited to 25 per cent of the total construction costs. Where the total construction grants do not apply, grants up to a maximum of 50 per cent of the costs of new bedrooms are being provided in the western counties and up to 40 per cent elsewhere. Guesthouses providing at least five guest bedrooms will qualify for 20 per cent grants. Grants of up to 50 per cent will be provided for site development and amenity works at caravan and camping sites of registrable standard, subject to a maximum of £20,000 per site. In Gaeltacht areas supplementary grants are provided by Roinn na Gaeltachta for hotel and guesthouse development.

Apart from the amounts being provided in the three subheads I have mentioned, which constitute the normal annual funds of Bord Fáilte, I am also proposing this year to provide by Supplementary Estimate a special fund of £100,000 to assist the development of houses for holiday letting and the provision of supplementary accommodation and farmhouse holidays in the western counties. Bord Fáilte have been listing supplementary accommodation, including farmhouses, for the last few years and this development has been of great benefit to householders participating in the scheme. It has also been welcomed by holiday-makers who appreciate the characteristic welcome they get in these houses and the good value for money that is provided.

There are, however, many householders who are deterred from participating because of the cost of improving or extending their houses and providing modern amenities. This is particularly the case in the small farm areas of the West. Under this new scheme, Bord Fáilte will give grants towards such necessary improvements and I have no doubt that many householders will be encouraged to provide seasonal holiday accommodation, thus assisting in the tourist effort and at the same time sharing at first hand in the benefits of tourist income.

Progress in the provision of hotel accommodation has been impeded to a very great extent by the shortage of credit. This is a matter to which the Minister for Finance and I have given considerable attention over the past year and following discussions on the matter, the banks agreed to accord a high priority to hotel development and to assist in hotel projects which constitute sound banking advances. I have reason to believe that the increased grants which are now being provided and the easement in the credit situation will result in a significant expansion in accommodation over the next few years.

The total amount which it is proposed to provide under the four subheads is £3,550,000, an increase of £879,000 over the amount provided last year. I am satisfied that the increased expenditure is fully justified, having regard to the tremendous potential which tourism offers for further earnings.

Progress towards achieving the target of doubling tourist income between 1960 and 1970 at constant money values was satisfactory up to the end of the 1965 tourist season. Our expectations received a set-back in 1966, however, when for the first time in ten years tourist revenue showed a fractional decline as compared with the previous year. Total revenue decreased by £500,000 from £78.2 million in 1965 to £77.7 million in 1966. The decline was due to two main factors: (1) the British seamen's strike and (2) lower per capita spending by visitors from Northern Ireland. The decline in income from Northern Ireland amounted to £3.5 million and there was a reduction of £0.4 million in the income from visitors who came direct from overseas. These decreases were offset by an increase of £2.1 million in the earnings of Irish carriers and an increase of £1.3 million in the income from cross-Channel visitors.

Notwithstanding the disappointments of the 1966 results, tourist income remains the largest single earner of foreign currency and continues to offer scope for further expansion. It is too early to give any firm indication about the 1967 season but I am confident that when the figures are available they will show that tourist income increased again this year.

There has been a good deal of speculative comment on the level of hotel prices in Ireland. It can be quite certain that competition is largely a controller of hotel prices. Bord Fáilte investigate complaints of overcharging.

I once more would like to report that in the annual hotel price analysis prepared by the Financial Times, a journal of international reputation, a comparison is given of prices in medium grade hotels, the cost of a lunch for two, of an evening out for four and of a typical food basket. Out of twenty capital cities, Dublin is low in the list for prices and in the case of a medium priced hotel not luxury class is one of the four lowest. Nowhere in the analysis is there evidence of grossly inflated charges. This does not mean that there are no black sheep or that very great attention should not be given to costing and indeed to management and productivity. What is lacking here at the moment are larger hotels of medium price for package tours and this is the subject of examination.

One of the factors offering the best prospects for growth in traffic is the drive-on/drive-off car ferry services operating to Dún Laoghaire and Rosslare. In 1965, the first year of operation of these services, the total number of cars brought in to the State by sea and air was 46,000, a 50 per cent increase over the previous year. Despite the interruption in services last year, the number of cars carried during the shorter operating season was slightly up on the previous year. Figures for this year are not yet available but Bord Fáilte have estimated that the total will be in excess of 70,000 cars. There is no doubt that there is immense scope for expansion in this field and this has been recognised in the decision of British Rail to introduce a second vessel on the Dún Laoghaire route in 1968, the commencement of the B & I service between Liverpool and Dublin also in 1968 and the proposal by Irish Shipping Ltd. to provide a service direct from the Continent.

One of the most significant developments of the past few years has been the establishment of the eight Regional Tourism Organisations to co-ordinate local activities in tourism especially in providing information and room reservation services for visitors. In 1966, staffs at 95 offices handled over one million enquiries and booked a quarter of a million bednights in hotels, guesthouses, and supplementary accommodation. Though the operation of the tourist information offices has been the main activity of the regional organisations, they are also engaged in other important activities such as the preparation of regional guides and operating the Bord Fáilte drive for more supplementary accommodation. With the present emphasis on development of rural accommodation and farmhouse holidays, regional organisations will be required to play an increasingly important part in tourist development.

Pressure on accommodation resources during the peak of the tourist season emphasises the necessity to extend the season as much as possible. Bord Fáilte are continuing the various activities designed to achieve a longer season through support for festivals, encouragement for the holding of conferences, assistance for angling and other field sports. Some progress has been made in recent years, and where previously there was a special June Holiday plan, there is now a new scheme based on a "Free Day in May" idea. There is the first year of the new fixed June bank holiday in lieu of the previous movable Whit Monday. This should in time encourage more holiday-making early in the season, but it is of course too soon yet to say how effective the move will be. The August bank holiday is not being changed and will continue to be on the first Monday in August.

With the growing competition in international tourism, sales and marketing abroad are becoming increasingly important to the development of tourist traffic. I have encouraged Bord Fáilte to extend the scope of their organisation in order to include marketing surveys based on the latest methods of ascertaining tourist motivations. The most modern techniques of specialist surveys, statistical samplings and market research are now employed by the Board to ensure that information is available to guide the expenditure of funds and the allocation of priorities. Marketing activities abroad have been expanded considerably and Bord Fáilte now have offices in London, Paris, Frankfurt, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Montreal, Toronto, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow. In the drive to penetrate new markets, the Board have sponsored visits to Ireland by large numbers of travel agents and travel writers from abroad and the fund of goodwill thus built up and the resultant publicity have proved of great value to Irish tourism.

Arrangements for co-operation between Bord Fáilte, the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and the British Travel Association are proceeding satisfactorily. The three bodies have combined in the publication of a brochure aimed at the North American market, and the benefits of this kind of joint effort will become more apparent as the area of co-operation is extended.

The efforts of Bord Fáilte and other State organisations to develop tourism would of course be ineffective were it not for the enterprise and co-operation of the private sector. This covers a wide range of interests—the hotel and catering industry, transport, the licensed trade, trade unions, the car rental industry, caravan interests, travel agents, festival committees and many other groups of commercial interests and community development organisations. Bord Fáilte recognise the important role of all these interests and the annual tourism co-ordination meetings organised by the Board provide an opportunity for a complete and valuable exchange of views on all aspects of tourist development.

It is reasonable to assume that some of the ground lost in 1966 will have been made up this year. Continued progress in the development of tourism depends on the trend of world events as well as on continued expansion of tourist facilities at home. Even with the most favourable climate for international tourism, it is clear that we must continue to engage in concentrated marketing activities abroad and to develop accommodation and recreational facilities at home. This will call for continued investment at a fairly substantial rate both by the State and the private sector.

Stated policy in respect of Bord Fáilte depends, more than in the case of other State companies, on current budgetary provisions and the field of potential development is very diverse. The following are some special pointers, it being unnecessary to give in detail the more obvious and general directives:

(1) Market research into the character of potential new visitors to Ireland, their family status, incomes, requirements in accommodation, length of stay, category of transport used, preference for package tour or travelling free of predecision.

(2) The assessment of accommodation requirements and in particular attention to the need for caravan, guesthouse and farmhouse accommodation on the one hand and the evident requirement for B Class 40/-45/- a night hotel accommodation particularly for coach tours. In this both Ostlanna Iompair Éireann and the air companies should be joined in consultation.

(3) The continuous extension of the season.

(4) A new assessment of amenity requirements not only in resorts as such but to cover the requirements of motorists, anglers, golfers etc., an estimate of wet weather amenity requirements.

(5) An assessment of tourist potential related to changes in the British economy where inflation is not likely to play a significant role in stimulating holiday spending, the conclusions to be derived from this and the comparative tourist potential in respect of other countries.

(6) Further examination of the cost structure of hotel operation, the need for productivity growth in hotel management for sound cost accounting in the management of hotels. Particular attention to allegations of excessive price charging.

(7) Stimulation to the Regional Tourist Boards ensuring orderly and progressive development particularly in the areas needing intensive economic development.

(8) Particular vigilance in regard to the preservation of natural beauty in the countryside and the limitations of new buildings to existing growth points and other limited areas.

The demand for electricity continues to increase. During 1966-67 the total output of the ESB, 3,851 million units, was nearly nine per cent higher than the previous year. The rate of growth in demand for electricity reflects the progress in the economic development of the country and the improvements in the living standards of our people. The peak demand on the ESB last winter was 886 MW; the previous year's peak was 815 MW. Generation from native sources in 1966-67 was almost 51 per cent of total output.

The Board's long-term programme of generating plant is related to an average annual increase in demand of nine per cent as envisaged in the Second Programme for Economic Expansion and which compares with the European average annual increase rate of about seven per cent. Between now and 1970 the Board's plans provide for two new oil-fired stations, each having two 60 MW units, at Great Island. County Wexford and Tarbert, County Kerry. In 1970-71 the first of two 120 MW sets will be commissioned at the new Pigeon House "B" station in Dublin and the second will be commissioned in the following year. The implementation of these plans will bring the Board's total installed capacity to 1650 MW by 1971-72 as compared with 1170 MW at 31st March, 1967.

The generating plant programme will be kept under review in the light of any significant changes likely in the rate of growth in the economy over the next few years. It takes over five years, however, to plan and commission a generating station. Once a station is in course of construction, its commissioning can be postponed or brought forward to only a limited extent.

Within the past few months, I have examined a proposal by the Board for a pumped storage project in County Wicklow and have conveyed my approval in principle to the project. A pumped storage project depends on the utilisation of relatively cheap electrical energy, available from generating stations during off peak hours, to pump water from a low level reservoir to a high level reservoir. The water is used the following day to produce peak load energy and for spinning reserve. The Board have, after lengthy and careful investigation, chosen a site at Lough Nahanagan in County Wicklow which they consider suitable for such a project. I have arranged with the Board that everything possible will be done to preserve the scenic beauty of the hillside. No part of the finished work will be visible on the surface and there will be no denudation of surface rock. The proposed plant would have a total capacity of 240 to 280 MW. It is expected that the first stages of the scheme should be completed in about six years from the date of final approval.

During 1966-67 the Board once more had to incur substantial expenditure on the strengthening of the distribution system to meet increasing local peak loads.

With regard to rural electrification there was a slowing-down in the rate of connection in the post-development programme in 1966-67 because of the general limitation on capital expenditure and the need to meet continuing commitments such as system improvements. The position was reviewed last November and additional capital was made available to the Board to enable them to connect houses which were already wired and where firm commitments had been made. An increased capital allocation for rural electrification has also been authorised for 1967-68 and this allocation, amounting to about £2 million, will enable the post-development programme to continue according to plan.

At present approximately 85 per cent of rural premises are connected to the electricity supply and at the planned rate of progress it is expected that when the post-development programme is completed in about three years time nearly 92 per cent of rural premises can have supply. The ESB will be fully occupied with the post-development scheme until the scheme is finished in about three years time. I look forward to a final evaluation of ways and means to continue the completion of the rural electrification scheme.

I am having the position in regard to special service charges examined to see whether anything can be done to reduce the costs of making supply available to householders in isolated areas. I cannot of course at this stage say what the outcome of this re-examination is likely to be. The amount to be voted this year for repayment of the subsidy advanced from the Central Fund for rural electrification is £705,500. This figure should not be confused with the capital allocation of about £2 million to which I have already referred and which is the amount which is to be spent on rural electrification this year.

When introducing last year's Estimates, I referred to the mounting costs of labour and materials and to the fact that as a result the Board considered that an increase in charges was necessary to enable them to fulfil their statutory obligation to balance their accounts. In the circumstances, the Board applied to the Minister for Industry and Commerce under the Prices Act for permission to increase prices by 7 per cent. The Minister appointed the Electricity Prices Advisory Body to conduct an inquiry into the proposed increases and in the meantime permitted the ESB to bring the increases into force provisionally on the understanding that the new tariff rates would be subject to review if on considering the report of the Electricity Prices Advisory Body, he decided that the increases were not justified.

The provisional increases were introduced in November, 1966 and a public inquiry into these increases were held by the Electricity Prices Advisory Body who recommended that the average increase in charges of 7 per cent should be replaced by an increase of 5 per cent, while at the same time the Board should be permitted to recover the 2½ per cent turnover tax from consumers. After the report was submitted, however, the ESB withdrew their proposal to recover turnover tax and the effect of the changes recommended by the advisory body would, therefore, have been minimal. One of the bases of the advisory body's recommendations was that because of an estimated shortfall in milled peat deliveries in 1967 and the consequent use of oil instead of peat, a saving of £250,000 in fuel prices would accrue to the ESB. In view of improvement in turf harvesting conditions in 1967 and the increased cost of oil arising from the closing of the Suez Canal, this saving is not now likely to arise. In the circumstances, the Government have permitted the increase of 7 per cent in electricity charges to stand.

In so far as Departmental policy is concerned, it would be only just to point out that the findings of the technical assessor who assisted the Prices Advisory Body in the investigation showed that the Board's management was highly competent. This, I hope, will stimulate the Board to continue to press on still more rapidly with every conceivable technique related to accountancy, stores control and movement and maintenance while using the most modern procedures for evaluating generation and transmission policies with the object of providing power at the lowest possible cost.

Discussions have been taking place under the aegis of the Department of Labour to determine whether a voluntary agreement can be negotiated between the Board and its employees which will give a reasonable assurance that no interruption of the electricity supplies will take place arising from industrial action.

Because of the increases in charges and because the output from the hydro stations in 1966-67 was higher than normal due to heavy rainfall and also the fact that there was greater utilisation of the oil-fired stations due to the shortage of turf for the turf-fired stations, the ESB had a marginal profit of about £250,000 on Profit and Loss Account for 1966-67. This represents 0.8 per cent return on total sales of over £29m. Were it not for the increase in charges and the savings in fuel costs there would have been a sizable deficit instead of a modest surplus.

The total fixed capital invested by the Board at 31st March, 1967, was in the region of £176 million of which £39 million was in rural electrification. The self-financing ratio for 1966-67 was 44 per cent. The ESB had a 7% stock issue on 14th March, 1967, for £7 million which was fully subscribed the same day.

Last year I also referred to the published report of the joint committee which the Minister of Commerce for Northern Ireland and I set up to investigate the possibilities of cooperation between the two electricity systems. As a result of the recommendations made in that report, the proposal for the cross-border interconnection of the Electricity Supply Board's system and the Northern system has been accepted by both sides as technically possible and economically desirable. In the early years of interconnection, the net saving on generating capacity would be about £200,000 a year and it is estimated that there would be additional savings of £164,000 a year from the use of larger generating sets earlier than would otherwise be possible.

Considerable progress has been made with the implementation of the proposal and the Minister of Commerce and myself, at a recent ceremony in Belfast, gave our formal approval to the Joint Statement of Agreed Principles and Intentions. The time to complete the project is estimated at three years from the date of a clear technical decision to proceed.

There has been no significant development in the nuclear energy field from the point of view of the ESB.

The production programme for Bord na Móna cannot be planned with the same degree of accuracy as in the case of many other enterprises, because output depends fundamentally on the weather conditions prevailing during the harvesting season. All production operations of Bord na Móna require natural drying caused by evaporation resulting from the effects of sunshine, drying winds and high temperature during the months from April to September. The weather conditions have been unfavourable for a number of years past and as a result annual production has been falling short of the targets set.

Although the weather during the 1966-67 season showed some improvement on 1965-66 it was not favourable for peat production. Output was higher than the previous year but the targets were not achieved except in the case of moss peat. Milled peat production, which amounted to approximately 2,000,000 tons, or 600,000 tons higher than in 1965-66, was 28 per cent below the target figure. Sod turf production also showed a slight increase on the previous year but at 750,000 tons was 17 per cent below target. As a result of the shortage of milled peat and the claims of the milled peat fired electricity generating stations, briquette production at 232,000 tons was eight per cent lower than in 1965-66, which was itself a bad year and 20 per cent short of the target. Production of moss peat, however, at 435,000 tons was 14 per cent higher than the previous year and three per cent more than the target figure. Moss peat production is not so vulnerable to weather conditions but unfortunately it represents only a small proportion of Bord na Móna's total annual output.

As a result of the bad weather and the resultant disappointing production figures the losses of Bord na Móna for the year amounted to £1,694,000 after allowing for payment of interest amounting to £1,271,000. The accumulated losses of Bord na Móna at 31st March, 1967 amounted to £4.1 million; this raises the question of the future financial position of the Board and the matter is at present being examined by my Department and the Department of Finance.

The succession of bad summers has caused the Board to consider alternative methods of milled peat production which might be less affected by adverse weather conditions. A new system—the "foidin" method—is being developed which involves the harvesting of milled peat by a process of extrusion in small sods which will dry rapidly and will reduce losses caused by wind and moisture absorbtion. Extensive tests of this method were carried out this year and the results proved promising in medium and good quality peat. A total of 85,000 tons was harvested by this method. The number of "foidin" machines used this year was 15; next year the number will be increased to 25 and half a million tons will be harvested. Future production at Bellacorrick will be based largely on the new system. Three machines will continue on experimental work and the future programme in the midlands and in poor quality areas will depend on the production results of next season.

The results generally for the 1967 harvesting season have shown considerable improvement. Production of machine turf is almost two per cent above the target figure and 21 per cent above last year's production. Production of milled peat which had been going well up to August was slowed down in that month owing to wet weather. At that stage, the Board had reached 85 per cent of the target for the season and the final figure for the season is 2,425,000 tons.

Of course, in the fuel market Bord na Móna meet heavy competition from other forms of fuel. The Board have no monopoly and the only assistance in the marketing field which they receive from the State is the assured market for fuel for turf-fired generating stations which Government policy has decided must be provided by the ESB. Despite this the Board can claim that they continue to enjoy a fair share of the domestic fuel market and their losses are attributable more to production difficulties than to any lack of demand for their products.

Bord na Móna moss peat is much used for agricultural and horticultural purposes. This product enjoys a growing demand not only in Ireland but also in Britain, particularly in the Channel Islands and also in the Mediterranean countries. Of 435,000 bales of this commodity produced by the Board in 1966-67, 339,720 bales were exported and with the increased production which is planned at the new Coolnamona factory, exports are expected to increase.

The stated policy in regard to Bord na Móna is clear from above observations. Until adverse weather conditions were continuous the company was remunerating its capital. As with all State companies, losses and deficits of one kind or another deprive the public of capital required for development of other services. Electricity costs must be kept down and the Electricity Supply Board's monopolistic position in regard to its supply cannot be exploited and in this Bord na Móna fully concurs. The Board and staff, I am sure, will strain every nerve to beat the weather by the adoption of new techniques. Meteorological statistics did not suggest any prolonged spell of cold summer weather so that the position they have been facing could not have been foreseen. Their previous record will be an inspiration to future effort.

Consumption of coal in 1966 was approximately 1.5 million tons or about seven per cent more than the previous year. The increased consumption was probably due to the inclement weather in the early part of the year. Native production remained fairly constant at about 180,000 tons. During the year, however, shortages in the home supply of suitably graded anthracite occurred and had to be made good by increased imports.

Total consumption of primary energy in terms of coal equivalent in 1966 was of the order of 7 million tons, representing an increase of some 20 per cent over the past five years. About one-third of our energy requirements are supplied from native sources—turf, hydro power and native coal. We have virtually reached the limit of exploitation of our native energy sources and imported fuels will, therefore, supply a gradually increasing proportion of our growing energy needs in the years ahead. Oil, which is now the greatest single source of energy in this country, supplies almost 50 per cent of our energy requirements and is expected to supply about 70 per cent by 1980.

The fuel efficiency scheme provides for payment of half the cost of fuel efficiency surveys carried out in Irish factories and continues to operate. The object of the scheme is to encourage consumers to obtain expert advice on the efficient use of fuel. The number of grants approved for such surveys up to the end of March, 1967, was 86, amounting to a total of nearly £20,000. This country produces only a relatively small proportion of fuel requirements and is very much dependent on imports of coal and oil, the net imports of which now amount to £30 million annually. This consideration and the fact that this country's requirements of primary energy are increasing at a rate of from four per cent to five per cent annually underline the importance from the point of view of the national economy of the efficient utilisation of fuel. About a quarter of the primary energy required by this country is consumed by industry. Fuel efficiency is particularly important in the case of our industries which now have to prepare to meet conditions of freer trade. Wasteful expenditure on fuel could price a product out of the export market. A survey report by the Economic and Social Research Institute has shown that the total fuel and power costs in all transportable goods industries in this country in 1962 amounted to over £11 million or six per cent of the net output.

The full advantage to be gained by the implementation of recommendations by consultants, as a result of surveys carried out, will not be achieved unless constant attention is given subsequently to plant and operational standards. It is, therefore, essential that management should keep constantly under review the performance of their power and heating plant and not hesitate to commission further surveys if necessary with a view to ensuring that their plant is operated to maximum efficiency. Earlier this year my Department sponsored a successful conference on fuel utilisation problems for works managers and plant engineers. These personnel are in a position to influence the managements of the concerns to whom they are responsible for the implementation of recommendations to secure the efficient use of fuel. My Department also sponsors a course of training for boiler operators. It will pay a grant of 50 per cent of the fee for the course in respect of every person who attends and will also where necessary, subsidise the course when held in a provincial centre so that the fee at each centre will be the same as the fee chargeable in Dublin.

I move the motion in the name of Deputy P. O'Donnell:

That the Vote be referred back for reconsideration.

The important place of tourism in the economy is emphasised by the report in the annual accounts of Bord Fáilte. The growth of the tourist trade in post-war years has been in many respects quite phenomenal. I remember nearly 20 years ago now, when the Marshall Aid programme was in operation here, an inquiry was conducted at that time by Mr. Christenberry and a team of experts from the United States who were assigned to him. They made a number of recommendations in regard to the potential and also the possibilities for expansion in the tourist trade. In the events that have happened since then, a great deal of the forecasts and recommendations made by the Christenberry Report have been implemented. In that report, and in discussions with Mr. Christenberry and his collaborators, emphasis was laid on the need for higher standards, on the importance, particularly in the peak season, of providing more accommodation in the cities and also in the tourist areas throughout the country.

A substantial development of the tourist trade as a result of the provision of better accommodation and increased facilities can, to a great extent, be attributed, not merely to the enterprise and initiative of hoteliers and guesthouse operators, but also to the directives and criteria laid down in the Christernberry Report. The present position marks a new stage in the tourist trade which seems to me to warrant some further consideration. There has been a very substantial increase in the amount of accommodation provided. In general, the facilities and services provided by hoteliers and guesthouse operators have greatly improved. That does not obviate the need for further improvement in a number of areas and a number of individual hotels and guesthouses, but it does emphasise the extent to which hotel owners, in most cases family-run concerns or privately-operated undertakings, have invested their capital and undertaken considerable risks even with the grant and loan facilities which are available.

Recently with some other Deputies, I had discussions with representatives of the Hotels Federation and they expressed some concern at the trend in the present development of package tours. While they welcomed the growth of this trade, they expressed concern at the fact that they were continuously under pressure to provide more and more accommodation, that a great deal of that pressure came from the air companies who were anxious to provide as much accommodation as possible for travellers, that the hotels had to take into account the fact that the season here was relatively short, and that despite the efforts made to extend it at either end by festivals or organisational or promotional drives of one sort or another, in fact the tourist season here, like that in other countries with similar climate and weather conditions, was to a great extent circumscribed by the weather and by the circumstances attendant on what is normally the summer holiday period.

These hoteliers, therefore, were concerned at the pressure to increase accommodation, at the substantial capital involved in providing the facilities required, and at the fact that they had to consider the seasonality of the short-term period and relate the prospect of a return on capital investment to alternative types of investment, and consider whether they were justified or would be justified in increasing the accommodation still further to the extent urged by the air companies in particular.

I believe this is one aspect of the question which requires the closest possible consultation and discussion between Bord Fáilte and the representatives of the hotel and catering trade. The extent to which increased accommodation can be provided by the hoteliers is governed by a number of factors. One of the factors that affected the development of this trade in recent years was the shortage of credit. A great many people found that when they sought facilities to provide increased accommodation, to modernise or develop or improve the hotel or guesthouse as the case might be, they were faced immediately with the problem of credit restrictions, the difficulty of getting money, and the prevailing high interest rate. In addition to that—and I feel this is one aspect of the matter that applies to improvements—is the question in individual cases of increased valuations.

In my constituency, in Dún Laoghaire, for a number of years the provision of increased accommodation has been undertaken to a great extent by privately-owned hotels, in the main family-run hotels, and by hotels operated by private companies. Recently when CIE announced the decision to establish a CIE hotel at Dún Laoghaire very considerable concern was expressed to me by the hoteliers who held a meeting to discuss that decision. I referred to the matter here by way of Parliamentary Question and I want to pursue it further in the course of the debate on this Estimate. Within the past two years, Bord Fáilte when approached for facilities to provide increased hotel accommodation or additional rooms in hotels in Dún Laoghaire informed the hoteliers—in fact, I was informed myself—that on the analysis made by Bord Fáilte over a recent period the hotel accommodation in the Dún Laoghaire area, with the exception of the peak period, was only a little over 50 per cent occupied. It is true that since the refusal of Bord Fáilte to grant facilities the car ferry service has extended its operations and the increase in the number of car tourists has to some extent meant an improvement. Nevertheless, the hoteliers in Dún Laoghaire find that a great many of the tourists stop for only a very brief period and then move on. I should like to hear from the Minister the circumstances in which it was decided that there is justification for a State subsidised company to go into competition with private enterprise where the job has already been satisfactorily done by private enterprise. This is not on all-fours with the existing CIE hotels because the existing Great Southern hotels were all in existence when CIE acquired the old Great Southern Railway Company. They were originally established by that company in the different areas in which they are located.

And the Midland Great Western.

And, as Deputy Dillon says, the Midland Great Western. So far as I am aware from discussions I have had with hoteliers and guesthouse proprietors, there is ample reasonably priced accommodation in Dún Laoghaire and the surrounding area for tourists. I should be interested to hear what up-to-date statistics warrant the change of attitude because I understand from what the Minister said in reply to a supplementary question that CIE will be entitled to whatever grants are available in respect of this hotel. Yet, within the last two years, existing hoteliers who applied for grant and loan facilities were refused by Bord Fáilte on the ground that the existing accommodation and the existing facilities in Dún Laoghaire were more than adequate to meet the demand.

It is, in my opinion, essential at this juncture to look carefully at the direction in which future development in relation to tourism is undertaken. It may be only temporary, and we naturally hope it will be only temporary, but there was a decline last year, for the first time in a period of approximately ten years, in the tourist trade. In the immediate post-war years there was a sharp increase in the number of tourists. Then, for a period in the fifties there was a slight downward tendency. Since then the trend has been the other way. I believe there is still a considerable prospect of extending and developing our tourist potential. This is a feature of our economy which provides a good return for a relatively low investment. That aspect has been emphasised by Bord Fáilte reports.

One of the factors motivating us in our initial discussions with the Marshall Aid representatives was the tourist potential development as a prospective currency earner of some considerable magnitude, and all for a relatively low investment. A very considerable increase has taken place in the accommodation provided and it seems to me that one aspect of this which requires some consideration is the importance of keeping our eye on the average tourist. That has been made abundantly clear from discussions with representatives of the hotel and catering trade. A great deal of the publicity by Bord Fáilte seems to me to emphasise to an excessive extent the attractions for the wealthy tourist. While everyone is anxious to get as many wealthy tourists as possible the average tourist is, from the point of view of the economy, the best investment. The numbers of wealthy tourists, or those in a position to pay very high prices for a certain type of accommodation, are not large.

One of the factors which the representatives of the Hotel Federation brought before us in discussions was the greatly increased number of package tours and tours organised as groups. They freely admitted that a number of the more expensive hotels which did not in the past cater for this particular type of tourist were now catering for them because they recognised that the market for the wealthy tourist was a relatively limited one; the average type of tourist was not only more numerous but also provided the best return. Discussions between Bord Fáilte and representatives of the hotel and allied trades in relation to any development which may take place is of very great importance from the point of view of progress in the tourist trade.

Fáilte reports and in the Minister's speech to resort development. This is a development for which Bord Fáilte provide facilities and considerable improvements have been made in a great number of localities. We are all familiar with the types of scheme resulting in improvements in different resorts and scenic areas. There is, however, a change in one respect which certainly calls for consultation with local interests and with residents. I refer to the new planning schemes which will come into operation under the Planning and Development Act.

I find that in many localities there is a reaction against planning because of the effect that it has had on development and the refusal to permit people to carry out certain work. I believe this can be avoided if there is proper consultation. Most people recognise the need for planning requirements, the need to restrict undesirable development of one sort or another, the need to insure that if development takes place it takes place in circumstances in which damage will not be caused to the amenities or to the scenic beauties of particular areas. To that extent it seems to me that the advice, recommendations and experience of Bord Fáilte can be of benefit to localities. I know from discussion with Members of certain local authorities that they have held joint discussions, on the spot discussions, with residents and interested parties affected by a decision to operate particular aspects of the planning schemes. The result of that has shown that if it is not always possible to get agreement, at any rate people understand the reason for particular decisions and in a number of cases it is possible because of the consultation and discussions to work out an arrangement which is satisfactory to the various interests concerned. I believe, therefore, that in this matter consultation is essential, particularly in respect of the scenic areas, our coastal regions like parts of Kerry, Galway, Mayo, and, of course, many others. There is no doubt that these matters require close consultation with the interests concerned.

It was for that reason that we introduced here among other things the proposal to transfer planning decisions from the Minister for Local Government to an appeal tribunal. We have had in my own constituency recently considerable criticism of the fact that, although the Dún Laoghaire Corporation refused permission in respect of a proposed new hotel, on appeal the Minister for Local Government gave outline permission for the proposal. While the statutory responsibility for these matters is not a function of the Minister for Transport and Power I feel that there is in this regard a need for consultation with either the Department of Transport and Power or representatives of Bord Fáilte and the Minister for Local Government and the local authority. In this particular case on the Vico Road, Dalkey, both Bord Fáilte and the Dún Laoghaire Corporation had certain objections in respect of traffic but also objected to the proposal on the grounds that it was regarded as an interference with the scenic beauty of the area. I believe that if plans are to be operated in the way in which it is essential that they should operate that consultation between bodies like Bord Fáilte and the Department of Local Government and the Department of Transport and Power as well as the local authority is necessary.

The question of CIE pensioners and redundancy compensation is one that has been raised here on a number of occasions. I feel very strongly that the attitude adopted by CIE and by the Department of Transport and Power in this matter has not been by any means as satisfactory as it should have been so far as redundant employees are concerned. There are two aspects of this. There are the appallingly low pensions which are being paid by CIE in respect of a number of pensioners. The argument against increasing these pensions is that they are the appropriate rate of pension based on the contribution, whatever it was, which these retired CIE employees originally contributed on the basis of their employment in some of the acquired undertakings, in the main the old Great Southern Railway but possibly some of the Midland and Great Western Railways also. The fact is that in those days pension schemes were the exception rather than the rule. When these schemes were initially provided the cost of living in the main was stable and the value of money was constant. It is unreasonable to suggest that because they contributed at a low rate, that because the scheme as originally drafted provided for a particular rate of benefit, that it should remain at that level when the cost of living has risen.

There is another aspect of this matter that should be faced squarely in respect of at least two companies which we are considering today. CIE is one, Bord na Móna is another. There is a large social element involved in the subsidy. I believe the time has come when we should squarely face the fact that we are paying a subsidy in respect of the uneconomic aspect of CIE services because of the service which has to be provided in remote or uneconomic areas. The same is true in respect of fuel that is bought by the ESB from Bord na Móna. It would be far better to be honest about this——

Hear, hear.

——and say: "This is a social service. This is a State subsidy to help uneconomic areas"—instead of going on with the myth that they are trying—naturally CIE are trying—to keep the losses down. They are trying to operate efficiently and in respect of a great deal of their undertaking it is run efficiently. I remember many years ago in Government when we had to discuss the question of the CIE subsidy the late William Norton, Lord rest him, and before him I think Dan Morrissey came in and described what happened in respect of goods consigned by well-known companies here. They sent their own lorries into an area—the place I have in mind is, I think, Claremorris — and distributed goods there and then they had a consignment for somewhere 20 miles further on. They handed that over to CIE because it was uneconomic and CIE were expected to deliver that. The railway-line still ran to wherever it was at the time. That is one of the facts of these areas and it is time we faced up to it. There is ample justification for a subsidy of a social kind in respect of certain areas served by CIE and in respect of Bord na Móna. We should admit at this stage that this is a subsidy, it is a social service, it is provided as such and up to a certain level that is what the Government and the Dáil regard as appropriate.

I have digressed from the point I wanted to make in connection with CIE pensioners. It is obvious that a great deal of the present CIE losses which for many years now have run around the £2 million mark—they go up and down slightly, perhaps £1,600,000 one year and £2 million, £3 million to £4 million—but the average for some years has been around £2 million. If there is that element of State subsidy in it, there is no doubt that the relatively insignificant sum involved to pay adequate pensions to CIE pensioners can be justified. I do not think CIE, the Department of Transport and Power or the Minister appreciate the conditions in which most of those people found themselves. Some of them retired almost ten years ago. I have met repeated deputations from groups of elderly men who were anxious to make settlements so that they could allocate portion of their pension and redundancy allowance in respect of their wives. I remember one person, who was the chief spokesman, coming to me and saying that some of those people had died, that they had retired four or five years ago and the compensation was never settled. As a result of that those people were never able to make what they considered was the best arrangement for their widows.

This person retired in 1957 or 1958. I had many discussions with him. He often said to me: "Many of us may die before this is settled." I made repeated representations to the Department of Transport and Power, to CIE and the arbitrator. This person died without making a settlement. There is no justification for not bringing this matter to a conclusion. It is not enough to pass legislation and allow those people to go to the courts. Those are retired pensioners on small pensions. I know if there is a case for deciding this matter in a particular way the expenses of the court application will be met but elderly people who are on pension are not the type of people who should be worried or annoyed. Many of those people have been particularly worried by the anxiety they have to face in not knowing what the ultimate arrangement would be in respect of their widows should they die before settlement. I would like to urge on the Minister, even at this late stage, that some effective action would be taken to deal with the situation in respect of those people.

The other aspect of this matter of CIE I was surprised the Minister did not touch on was the question of the Tavistock report in respect of Dublin busmen. I understand from some reference that was made here on an earlier occasion in regard to this matter that discussions and consultations were proceeding with the management, the trade unions and the staff of CIE in respect of this matter. This was a very exhaustive report. The matter was fully investigated. The findings on the various matters which were the subject of investigation by the team which examined this were looked at. There is one thing in it which is worth noting. It says that the morale is low. They say: "We think the way in which the work situation is proceeding is predominantly negative and without exaggeration our findings can be regarded as disquieting." They went on to say that there were certain aspects of this matter which afforded grounds for some hope of improvement and they said they wished to stress: "In our judgment the determining factor of the status of busmen is such that if an effective change in the morale is to be achieved it is essential that all problems be tackled simultaneously and involved in this was the management of the company, the trade unions and the busmen or employees." I should be interested to hear from the Minister what steps have been taken and what improvements are hoped for in respect of the inquiry conducted by the Tavistock Institute in this matter and what changes are anticipated.

I can answer that now. Many changes have taken place already.

I am glad to hear that. There is another aspect of the Supplementary Estimate in respect of holiday accommodation in western counties that I wish to advert to. I believe this is a development which should offer improved prospects in the western areas. In fact, one of the recommendations which Fine Gael made last year was to develop the tourist potential in the Gaeltacht areas. In our recommendations at that time we expressed the view that it was possible to provide chalets or accommodation, through Bord Fáilte or Roinn na Gaeltachta, to assist people in the Gaeltacht who wish to provide holiday accommodation and provide facilities for tourists in their own homes.

We believed there were two aspects of this matter that afforded prospects for development in the Gaeltacht areas. The first was the actual holiday accommodation for the holiday or tourist season and the other was the provision of facilities on an all the year round basis for school children from other areas who wish to go to the Gaeltacht to study Irish. The proposed recommendations which we made at the time were to provide chalets or give grants to the owners of houses and farms or residents in the Gaeltacht in order to make those facilities available.

The all the year round course would have to be undertaken in conjunction with arrangements made by the Department of Education, but it seemed to us that there was every reason for developing an all the year round traffic in respect of children to the Gaeltacht so as to make the accommodation available for the holiday period to other visitors. I do not know to what extent details have been worked out, but I notice that there is an additional sum of £100,000 provided in the Supplementary Estimate. We believe that this is a practical way of helping the Gaeltacht. It is a way, without considerable expenditure, where it is possible to provide a direct means of economic advantage and economic prospects to the people living in the Gaeltacht. It has the additional advantage, in respect of children, of enabling them to go to the Gaeltacht either to attend school for a period or attend Irish courses whilst living in the Gaeltacht among the people who speak Irish as their home language.

In the course of his speech the Minister referred to the Shannon Free Airport. I should like to refer to a matter which was referred to here yesterday in the course of the debate on the Estimate for the Department of Industry and Commerce. Recently the Minister for Education went to Limerick and delivered some form of address in which he said consideration was being given to providing the same rate of grants in respect of Limerick and Ennis as were available at Shannon Airport. I, in common with a number of Deputies on many occasions here, advocated that, with the exception of the actual airport facilities, there was a much stronger case for developing the potential of Limerick and Ennis economically and providing them with facilities than in respect of Shannon. As I understand it, there are difficulties in this matter. First of all, some of the facilities can only be provided in respect of an airport or a port and, obviously, you cannot have facilities all over the place in respect of the services or the concessions that are provided at a port where there is an airport or any other kind of port. Consequently there would appear to be difficulties.

Whatever about Limerick, Ennis is not a port and there would be obvious restrictions. I should like to know what investigation is being conducted into providing some of these grant facilities for Limerick and Ennis. As I understand the terms of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement, there is a restriction in respect of certain facilities, in respect of assistance to industry which will not apply until 1975, with an extension, as far as I can recollect, up to 1983 in respect of Shannon Airport.

Is it proposed to extend the facilities that were apparently indicated by the Minister for Education? I understand he said the matter had been brought—and he spoke a few weeks ago—before the Government six weeks before that, which was about the beginning of September, a very significant date in some respects, and that the matter was then being considered. As I understand there is a definite limitation under the terms of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement in respect of these facilities, I think it is strange that there was no definite statement by the Minister in the course of his reference to the Shannon Free Airport about this investigation or examination, or contemplated development if one were to believe what the Minister for Education said in this matter. I would be glad to hear, when the Minister is replying, what exactly is being done and what decision is likely to be reached on the matter.

With regard to the ferry service at Dún Laoghaire the Minister will be aware that some years ago the Department of Finance, or the Office of Public Works, the authority responsible for Dún Laoghaire harbour, indicated that it was proposed to undertake a major scheme of development there. As I understand it, the development scheme which is at present in the course of completion in respect of the car ferry service is a distinct and separate scheme, and I would be anxious to know from the Minister what proposals there are for the further development and extension of the facilities available in Dún Laoghaire harbour.

The harbour is in every way a satisfactory one. The prospect of increased employment in the harbour as a result of this proposed development was anticipated by a number of people in the area seeking employment, and it was understood that the total development work would run into some hundreds of thousands of pounds to provide new deep water facilities. I have never been clear whether the ferry service was in substitution for or in addition to this or whether it is proposed to undertake this particular work.

There are two other matters to which I should like to refer. There is the substantial increase of 7 per cent in the ESB charges, although there was a sort of explanation that the Board were prepared to defer the application of increased charges in respect of the wholesale tax. The fact is that the ESB charges have increased 7 per cent.

The other matter to which I should like to refer is in respect of Bord na Móna briquettes. Up to recently, certainly last winter, it was difficult to get briquettes. They were in short supply and could only be got in small lots and were very often not available. I understand they are again freely available, with the change that the price has recently increased by approximately £1 per ton. That is a substantial increase. If briquettes are to remain, as up to now they have been, effectively able to compete with alternative fuel it is essential that supplies should be constant and that when supplies become available they should not be accompanied by such a substantial increase in price as has recently occurred.

In so far as the ESB is concerned, the increase in cost may be attributed to a number of factors but I believe the time has come when we should grasp the problem and admit that, in respect of CIE and the ESB, what, in effect, is a social subsidy should be recognised and accepted as such and if necessary charged as a special Vote. It seems to me that at the moment we are getting the worst of all worlds. We are operating on the assumption that they are operating economically while at the same time everyone knows the subsidy is a social subsidy to deal with problems in a particular area, a subsidy that is appropriate in the circumstances but not described in the way in which it is in respect of the Vote concerned.

I feel I should compliment the Minister on the manner in which he circulated the speech in respect of this Estimate. It augurs very well and is an indication of his mind on the matter. In saying that I am not saying that I agree with the manner in which he is doing his job or carrying out the various aspects of it. He has commenced a commendable habit, if you like, and I hope it will continue. I should like to see other Ministers take a leaf from his book in that regard.

From whose book?

The Minister for Transport and Power.

From whose book?

I agree; full marks to you. Reading through the Estimate, I noticed the Minister's point about foreign tour operators but there is an absence of information on the arrangements in connection with them. For instance, have foreign tour bodies the same facilities here, and is there reciprocation, as our tour operators have when they go outside the country occasionally to operate?

On the general question of public transport I was surprised to find that as a result of some sort of investigation the Minister found that only 11 per cent of the people are obliged to change buses to get to their final destinations in the city of Dublin. I do not know if this survey was restricted to a particular time of day but certainly the result is incorrect in so far as the majority of the outlying districts in Dublin are concerned, particularly getting to work in the morning and going home in the evening. It is well known that people living in Finglas have to get two buses; the same applies to people in Cabra, in Ballyfermot, in Walkinstown—in fact, it applies right through the fringe areas of the city.

I imagine the Minister's figure is the result of an over-all calculation, taking into consideration what occurs during the day, in the morning and in the evening. I do not think it is the manner in which important calculations of this kind should be made and I should like the Minister to indicate exactly what the position is.

He indicated there has been a falling off in revenue in the operation of CIE services. In this respect it is important to bear in mind that CIE provide an essential social service, something that has got to be there for the lessfortunate people who have not got any means of conveyance than that provided by CIE. There appears to be a trend developing in CIE, certainly in so far as Dublin city is concerned, which results in the allocating of buses to particular routes on the basis of the amount of revenue taken. This is not fair. It does not apply throughout, in all districts—some areas are well serviced and a considerable number of people have cars in certain localities.

However, the section in CIE responsible for the allocation of bus routes have had insistent representations made to them on the important matter of providing adequate transport services by various residents and tenants associations in the different areas of the city. There are continual complaints about the inadequacy of bus services. This applies not only to buses in the morning when people are attempting to get to work; it also applies to the evening when people are trying to get home in time to be able to have a meal and get out to enjoy the evening later. I know of people who because of the lack of adequate bus services in the morning have been late for work, have suffered loss of pay and even have lost their employment.

Recently members of the Cabra Branch of the Labour Party met representatives of CIE on the question of bus services to Cabra East and West. We made a certain amount of progress. We raised many points which we were told would be investigated, but apparently nothing could be done about delays between buses. We made the point that there was far too much delay and we submitted that the obvious way to remedy the matter was to advise people who lost pay or their employment to send on the bill to CIE who, if they were given that type of headache, might do more than they are doing now.

I hope the Minister will consider these points. His opening statement was a reasonably comprehensive one on the running of CIE, but he did not indicate in it if he has in mind plans to increase the wages and improve the working conditions of CIE employees. He did not indicate that he is in a position, as things improve, to improve also the workers' conditions. Has he any proposals in mind to improve the lot of CIE pensioners, to close the gap between what they get and the cost of living? These are big questions. The workers in permanent employment can be catered for by trade union negotiations and it would be a nice thing if there was a gesture from the State now and again indicating greater interest in the working people, bearing in mind again that the eye should not be on profits, CIE being a social service.

Reading the Minister's statement I did not find any reference to the CIE catering service, Ostlanna Iompair Éireann. I fail to find any indication of proposals to improve the service, to give better facilities to travellers who are obliged to avail of catering on trains. Has the Minister any indication from those responsible for the catering services that anything will be done about the prices charged, in particular for drink, even for bottles of minerals? Could he indicate CIE intentions concerning prices chargeable in the luxury hotels, or whether the ordinary man in the street can ever aspire to stay in a CIE hotel?

Recently it was announced by the Managing Director, Mr. Frank Lemass, that CIE intended to arrange for the building of a number of hotels or motels, one in Dún Laoghaire. In that announcement no indication was given of the expected number of staff who will be required in such an establishment, what type of employment will be given, whether it will be for a couple of months each year or on a round-the-year basis. The charge for an over-night stay was indicated. Are we, therefore, to take it that it will be simply a bed-and-breakfast establishment in Dún Laoghaire? What effect will this have on the other hotels there? I am sure the Minister is aware that the season just passed had been a bad one for Dún Laoghaire hoteliers.

This has been attributed to the much-boosted car ferry that has come about in Dún Laoghaire. It has been found to be the experience of a Dún Laoghaire hotelier that the cars drive off to other parts of the country and, even at the height of the season, leave a lot of vacant bedrooms in Dún Laoghaire. If this is so, can we see any good reason for the creation of more bedrooms by CIE in that area? What will the position be? Will they take away the amount of business that far too many people in Dún Laoghaire are trying to share among them, on the results of last season? The planning in this regard leaves a lot to be desired. I wonder at the failure of CIE—and, indeed, Bórd Fáilte comes into this— to have a consultation beforehand in relation to this venture with interested parties such as hoteliers in the Dún Laoghaire area and the trade union that represents the catering workers.

The Minister refers to the car ferry. We understand there will be greater development in that regard. I notice that he singles out Verolme Dockyard for attention. What is wrong with the Liffey Dockyard? I hope I am wrong, but I am inclined to surmise that because we have a Taoiseach who comes from Cork all this type of work is channelled into Cork. In Dublin, we have a dockyard which has been in existence for a long number of years. It is slowly dying because of the absence of support from the various shipping interests that operate from the City of Dublin, including those in which the State have an interest. I trust the Minister will set about giving some work to the Liffey Dockyard to bring relief there.

I agree with the Minister that there are likely to be more efficient vessels for the carrying of livestock. Such a situation is long overdue and has repeatedly been demanded by people who work on cattle-carrying vessels from the Port of Dublin—dockers, in particular, and the men who look after the cattle. They have been crying out for this improvement and any constructive effort in that regard is very welcome.

The Minister refers to Irish Shipping and indicates the losses to that company. What effect, if any, have these losses had on employment? A large factor in this is the chartering of foreign ships to carry our materials and the freight charges demanded by such people.

I wish to ascertain the duties or responsibilities of a harbour master in relation to wages and wage negotiations. Up to the present, anyhow, it has been understood that he did not have a great interest in them and, in particular, that he did not have the responsibility of discussing wages and conditions affecting dock workers. Quite recently, representatives of a trade union were advised that the harbour master from the Galway area obtained permission from the Minister for Transport and Power for responsibility for arranging wages and conditions of dockers operating in that area. This is an innovation and we should be told about it. On page 18, the Minister refers to investment grants and loans to the Irish shipping industry. Having regard to what I have said about the Liffey Dockyard, would the Minister make some stipulation that some ships will be built in the Liffey Dockyard?

I come now to the operation of our airlines. Most people are pleased with the manner in which our air services are operating. I must make an inquiry, at this point, about a statement by the new General Manager, Mr. Dargan, that there is a great need for more hotels. He indicated, too, that a hotel adjoining Dublin Airport is necessary to cater for a certain number of people. I am anxious to ascertain the origin of these calculations. To whom does one turn for such information or, for that matter, from whom did Mr. Dargan get the idea? I am aware, from inquiries I have made, that no consultation has been indulged in with the hoteliers or the trade unions concerned.

I am aware, too, that Irish Airlines have a very big interest in the InterContinental Hotel. There is State money in that hotel. It would now appear that there will be competition against that hotel. I am not favouring that hotel in particular, but I wonder if we have need of a new hotel, bearing in mind that there is a complaint that Irish Airlines are not getting enough business. What they are getting by way of business covers only a few months and it is not spread out. A number of our planes are out of commission in our off-season. I understand they are rented to foreign airlines. What element of profit is there from the hiring-out of our Irish planes to South American firms, and so on? Have any arrangements been made about the particular care of our planes by these South American and other firms which hire them out? Is the hiring-out of our planes a worthwhile economic operation? Are we satisfied that the machines are not over-used so that what we get by way of rental is more or less offset by what we lose on repairs?

I should like some information about the development company at Shannon Free Airport. We should, by now, be more discerning in regard to the types of interests and business firms we invite there. We must take into consideration our past and some of our present experience. It is known that a number of these firms have come here in the belief that not only would they be given grants and other facilities but that the wages and conditions they would be required to provide for their employees would be the minimum and would not in any way be related to those obtaining in other places. This has been borne out by the attitude adopted by some of those business people. On occasions they blatantly refused to have anything to do with trade union organisations. A number of them are anti-union. These people must be made realise that this is a nation in which trade unionism is recognised and encouraged.

The Minister referred to duty free shops at Dublin and Shannon airports. I wonder is it right to use the expression "duty free"? I have had the experience of passing through these shops and I have met a lot of people who bought goods in these shops. These people expressed disappointment at the prices they were charged, having regard to the fact that they were duty free shops. If comparison is made with the prices charged you will find that in some cases you will get articles cheaper in the city of Dublin than in the duty free shops at Dublin or Shannon airport. This is wrong. If we are going to have them duty free then let them be duty free and let us not simply be finding ways and means of circumventing the position and disappointing travellers, because it has a bad effect on tourists.

In regard to tourism generally, we cannot commend too much the activities of the Regional Tourism organisations. Undoubtedly, they are doing a very good job. However, I wonder if there is sufficient liaison between such bodies and Bord Fáilte. At times I am of the opinion that there is a shedding of responsibility on the part of Bord Fáilte, leaving people to do something and hoping that they will do it. At the same time, it must be borne in mind that the Regional Tourism organisations are operating on a voluntary basis, they have to pay staff but the money is subscribed.

One of the burning questions at the moment is the matter of increased tourist accommodation. I am pleased that we have continued to improve our income as far as tourism is conerned but I am concerned about the continued references to increased accommodation while at the same time there is no indication given about where this will be put into operation or how and when it is going to be utilised. It is evident that people who carry out surveys of this kind and produce calculations about additional accommodation, by way of extra bedrooms and more hotels, produce these calculations without reference to all the interests of the tourist industry. Repeatedly the trade unions with an interest in tourism, which look after the interest of those workers, have had consultations with representatives of Bord Fáilte with a view to ascertaining what this speculation about increased accommodation means in so far as cities are concerned. An attempt has been made to find out what effect this is going to have on the continuity of employment of the catering workers. This is very important particularly when it is borne in mind that the catering worker, day after day, is being urged—and rightly so—to become more efficient in his or her work.

We have in operation a council of education for training staff in the catering industry and that organisation is charged with responsibility for inducing people to come into the industry and for setting up training schemes with a view to enabling them to operate properly in their particular field. It is wrong to have this kind of operation, inducing young boys and girls to come into the industry, if on the one hand it is going to have the result that these young boys and girls can only get a few months work in the year. You cannot expect boys to opt to become waiters or chefs, or girls to become waitresses, female cooks or barmaids, if they are going to have this insecurity of only having a few months work. I would go along with this suggestion of providing increased accommodation in regard to certain parts but not for having it put into effect in an indiscriminate fashion. That is absolutely wrong. Those of us associated with the industry know that at the height of the season last year there were vacancies in some of the city hotels. This is because more and more hotels are being built.

I can understand that the Minister cannot stop a private individual from building a new hotel but there is the matter of grants. The case should be explained to the individual because the position is going to reach saturation point, not only for the workers but for the employers. City hoteliers are alarmed about this type of situation. Providing additional bedrooms where there is a demand for them is one thing but the creation of new hotels where a great number already exist, sufficient to meet the demand, is a different matter. I hold that when spokesmen of CIE, Aer Lingus, or Bord Fáilte start talking about additional hotels they should be able to spell out the labour potential, to say that these are likely to give so much employment. When a factory is in contemplation we are told that it will employ so many workers but we are never given that information about a new hotel. It is absolutely wrong and we should be given it. How can we be given it? I hold that there must be consultations between Bord Fáilte and CERT. There is no point in the two working in different directions. CERT has among its representatives people from both sides of the industry and they could have consultations with their respective sides in order to have a full understanding about this matter.

In saying this I am not attempting to decry tourism. I recognise its importance to our economy. If we are going to make real progress we will have to perfect ourselves in every sphere and the more efficient the catering workers are—they are the backbone of the industry—the better. You will not get them if you are only going to give them a few months work in the year. There are parts of the country in which you could not operate an hotel all the year round. This is a problem the industry is prepared to face up to. Arrangements could be made for people in such areas to work as they do in England and in other places, by the industry making these parts seasonal areas. I cannot emphasise that point too much because it is hurting catering workers very much. A few years ago we had a spate of emigration from the catering industry when workers went to England, America, and Canada. This had a bad effect on the industry and we do not want that to happen again because tourism looms so large that it has now become more important than agriculture. It is imperative that we hold on to the people employed in it now.

In his speech, when dealing with the activities of Bord Fáilte, the Minister referred to the annual co-ordination meeting held by the Board. He said:

The efforts of Bord Fáilte and other State organisations to develop tourism would, of course, be ineffective were it not for the enterprise and co-operation of the private sector. This covers a wide range of interests — the hotel and catering industry, transport, the licensed trade, trade unions, the car rental industry, caravan interests, travel agents, festival committees and many other groups of commercial interests and community development organisations. Bord Fáilte recognise the important role of all these interests and the annual tourism co-ordination meetings organised by the Board provide an opportunity for a complete and valuable exchange of views on all aspects of tourist development.

I trust we do not pin all our hopes on these annual meetings. They are not all they should be, because not all the interests involved are brought together. Too much is expected to be done in one day. The meetings simply afford officials of Bord Fáilte an opportunity to make statements, answer a few questions and then go on to the next item. This is not a proper system of co-ordination. I have repeatedly advocated at these annual meetings that, along with those invited, there should be invited also representatives of the Federated Union of Employers representing the drapery trade and the grocery trade, people who carry on businesses the tourists make immediate use of. I also advocated that representatives of the public houses should be brought in, and they were at the last meeting. I hold it would be much better if we had quarterly meetings of sections of the tourist industry who could get down to the problems affecting themselves. Subsequently we could bring them all together at a co-ordinating meeting with a view to having understanding between one section and another. Then we might get somewhere. You can talk your head off about this, but it is really a matter of who makes the decision. Up to the present there has been no indication of a change.

When dealing with Bord Fáilte also the Minister did not give us any information about the set-up there, how one obtains employment with Bord Fáilte and, in particular, how one obtains promotion. Is it right that if you are already employed in Bord Fáilte you can be promoted up to a certain stage only? After that, if an appointment is to be made, it goes outside. This is most discouraging. Bord Fáilte is a comparatively new concern. The techniques are improving and with experience we are getting to know a little more about the opertion of tourism. Many capable young men in Bord Fáilte who would have been fit for promotion have been passed over. We have lost many of them because they could not get promotion and saw other people being promoted over their heads.

One of the most disgraceful happenings in this regard was the appointment last year of a general manager for North America. This appointment aroused a great deal of interest throughout the tourist industry and there was much speculation as to who would get it. The then general manager was brought home and given another job here. Everybody expected to see this important job being advertised in the newspapers, but no such thing happened. The job was filled by a high-ranking member of the Fianna Fáil Party, a subscriber to Taca, one of the fund raisers for Fianna Fáil. He is also a man who supplies transport in abundance for by-elections and general elections.

The Deputy knows that has nothing to do with me what ever.

It is only a coincidence?

I had nothing to do with the appointment of the person. I made no representations, nor did any person or Minister in the Fianna Fáil Party.

The Minister can deal with this when he is replying. It is about time somebody had an explanation about this matter. It was not possible to get by means of question the information I am now looking for. I was trying to find out who made the appointment in this case, what system was employed to select the man for the job, what qualifications would one have to have and what would the salary be. I could not get that either in the House or from Bord Fáilte itself. There was a great mystery about this job. There was much speculation among people who have been years in this industry that a comparative newcomer to tourism could come in and get this job. If this is not job fixing, I do not know what it is. It is political patronage.

There was no political patronage whatever. No pressure was brought to bear by any person.

Why was it not advertised?

I want to find out the qualifications required for this job and why only one person was afforded an opportunity of getting it. Can I be told now that this person has ceased his activities to raise funds for Fianna Fáil, or is he doing it in America? How come that the former general manager in America who was taken back here is now in America again assisting the man who got the job handed to him by the Government? This is an absolute fact. It is undeniable. That sort of thing does not give confidence. It is a disgraceful happening. It is poor encouragement to the many people, irrespective of politics, who have been working wholeheartedly in this country in the interests of tourism. I have come across, the Minister has come across and undoubtedly the director general of Bord Fáilte has come across, very capable people operating in the tourist industry as employers or employers' representatives who could very easily have taken this job and who have admitted to me they would have been interested in it had they known they could have applied for it. However, there was no advertisement in the newspapers, and I say that is shocking. I should like to know now what is the salary, what are the conditions attaching to the job, for how long will it last? We are entitled to know these things, and if what I have said is not correct let it be contradicted. That is the obvious thing to do.

Another matter I am concerned about in Bord Fáilte is this king-making or empire-building that is going on at the moment. I do not know if the Minister realises by now, but if you take Bord Fáilte into consideration and set out to make a comparison you will find the set-up to be exactly similar to a Cabinet. There is the equivalent of the minister for this, the minister for that and the minister for the other thing, and you are left wondering who is doing what and what job the head man is doing. I want to implore the Minister to look into this matter and to ensure that the staff in Bord Fáilte are encouraged to aspire to greater heights irrespective of politics, and that such people can have an opportunity of becoming heads of sections.

The Minister gave us a report of what happened in connection with the ESB charges, and on page 47 of his speech he said it had been decided to seek permission to increase ESB charges by seven per cent. The Minister has a penchant for telling people what to do and how to behave, the excuse he offers for doing so being that it is in the interest of maintaining order and keeping things right. The Minister ought to change the habit he started in connection with increased charges. What happened? He instituted the charge and then asked for permission from the Prices Advisory Body.

What effect could that have on the ordinary man in the street, when a man running a concern like the ESB decides to increase charges by seven per cent and asks his pal, the Minister for Industry and Commerce, is it all right? How can you encourage people to have confidence in or to support the idea of a prices commission in that situation? If employers want to increase prices they are told they must make a case, just as the workers have to make a case for an increase in wages. Why did the Minister not do exactly the same thing? What transpired?

On page 47 of his speech the Minister admits that when the decision came about it was not necessary for them to do all they had planned to do. Does this mean that the calculations that were made by the ESB people who prepared this submission were all wrong and that they should never have advocated this increase? It strikes me as most peculiar, and I submit that if the ordinary employer or the ordinary co-operative ran their business in that fashion, the first one to admonish them would be the Minister for Transport and Power, because he has a great knack for criticising people whenever he can. It is nearly always the working man he picks out for this criticism, telling him he should not be looking for something because it is not very much in his interest. I would ask the Minister when he is making appeals to the workers as to how they should behave, to consider what he is a party to and what brings about the actions he is complaining about. A continuance of the one I have described in connection with Bord Fáilte does not inspire confidence in the minds of workers.

The Minister referred to Bord na Móna, and I want to take this opportunity of referring to the clerical dispute that occurred in Bord na Móna. I do not intend to talk about it at length, but wish to say that the labour relations in Bord na Móna, as far as clerical workers are concerned, are the most antiquated set-up that exists in this country or, I am sure, in any other country. The strike that occurred among clerical workers need never have happened if the workers and trade union representatives had been able to sit down and have consultations with the representatives of Bord na Móna who have power to negotiate.

Prior to the strike there was more than one occasion—I was a witness to it—when the representative of Bord na Móna concurred with suggestions made by the conciliation officer from the Labour Court and undertook to recommend the acceptance of these suggestions. There were also times when the workers' representatives were able to say: "Yes, without reference to our general body we can go along with this idea." The Bord na Móna representative finally said: "While this is all right in my opinion, I shall have to go back and get permission." Lo and behold, when he went back to get permission the answer was "No". Is it not an extraordinary situation that the people who said "No" could not be brought to the conference table? Surely this requires a shake-up. Who do these people think they are? Is it not reasonable to expect the man at the head of affairs to be present, particularly if he reserves to himself the right to decide what he will agree to and what he will not agree to? We all know that many things change at a conference table, and disputes can be avoided by an exchange of points of view. You cannot properly exchange a point of view with a person who is not present. You cannot run a business from a distance. I appreciate that the Minister cannot be there himself, but this is the reason why he has these various bodies: Bord Fáilte, Bord na Móna, Irish Shipping, Aer Lingus, C.I.E.

I would earnestly entreat the Minister to get the people who run the various sections coming under the Department of Transport and Power— Irish Shipping, B & I, CIE, Bord Fáilte, Bord na Móna, Aer Lingus, Aerlínte—to attend a seminar where they could exchange views and discuss labour relations. That would be more than useful. There are very excellent labour relations existing in some of these sections—in Aer Lingus, for instance— but the position is the direct opposite in Bord na Móna. I would appeal to the Minister to do something about that now.

I am not making this point for the sake of talking about it. I know what I am saying to be fact. If the person in charge in the case of Bord na Móna does not want to attend such a conference, the person sent to represent the Board should be given authority to negotiate and to agree to go a certain distance suggested by the chairman, the conciliation officer. Otherwise, the whole thing would be a farce and not in line with what is being preached by the Minister for Labour.

I would repeat my urgent appeal to the Minister to ensure the creation of a positive understanding between Bord Fáilte and certain hoteliers and the trade union movement in connection with staff training. The simple query is: training for what? I submit that we should all earnestly work for training all the year round and get away from the idea of trying to induce people to train for a couple of months.

One must feel that the Minister is entitled to a holiday after reading this voluminous document.

Hear, hear.

Page 36 of the document interests me most. On this page the Minister states that it is the intention of Bord Fáilte to develop inland areas for their scenic attraction and recreational facilities. This is a very good move on the part of Bord Fáilte. I referred to this matter last year. I mentioned that the people in the inland areas felt that a considerable amount of money was being spent along the coastline, which, of course, I added, was understandable because of the fact that these areas were traditional holiday resorts. It would be of interest to know how Bord Fáilte intend to develop and improve the inland areas. I hope it will be done on a regional basis so that each region can act independently and will not have to wait for another region to be fully developed. As far as the area I represent is concerned, the first consideration is the question of signposting. In this aspect of development, Bord Fáilte appear to be rather slow. Signposting is the first essential in the development of an area.

Hear, hear.

Signposting is necessary in order to convey to people how to get to the natural attraction in the most convenient manner. One wonders how on earth some signposts were sited. I refer to one which points up to the sky indicating Sligo. I do not understand the necessity for such signposts. It would be much better to place signposts where they are very badly needed.

Development of inland and new areas as tourist resorts must be based on farmhouses and guesthouses. As I understand it, somewhat higher standards are required in the case of a guesthouse than in the case of a farmhouse. I think it is correct to say that they must have running water. This represents a problem in some areas. It takes a fair share of money to develop a house as a guesthouse, to decorate, to provide bathroom and toilet facilities. The Regional Tourist Organisations should co-ordinate the various services. I refer, of course, to grants. If the people were made aware of the grants that are available, development would be much easier.

In the case of farmhouses, there is a somewhat lower standard but at the same time, a certain standard is expected. It is not clear from the Minister's statement as to whether farmhouses per se will be included for the purpose of the grants. I understand that up to this they did not qualify for any grant.

Questions are asked about these matters from time to time. People come to their public representative inquiring about grants for development of their farmhouse as a guesthouse. The information is vitally important and my experience is that it is difficult to get it and particularly difficult to get it coordinated and to convey it to the people concerned.

Reference has been made to car ferries and the number of cars carried on the ferries. Is there any record of the number of caravans carried on the ferries? This would be an interesting figure. I know of one place where a caravan site was suggested. If information were available as to the number of caravans arriving in the country and if it appeared that the number was increasing, the persons concerned would proceed with the development of that caravan site.

The Minister said that somewhat less spending took place last year in the tourist area and gave certain reasons for that. Those reasons did not include the reasons popularly ascribed, namely, that hotel charges are too high. The Minister gave figures to debunk this idea. He pointed out that a survey done by the Financial Times placed Dublin city in a good competitive position with other places. There is more to this question of price. There is the question of what you get. If you are hungry, you like to get an ample meal. If you go to a certain place and pay more than you might in another place, you expect a higher standard of service. In my experience in the higher class hotel, you do not get this standard of service. There is no excuse for the serving of cold soup. There is no excuse for the serving of cold coffee and there is no excuse for serving it a second time, as happened in my experience in a State hotel.

Serving what a second time?

Serving cold coffee a second time when attention had been drawn to the fact that the coffee was cold. Unfortunately, those of us who patronise these hotels at times bring visitors there—in the case I have mentioned they were visitors from the United States of America—and hope to make a good impression on them by bringing them to a first class hotel and the very opposite happens. That is not good enough.

Another thing that impressed me in the Minister's speech was that he mentioned an inquiry by the ESB into the special service charges. I should like more information about this. There are two aspects of this problem which present themselves to me. First, there are the people who have accepted electricity and who have paid these extra service charges. Would the investigation include those people with a hope of reducing their service charges? The second group of people, of which the Minister estimates that about eight per cent will not be receiving electricity at the end of three years because they are outside the usual run and because they come under the special service charges, will have to be considered. I think it would be the feeling of the House that the people already paying these extra service charges should also get consideration and that their service charges should be reduced.

There is another unenviable position that might arise following this investigation which I think should be avoided like the plague. It may well be said to those who already have taken electricity with extra service charges: "Very well; we will reduce your charges," and to the people who are unfortunate enough not to have taken electricity over the past years: "We will not give it to you now." That is a situation which certainly should be avoided.

Another thing that strikes me when I hear talk about the development of the ESB is the question of the use of oil. I often wonder what our position would be in time of war, because we are so dependent on oil. When a Middle-East crisis arose recently, the first crack we got was an increase in the price of petrol and oil. That has happened before. At the slightest stir in that area, there is an increase in the price of our fuels, and for some reason, it never seems to go back to what it was originally, or anything near it. If trouble were to flare up in the Middle-East, how would we stand? No doubt we would get petrol from the Americas and perhaps we might be able to get petrol from Africa. Suppose a world war arose on the scale we had in the 40s, how would we stand then over a period of four, five or six years? Perhaps the answer is that the war would not last that long, and we would all be blown to pieces in a matter of hours or days or months, and if that is the position, so be it. From time to time, we should think about this and see if there is any answer to it.

I want to mention now the ESB agreement with Northern Ireland. I discussed this with the Minister before. My interpretation of the document presented to us was that one of the objects of this arrangement was cheaper electricity. That would adversely effect the turf-burning stations and the Arigna coal-burning station because they are in a high bracket. The Minister assured me that was not true. However, I am not satisfied because from another source I was told that the object was to use the cheapest electricity possible all along the line. I have seen this statement in the Press recently. I should like to have a further exposition as to how this agreement will affect the places I have mentioned. They are using native fuel and giving local employment, and it would be disastrous if this agreement adversely affected local employment in those areas.

I wonder will the subsidy to CIE ever stop. In my opinion, it will never stop and it will probably continue to increase. That brings me to the question of the railways which will probably continue as a social amenity. Being a social amenity, we should make them a more complete social amenity to the extent that carriage of goods on the railways should probably be made free throughout the country. In other words, if you were taking goods from the west to the south, you would pay nothing for them per se. This would help further to decentralise industry.

I am convinced that one of the reasons there is so much industry on the cast coast has to do with transport and being more convenient to the consumer. This would remove the question of the cost involved in bringing up the goods. Such an approach would help the West and the South perhaps to develop further industrially. It may be argued that this is a purely social effort. Agreed. It would also divert some goods to the railways that should be diverted to them, and it would take some of the big lorries off the roads. I have no doubt that most people would look at this idea with horror and say it could not be done, but it could be done. We are reaching the stage where it should be considered. I do not know the exact figure of the CIE income from rail traffic but compared with the subsidy of £2 million we are paying now, this would help the country generally and it would help CIE.

I wonder how the container traffic element of CIE is developing. This must be one of the ways in which the railways could be helped. Instead of lorrying goods by road from Dublin down the country, they should be taken on at points along the railway. The container traffic could be developed and in this way the railways would be carrying more traffic and the roads carrying less.

Many other aspects of the Minister's report are perhaps far outside my knowledge but I want to refer to Aerlínte. We must admire the attitude of the general manager, Mr. Dargan, in his approach to the question of transatlantic carrying and in his efforts to assist our traffic as against the American companies. It has often been alleged that our business methods are taken completely from Britain and the US. In an important matter such as this, it is good that our representatives can go out there and make their case— an excellent case, to my mind. I want to point out something which I think is obvious. Most people travelling across the Atlantic want transport and not entertainment. I do not know what stage this has reached but I hope he will be successful in making his case.

Another stray thought that struck me about the development of Aer Lingus is this. Some years ago much was written about hovercrafts and about larger ships crossing the Atlantic. Two companies were mentioned, one continental and the other American, which had an interest in this business of the big ship travelling across the Atlantic in a very fast time, providing very meagre fare for the passengers on the ground that a great many people travelling by sea would not eat anyway. I am just wondering now if the idea is dead. Foynes, or the estuary of the Shannon, was one of the places mentioned as a terminus for these ships. I wonder if this idea is still being thrown around the Continent or the United States of America.

Bord na Móna has been referred to as a social service because its losses have been so great over the past few fears. Bord na Móna has done a great deal for certain parts of my constituency. It has created employment which would otherwise never have existed in these areas. It is to be hoped that the idea of developing milled peat and the small sod will be successful. Perhaps the weather will not continue to be as bad as it has been. It is to be hoped this development will in time make its contribution. One's hope would be that Bord na Móna would develop far enough to be able to go into some of the other bogs which they feel at the moment they cannot develop because they are too small and there is not enough turf in them. These bogs, particularly in west Roscommon, if developed even on a small scale, would provide much needed employment.

The Department of Transport and Power covers a wide field and is responsible for a great deal of employment. Deputy Mullen made some remark to the effect that tourism is an even greater earner than is agriculture. Deputy Mullen must know that those of us who come from rural areas appreciate that the real benefit of tourism to the country lies in the fact that it consumes agricultural produce and it is much better to have that produce consumed in the country of its origin than to have it consumed elsewhere. The House should be grateful to the Minister for the comprehensive information with which he supplied us this morning.

I compliment the Minister on providing us with notes to assist Deputies in their consideration of his Estimate. It is a very useful document. I think he will agree that he borrowed that idea from me. I, in 1949, introduced it with my Estimate for the Department of Agriculture. I did not, however, follow it up with a two-hours introductory speech. I admire the Minister's diligence, but I do not think the speech was necessary when the Minister was kind enough to provide us with the volume of information contained in the notes circulated a week ago. There was no need for him to exhaust himself delivering a two-hour speech this morning, a speech which very largely covered the same ground. However, nobody can say hereafter that the Minister is not working for his wages.

There has been some talk about the cost of generating power in this country. Power is, of course, fundamental to industry. It is important, in my opinion, that we should get things clear in our minds. Am I correct in saying that the cost per unit of electricity generated from coal and oil is .696 of one penny and the cost of electricity per unit generated from milled peat is 1.448 of one penny, and the cost of electricity generated in the hydroelectric stations is .398 of one penny? If these figures are correct, and I think they are, I want to ask the Minister the specific question: is Bord na Móna being paid an economic price for the milled peat supplied by it to the ESB? Or, as has been suggested to me by somebody here—I think it was Deputy Tully—is the ESB paying Bord na Móna far less for milled peat than it costs to produce it? My understanding is that the ESB pay Bord no Móna the economic price for the milled peat supplied by Bord na Móna to the ESB and that, as a result, the cost of generating electricity from milled peat is more than twice the cost of generating electricity from oil and coal and five times the cost of generating it from hydro-electric schemes. It would be much better that we should know the facts and realise that the Bord na Móna operation is substantially a social service and that we should be told frankly what the cost of that social service is so that we would recognise the value we are getting for the money invested in that type of social service.

The same problem arises in relation to the Shannon Free Trade Estate. Is that what it is called? Am I right in saying—perhaps the Minister will correct me if I am wrong—that the total investment in the Shannon Free Trade Estate is now running in the order of £20 million?

Between £7 million and £9 million—about £7 million.

I wanted to get that figure correctly because it has been suggested to me that, if you put together all the subheads referred to in the Minister's speech, you arrive at a figure of about £20 million. It often becomes extremely difficult to determine precisely what these figures are and I think it would be of inestimable value to the House if we could know what they truly are.

So far as the ESB is concerned, we have heard from a variety of Deputies, as the occasion warranted, criticisms they had to make. One ought, I think, to report to the House the congratulations one has to offer. During the last 12 months I was immensely struck in a relatively remote part of Connemara when the electricity failed in the middle of the night by the quick response by the ESB to that situation. It did not dawn on me that anybody would be available until the following day and I lit a candle and stuck it in a bottle and prepared to survive without the electric light. I declare to goodness, between 12 midnight and half-past twelve, two young fellows arrived with a ladder and a torch and they refused to leave the premises until they had restored both light and power. That, to me, represented a superb service and an enthusiasm amongst the staff of the ESB in that remote centre. It reflected great credit on the ESB. It was a standard of service I would not have expected to get in the United States of America, Great Britain or anywhere else. I got it in a remote part of Connemara and I thought it reflected great credit on the Board and their officers.

I come now to Bord Fáilte. When you have somebody producing a publication like "Ireland of the Welcomes", they are, I think, entitled to a word of congratulation. I do not think there is a better piece of publicity literature published by any tourist organisation in the world and I have seen a great many of them. The Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Carty, will support me when I say that we see at the Council of Europe in Strasbourg very frequently, comparative displays of so-called tourist literature from the various countries. I do not think we have ever seen anything which excels "Ireland of the Welcomes", the excellence of its production and the general level of the material set out. They are, I think, entitled to congratulations.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
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