Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 6 Feb 1968

Vol. 232 No. 3

Committee on Finance. - Vote 27—Office of the Minister for Education.

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £10 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1968, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Minister for Education (including Institutions of Science and Art), for certain Miscellaneous Educational and Cultural Services and for payment of sundry Grants-in-Aid.

Tugann tabhairt isteach na Meastachán Breise seo seans dom cur síos ar ghnéithe éagsúla d'obair mo Roinne nach raibh caoi agam trácht orthu roimhe seo. Chuige sin déanfaidh mé tagairt do na Votaí ar leith. Dúirt mé an bhliain seo caite gur mheasas go raibh bliain stairiúil romhainn ó thaobh cúrsaí oideachais. Níl aoinne adéarfainn nach n-admhódh gur mar sin a thárla. An scéim saor-oideachais a tugadh i bhfeidhm i gcaitheamh na bliana d'éirigh leis thar bárr ar fad. Dheineamar an-dul chun cinn ar go leor slite eile sa tslí go gceapaim go bhfuil scéal maith agam le h-insint don Dáil.

The total provision in the seven Votes for which I am responsible, is £38,325,400. This represents an increase of £4,547,150 in the provision for the previous financial year. A further sum of £3,000,000 is being provided under Vote 8—Public Works and Buildings —for the building of new schools and the enlargement and improvement of existing schools. The large amount of our resources that we are now devoting to education can be gauged from the fact that in 1957-58 the total expenditure was less than £16,000,000.

I shall now proceed to various Votes and give some facts and figures.

Vote 27 comprises (a) the administration costs of the Department, and (b) the provision for the services which formerly appeared in what was a separate Science and Art Vote.

At £1,408,000 this year's estimate shows an increase of £135,050 in the amount for last year.

The following items account for the main portion of that increase: (i) provision for the additional staff necessitated by the extension of educational services and the normal incremental progression; (ii) the provision of a new subhead relating to Educational Research. A sum of £10,000 is being made available under this subhead for applied socio-economic, psychological and other basic educational research most of which will be undertaken by research workers in academic institutions; (iii) an increase of £10,500 in the provision for language research; (iv) the provision for Scientific Research Grants to students has been increased this year by £12,900.

Arising out of the language research already undertaken experimental courses in Irish for junior standards were in operation in 200 national schools during the school year 1966-67. The experience gained in these pilot courses was applied to the permanent courses for junior standards which have recently been issued to the schools. Courses for the middle and senior standards in national schools are also being prepared: these will similarly be tried on an experimental basis before being issued to all schools.

On the post-primary side, a remedial course in Irish conversation for new entrants to post-primary schools has been prepared and tested experimentally and has been made available to the schools. A full conversation course for the junior standards in post-primary schools is also being prepared and will be tried out in a number of schools during the 1967-68 school year before being recommended generally.

Up to 1964 the scheme of scientific research grants was confined to research in Science and the awards were normally tenable for one year only. In 1965, however, the Scheme was extended and revised so that the engineering sciences were included in the scheme and awards were made for a maximum of three years. Due to the extension of the Scheme on this basis and the increase in student numbers the number of awards has increased considerably— from 23 in 1962-63 to 82 in 1966-67.

The net amount which is being provided for primary education in the present financial year is £19,844,000, which is an increase of almost one million pounds over the sum voted last year.

It is customary, when dealing with this Estimate, to give some outline statistics relating to primary education for the previous school year. I propose to continue this practice as I feel that it helps to illustrate the overall picture. For the school year ended 30th June, 1966, there were 505,225 pupils on rolls in national schools, which shows a marginal decrease— 1,327 pupils—on the figure for the previous year. This decrease would be accounted for by the larger numbers moving into post-primary education at an earlier age. The number of teachers employed in the schools was 14,614, an increase of 145 as against the previous year. The actual number of schools decreased by 50 to 4,797. This is an indication of the effect of the implementation of the policy of discontinuing where possible small schools and bringing the children concerned to larger school units where better educational facilities can be provided.

It is of interest to note that, if we divide the number of pupils on rolls by the number of teachers employed we get a figure of slightly under 35 pupils per teacher. But, of course, this does not give a true picture of conditions as they are in the schools. In the smaller schools there may be as few as 14 pupils per teacher, while classes of over 40 children are still, alas, too common in large city schools. As Deputies will know, however, a policy of steadily reducing the pupil-teacher ratio has been operated over recent years, and I am happy to say that we are making a further reduction this year in the number required for the appointment of additional teachers in schools having enrolments of between 80 and 320 pupils. This means that a third teacher may now be appointed when an average enrolment of 80 pupils has been established (as against a requirement of 90 pupils formerly). The intention is to continue improving the pupil/teacher ratio until the position will be reached when no teacher will have more than 35 pupils in his class. To achieve this two things, in the main, will be necessary: more effective use of the teaching personnel and an increase in the number of trained teachers coming into the service.

As to the first of these, I am heartened by the evidence that there is a developing appreciation of the educational advantages of the policy of securing larger schools. The amalgamation of smaller schools is now proceeding in a reasonably smooth way. A teacher who, through serving in a one-teacher school, has to teach all classes from infants to sixth is far less effective than a teacher who, though in charge of a larger number of pupils, has only two at most different classes to deal with. Therefore, larger schools, while ensuring a more rational use of the teaching personnel, also ensure better education. In the matter of training additional teachers the position is that over the past seven years the output of the Training Colleges has been steadily increased. The recent extension of St. Patrick's Training College for men teachers will add very considerably to the number of trained teachers being turned out annually. The total number of persons who successfully completed training as national teachers in June, 1967, was 585.

One thing which continues to be a source of worry and dissatisfaction is the number of national school buildings which are in need of replacement. Last year I was pleased to inform the House that a record had been achieved in primary school building in the year 1965-66. In 1966-67 we concentrated to a large extent in endeavouring to have running water and proper sanitation in schools where these facilities were not heretofore available. Notwithstanding this, over 19,500 pupil places were provided through new schools and extensions during that year. I will not rest content, however, until all our school children are housed in decent buildings with reasonable standards of hygiene, heating and general comfort. One step I have recently taken is to give authority to school managers to have the heating and sanitary systems in schools brought up to suitable standard, where this is necessary; and I have given an undertaking that, where a manager has such work done satisfactorily, a grant will be paid towards its cost. I have heard it said that some managers have interpreted this decision as imposing further responsibility on them. That certainly was not the intention. The decision was taken in full agreement with the Catholic Clerical Managers Association and the aim was to reduce official procedure to a minimum and thereby cut out delay in having urgently required improvements attended to. I understand that, in fact, quite a number of school managers have readily availed themselves of the freedom of action which is now offered to them in effecting necessary improvements.

In relation to the overall position in the matter of school building, improvement and expansion, I think that in view of recent events it is necessary to put matters in their proper perspective. The pupil population in our national schools continues to be about 500,000. If we take the life of a national school to be 80 years—a conservative enough figure in the case of a school which is reasonably maintained — then we require to provide about 6,000 school places per annum in order to meet ordinary replacements. Anything we provide over and above that number is eating into the back-log of old and unsuitable schools. Now let us see how we have been faring in that respect. Over the past four years we have by way of new schools and major schemes of improvement and extension provided 87,000 school places. Thus we have been clearing the arrears at the rate of over 15,000 places each year. This by any standard is a very big programme. A major factor contributing to it is the large number of school managers who are fully alive to their responsibilities. I notice incidentally that great play was made by some people on the fact that in authorising managers to proceed on their own towards the provision of satisfactory heating and sanitary systems in schools we told them not to proceed without prior consultation with the Department in any case where due to amalgamation or replacement the life expectancy of the school was less than five years. This meant in effect that major works should not be carried out in the case of such a school. As school managers know, however, my Department has never refused a grant for urgent works needed to keep a school going for a few years until the arrangements for replacing it were completed.

There is another aspect of primary education to which I feel I should make reference here. It is the education of mentally handicapped children. Since the commencement of the financial year 1966-67, new primary schools for mentally handicapped pupils have been established at Kilkenny, An Uaimh, Drumcar, Waterford city, Ennis, Enniscorthy and Castlebar, and the near future will see two more such schools opened, at Cashel and Cootehill. At the same time, facilities in Dublin for the education of mentally handicapped children are being extended.

In almost all these instances the arrangements at local level for the establishment of the schools and for the organisation of transport of the children to and from school, as well as for the provision of school meals, have been undertaken by voluntary committees. The men and women who form these committees have displayed an energy and efficiency to match the charity and high idealism which inspires them and I want to avail myself of this opportunity to thank them most sincerely.

The problem of the retarded or slow-learning child in the primary schools is another matter that demands attention. I expect to have before me shortly the report of a Special Committee established in October, 1965, to advise on this problem and I have no doubt that their recommendations will assist me in my endeavours to improve the educational facilities for such children.

Among the first things about which I expressed myself as being unhappy when I assumed responsibility for the Department of Education was the primary school certificate examination. It is something to which I gave considerable thought, and on which I sounded the views of many people. When I announced recently, therefore, that this annual examination would be discontinued and that a system of record cards would be introduced, showing the progress through the primary school of each individual child, I was satisfied that I was doing the right thing. Such public comment as has since been made on that decision, and the many private opinions that have been offered to me, encourage me in the hope that the new system will be no mean contribution towards the general advance in education.

The net total amount proposed for secondary education is £8,295,000. This is an increase of about £1,545,000 on the amount provided last year in the original and Supplementary Estimates. The principal headings under which the increase occurs are supplemental grants to schools in lieu of tuition fees, transport services, grants towards the cost of free school books, science and equipment grants, teachers' salaries, building grants to secondary schools, capitation grants and courses for secondary teachers.

When introducing last year's Estimate, I gave details of my plans for the provision of free education at post-primary level. The implementation of these plans in so far as secondary schools are concerned is reflected in the three new provisions in the Estimates for the current financial year totalling £739,000 for supplemental grants in lieu of tuition fees, transport services and grants towards the cost of free school books.

One-third, approximately, of the supplemental grants to be paid in respect of the school-year 1967-68 will fall for payment in the current financial year. As members of the House are no doubt already aware, the success of the scheme has been very great indeed. Participation by schools in the scheme has so far exceeded expectations that 92 per cent of day pupils will now benefit as compared with the 75 per cent on which the estimate was based. The higher participation of pupils and the great increase in enrolments means that the numbers qualifying for grants towards the cost of free school books will also be higher than provided for. Accordingly, the amount required for payment of the supplemental grants and the grants towards the cost of free school books in the current year may be expected to exceed the provision in the Estimate by more than £150,000. I will refer again to this matter in connection with the Supplementary Estimate which is being introduced to meet the increased expenditure.

The number of pupils on the rolls of secondary schools increased by approximately 5,000 to 103,558 in 1966-67 as compared with 1965-66. There are more than 118,000 pupils on the rolls of secondary schools in the present school year—an increase of about 15,000 compared with 1966-67 or approximately three times greater than the previous annual increase.

In order to afford further assistance to the authorities of secondary schools towards providing the additional accommodation required by the growth in pupil numbers, I have made some special arrangements. First, the State contribution towards the cost has been increased from 60 per cent to 70 per cent and secondly the annual amount of capital being made available is being very substantially increased. This capital is being channelled through my Department. The money will be made available to schools by way of a direct grant of 70 per cent, and the remaining 30 per cent by way of loan repayable over 15 years. I have, also, made arrangements for making available to school authorities, where necessary to meet urgent requirements, pre-fabricated classrooms, on which the 70 per cent grant is payable. These measures together with the increased accommodation being provided in the vocational schools are ensuring that the school accommodation is adequate for the demand.

Further assistance to schools, for which provision is included in the estimates, takes the form of grants towards the cost of furnishing and equipping special subject rooms. Hitherto, such grants have been provided in two ways, namely, grants on a capitation basis in respect of classes following approved courses in experimental science, domestic science and manual instruction (woodwork) and, more recently, grants in respect of the furnishing and equipping of science laboratories.

In view of the great expansion in the teaching of science, the increased costs of furnishing and equipping science laboratories, the revision and enlargement of the science syllabuses and the fact that the existing grant arrangements for the subject were not regarded as adequate to meet demands, I decided to introduce as from the school-year 1967-68 an amended scheme of grants for science in lieu of all existing arrangements. Under the amended scheme, payments, subject to maximum figures, may be made on the basis of 75 per cent of vouched approved expenditure for the equipping and/or the furnishing of science laboratories and for the renewal or replacement of science equipment or material.

Similar schemes on the basis of 70 per cent of vouched approved expenditure are being introduced as from 1967-68 for domestic science, woodwork, metalwork, arts and crafts, geography and physical education. The total estimate for these grants for the current financial year is £280,000 as against an estimate of £150,000 last year.

The number of registered teachers in receipt of incremental salary in 1966-67 was 4,461 as against 4,253 in 1965-66. In addition, 434 teachers were in receipt of the special supplementary allowance for probationer teachers in 1966-67.

I am fully conscious of the need to ensure the continuance of adequate growth in the number of qualified teaching personnel. I am very pleased, therefore, to be able to say that as from 1st August last the supplementary allowance of £200 per annum payable to probationer teachers which has not changed since its introduction during the school-year 1961-62 has been raised to £360 per annum. In addition, the £52 per annum in the case of married men and the £39 per annum in the case of women and unmarried men awarded to teachers in receipt of incremental salary with effect from 1st June, 1966, is also payable to probationer teachers.

In recent years, increasing provision has been made in the Estimates for refresher and training courses for teachers. In the current year's Estimates, this provision has been extended still further. Apart from the increase in the number of courses, there is, for the first time, a provision for the payment of maintenance and travelling allowances in respect of the attendance of recognised secondary teachers at summer courses. These allowances are in line with those already payable in the case of vocational teachers.

The scheme of grants towards the provision of modern language teaching aids introduced with effect from 1st August, 1964, hitherto has been confined to modern continental languages. Suitable courses in Irish involving such aids are now in operation and, therefore, the scheme has been extended to enable grants to be made in respect of these courses. The provision in the subhead has been increased for this purpose.

When introducing last year's Estimates, I expressed my gratitude to the secondary and vocational school associations for their co-operation generally and in particular for their wholehearted co-operation in the framing of new syllabuses in all subjects of the intermediate certificate course. It is my pleasure again to express my deep appreciation of their continued co-operation and also on this occasion to voice my gratitude to the authorities of the National University of Ireland, who with the school associations have so generously given of their assistance and co-operation during the past year with the detailed investigation that has been carried out in relation to the structure of the leaving certificate courses and examination. A committee comprising representatives of the National University, the various school and teacher associations and my Department have furnished recommendations on this matter and I hope that after the university and the associations will have had an opportunity of giving detailed consideration to these recommendations and of the furnishing of their views on them, to be in a position to have the work of framing new syllabuses in all subjects at post-intermediate certificate level put in train.

At Estimate time last year, I announced my intention of bringing into operation as from 1st April, 1967, a scheme of free transport to post-primary schools. The object of the scheme is to make post-primary education available to children who hitherto were denied it because they lived too far away from the nearest post-primary school. The basic requirement in providing free transport is that the child lives three miles or more from a post-primary school.

Because of the amount of expertise in transport matters required to launch a scheme of this magnitude, I assigned the administration of the scheme to CIE. Wherever possible CIE will use their own vehicles, but they will also enter into contracts with private transport operators. The scheme is being implemented in two ways:—

(i) Where eligible children already use or are within reach of public scheduled services, my Department are paying the cost of transport to the nearest post-primary centre;

(ii) In districts where no public transport services are available special school services are being organised.

A pupil will normally be entitled to free transport only to the nearest suitable post-primary centre to his home, but I have made certain transitional arrangements for existing pupils eligible for free transport who are not attending the nearest suitable centre.

I originally anticipated that it would take two or three years to implement the scheme in full and that it would be possible to provide only a limited number of services in the first year.

Thanks, however, to the hard work and enthusiasm of all those entrusted with the organisation of the scheme, progress on providing free transport has surpassed all expectations. Of the 55,000 children who are eligible, service has now been provided for 52,500, using every available bus in CIE's fleet and every suitable bus in private ownership—724 vehicles in all.

To provide for the remaining pupils and to improve the standards of service, the Government are making capital of the order of £1m. available to CIE for a further 230 specially designed school buses which will be built in their works at Inchicore and by three private firms in Dundalk. Pending delivery of these vehicles, CIE are hiring a sufficient number of buses from Ulsterbus Ltd., to enable them to give service to all eligible pupils before the end of this month. The scheme will be fully implemented, therefore, in less than a year from the date of its initiation.

The progress made means that the original estimate of £300,000 is now inadequate. The cost in the current financial year will amount to £840,000 and a supplementary to cover the additional cost is being introduced. On the basis of the present number of eligible children the cost of the scheme in a full year is estimated at £1,370,000.

The net sum being provided for the vocational education service is £4,735,000. This is an increase of £1,211,040. The main reason for seeking this increase is to enable the vocational education committee to meet the additional cost arising out of the provision of free whole-time day courses of vocational education for all pupils who were eligible for enrolment in post-primary schools and who elected to enrol in vocational schools. The scheme for the provision of free education in vocational schools has been inaugurated since the commencement of the present school year. It has necessitated the provision of very considerable extra classroom accommodation and teaching equipment and the recruitment of a large number of additional teachers. I am happy to inform the House that the inauguration of the scheme and its continued operation have been entirely successful and I should like to take this opportunity of making a sincere expression of gratitude to the vocational education committees and all their staffs for the great enthusiasm and efficiency with which they made all the arrangements which enabled the scheme to be launched so successfully.

I am also happy to be able to say that the bulk purchase of a large number of prefabricated classroom units arranged by my Department enabled the very urgently required additional classroom accommodation to be provided early in the present session at a very economic cost.

I referred in the House last year to my intention to have the machinery for the appointment of vocational teachers overhauled with a view to its improvement. In the meantime, a new procedure for the appointment of permanent whole-time vocational teachers has been introduced and has already been adopted on a trial basis. I am glad to say that it has been working very satisfactorily and has up to the present dealt with the appointment of the great majority of the new teachers recruited from the commencement of the present session as well as the large number of appointments which resulted from the transfer of existing teachers from one committee's area to another's.

The total number of candidates who presented themselves in 1967 for my Department's day group certificate examinations was 19,444 as compared with 16,767 in 1966. The increased number of candidates is a gratifying reflection of the growing appreciation of the valuable benefits of vocational education. On the topic of examinations, I may mention that the new course leading to the common intermediate certificate was introduced in vocational schools last year and that pupils of these schools will shortly be presenting themselves for that examination too as well as for the group certificate.

Another feature of this Estimate to which I should like to refer is the increased provision for teacher-training courses conducted by the Department. As a result of this provision an increased number of trainee-teachers will on the successful completion of their training courses, become available for employment in the vocational education service whose needs in the matter of additional teachers will be increasing because of the growth in the enrolment of pupils.

I would now like to bring the House up to date in relation to the position in regard to the regional technical colleges. At first it was decided to provide eight colleges which would be sited in Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford, Carlow, Dundalk, Athlone and Sligo. As recently announced it has now been decided to provide a ninth college which will be erected in Letterkenny. The intention is that these nine colleges with the existing colleges in Dublin will provide a complex of such colleges covering the entire country.

The Government have agreed to make £7,000,000 available to meet the cost of building these colleges and has also decided that this sum will be met direct from State funds, i.e., the local rates will not have to bear any part of the building costs.

Each of the nine colleges will be run by a regional board on which local interests, including local industrial interests and the Vocational Education Committees, and the Minister for Education will have representation. The intention is, of course, to emphasise the regional character of the colleges. By the establishment of these colleges the Government wishes to emphasise its commitment to a policy of promoting technical education and technician training in all its aspects.

The main long-term function of the colleges will be to educate for trade and industry over a broad spectrum of occupations ranging from craft to professional level, notably in engineering and science but also in commercial, linguistic, catering, art and design and other specialities. They will be more immediately concerned with providing courses aimed at filling gaps in the industrial manpower structure particularly in the technician area. They will also provide senior cycle post-primary courses leading to the leaving certificate with a bias towards scientific, technical and commercial studies. It is also the intention that the colleges will play a major role in a policy of adult training and retraining which will be a vital need in the years to come.

A final fixed pattern of courses in these colleges is not envisaged. If they are to make their most effective contribution to the needs of society and the economy they must be capable of continuing adaptation to social, economic and technological changes. Initiative at regional and national levels will largely determine how far this vital characteristic is developed.

There are some other general considerations in regard to the establishment of the colleges which I feel I might mention now. The availability and demand for technical education are essential to our future industrial progress. It is not a matter, however, of merely meeting the existing demand for such education but of creating and stimulating a swing towards technical education and technician training. This requires local effort harnessed into a regional effort. The college must be an integral part of the region, serving in every way possible the educational and industrial needs of the area in which it is situated. But more than that is at stake. The supply of facilities will create its own demand for technical training. In turn the supply of skilled manpower will help to accelerate the industrial and economic growth of the region and this in essence is the why of regional technical colleges.

In formulating proposals for the Government with regard to the colleges I have had the benefit of a very thorough report prepared by an independent steering committee working in conjunction with officers of my Department. I propose to make the report of the committee available generally in due course but suffice it to say at this stage that what has been decided with regard to the colleges follows closely the recommendations of the committee. I should like here to place on record my appreciation of the very great contribution which the committee have made in this important field of technical education.

A final word about the colleges themselves. Studies based on a building brief prepared by the steering committee are already far advanced on the design of teaching areas, communal and administrative facilities and other ancillary accommodation. These studies are being carried out in consultation with my Department by a consortium of architects, quantity surveyors and engineers with the assistance of other specialised staff.

Building work on six of the colleges is scheduled to commence next spring and it is hoped to have them in operation by September, 1969. Work on the remaining three colleges—Cork, Limerick and Galway—will commence somewhat later.

The amount sought under Vote 31 for the financial year 1967-68 is £219,500—a decrease of £43,000 on that for the year 1966-67. This decrease is due to the decline in the numbers of children detained in the schools. At the end of 1966 there were 118 boys and 27 girls in the reformatories as compared with 100 boys and 20 girls at the end of 1965. In the industrial schools the numbers were 1,120 boys and 1,089 girls at the end of 1966 as compared with 1,256 boys and 1,264 girls at the end of 1965.

Thirteen of the industrial schools have their own primary schools and in the case of the 25 remaining schools the children attend local national schools.

As Deputies are no doubt aware, a committee has recently been established to survey the reformatory and industrial schools system and to make a report and recommendations to me. I am hoping to have the result of their labours in twelve to eighteen months time.

The provision in 1967-68 for Universities and Colleges, the Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies and Grants-in-Aid to the College of Surgeons, the Dublin Dental Hospital, the Cork Hospitals' Board and the College of Pharmacy shows a net increase of £609,800 over the provision in 1966-67.

The total increase over 1966-67 in the case of the recurrent grant to the three colleges of the National University and Trinity College is £300,000. This increase is related to the necessary expansion in staff to cater for the greater number of students attending the colleges. The total number of full-time students in 1966-67 was approximately 15,600, an increase of 1,436 over the previous year.

On the capital side £300,000 is being provided for University College, Dublin in connection with the erection of a new arts and administration building. It is anticipated that the building which will provide accommodation for 5,000 to 6,000 arts students and which is estimated to cost £2,300,000 will be completed in time for the opening of the college session commencing in October, 1969. Plans are being drawn up for library and restaurant buildings to be available for students at the same time as the arts building is opened. The cost of these two projects is estimated at £950,000.

Work has commenced on a new building for physics, chemistry, mathematical science and a science library in University College, Cork. The total estimated cost of the project is £1,600,000 and it is expected to be completed by September, 1969. Sanction has recently been given for the provision of a new science block at University College, Galway at a cost of £1,750,000.

In the case of Trinity College the estimate includes a capital sum of £47,000, this being the final instalment of the State's share of the cost of the library project. In all the State contributed £368,000 to the project of which £271,000 was paid in 1966-67.

The grant to the College of Surgeons is being increased by £12,000; that to the College of Pharmacy by £7,000 and that to the Institute for Advanced Studies by £11,460.

The amount being provided in Vote 33, £31,300 shows an increase of £5,310 in the sum for 1966-67. While on the subject of the Gallery, I would like to pay tribute again to the manner in which the public are now being made aware of it and of the treasures which it contains.

During the year, the Development Branch of my Department prepared and published reports on post-primary educational facilities in each county. Apart from providing a large amount of basic data which was not previously readily available, the reports gave an estimate of the additional facilities which would be required in each centre to cater for the introduction of the free post-primary education scheme and the raising of the school leaving age by 1970. The reports also made suggestions in regard to the rationalisation of post-primary facilities in each area. They highlighted the need for co-operation between the two post-primary school systems in order to provide comprehensive facilities in each area and made practical suggestions as to how such co-operation might be introduced and developed.

These county reports were issued to all the interests concerned and were also made available to the press. Meetings to discuss the reports were held in each county and provided the educational authorities, parents, teachers and others with an opportunity of making their views known before final plans were made. This whole process of debate and discussion proved most useful to me and my Department and was, I hope, also greatly appreciated by school authorities, teachers' organisations and the general public. I was particularly heartened by the great public interest taken in these discussions. The presence of representatives from the secondary schools and the vocational schools helped in promoting active co-operation between them. We still have, however, a long way to go in getting complete co-operation between our two post-primary systems but a start has been made.

If these local meetings did nothing else, I am sure that they brought home forcefully the need for larger post-primary school units capable of providing facilities and courses which will cater for the interests and aptitudes of all the pupils. The greater awareness in the public generally of the value of education and the need for adequate facilities also helps this process as parents are no longer prepared to send their children to centres which cannot provide adequate facilities.

In the Greater Dublin Area the Advisory Council established in 1966 has carried out an intensive survey into the whole position. It is estimated that by 1975 some 30,000 additional post-primary places will be needed in that area. Already 13 new schools and 28 major extensions to existing post-primary schools have been sanctioned by me. These will provide accommodation for 16,000 pupils and consideration is at present being given to the provision of the remaining places which will be required. In passing, I should like to thank most sincerely those representatives on the council who have given so freely and generously of their time in the examination of the problem of school accommodation in Dublin.

As the House is aware, comprehensive schools have already been established in Cootehill, Carraroe and Shannon. A fourth comprehensive school is at present being erected in Glenties, County Donegal. It is also proposed to erect a comprehensive school for Protestant pupils at Raphoe. Accommodation will be provided for 350-400 pupils and the cost will be of the order of £225,000. It is proposed to erect two comprehensive schools in Dublin, both in Ballymun, one for boys and and one for girls. Each of these schools will accommodate about 750 pupils and the cost of both schools is estimated at £750,000. Ballymun should provide an ideal centre for testing a variety of comprehensive courses.

Educational research has not heretofore received here the encouragement which it warrants though it is an indispensable element in efforts aimed at improvement or development. I have, therefore, been considering ways and means of encouraging research in the field of education in Ireland. Apart from the Investment in Education survey and the practical results which flowed from it, we have also recently had a fairly extensive programme of language research carried out at Gormanston. Another important development has been the setting up of an Educational Research Centre in Saint Patrick's Teacher Training College which is involved in research work of a fundamental nature on the various aspects of education and the learning process. The Development Branch in my own Department is of its nature orientated towards research activity and will take the lead in developing new techniques in various fields. The provision of £10,000 for Educational Research in my Department's Vote is being utilised to support suitable research projects which are being carried out by University Departments and other bodies. This is an important development and will provide financial support for students who are engaged in post-graduate research in education.

The Schools' Psychological Service in the Department which was started with an initial complement of three psychologists is being expanded and it is hoped to recruit a further five psychologists very shortly. The intention is to add to that number each year as suitably qualified people become available. Achievement tests suitable to Irish conditions have been developed and are being tested in the comprehensive schools. With the aid of additional psychologists and specially trained career masters in the schools, it is hoped to extend the educational guidance service to an increasing number of schools until eventually such a service will be available generally.

The provision of audio-visual aids in our schools, primary and post-primary, is most essential. For too long, we have ignored the help which audio-visual aids can provide in improving the quality of teaching and enriching the learning process. During the year, the nucleus of an audio-visual aid section was established in my Department and at present I have under consideration a scheme of grants to schools which would enable them to make good their deficiencies in this respect. I shall make a further announcement in the matter in due course.

There are two aspects of the free education scheme as it affects boarding schools to which I would like to refer. There are in the Diocesan Colleges and Juniorates pupils who because of the vocation they have set before themselves must attend as boarders. In recognition of that fact, I decided, as announced a short time ago, that the tuition element of the fee of the pupils in these colleges should be paid under the scheme of free education with effect as from the current school year. I have also given serious thought to the many representations made to me on behalf of the other lower fee boarding schools which felt that the tuition element of their fee should be covered in the free education scheme. I am happy to repeat that the Government have agreed that, with effect from 1969-70, the supplemental grant of £25 in lieu of tuition fees may be paid in respect of pupils in boarding schools charging £120 per annum or less. Because of the special problem of Protestant boarding schools, the Government has agreed that with effect from the current school year a lump sum payment will be made to the Commission for Protestant Secondary Schools to enable them to come to the assistance particularly of pupils who have not suitable post-primary school facilities available to them in the locality in which they reside. The lump sum will be based on the maximum amount of the tuition grant.

The first comment I want to make is that I believe the most urgent problem facing the Minister and his Department at the present time is the speeding-up of the repair of the very large number of national schools throughout the country which are in a deplorably bad state. There is little need for me to comment on the situation as it has come into focus in a very dramatic way in recent weeks. I am glad the Minister dealt with this problem. He has been conspicuous by his silence since the controversy recently arose regarding the condition of primary schools and particularly since the Irish National Teachers' Organisation were compelled to take drastic action to focus attention on the situation.

Despite all the talk about amalgamation of universities and about new developments in secondary and technical education, the plain fact still remains that primary education is the most important part of our entire educational system. It is a sad reflection on us after 40 years of native Government that hundreds of primary school pupils are compelled to pursue their studies in buildings that are anti-quated, outdated, insanitary, and one can hardly exaggerate the appalling conditions under which pupils and teachers have to work.

In page 6 of his speech the Minister stated that one thing which continues to be a source of worry and dissatisfaction to him is the number of national school buildings which are in need of replacement. It is good to note that the Minister is worried about this particular problem and I sincerely hope that the plans which he has outlined here to clear the backlog of repairs and replacements will succeed.

The Minister said that he will not rest content until all schoolchildren are housed in clean buildings with reasonable standards of hygiene and comfort. I think every Deputy in the House, no matter to what Party he belongs, will agree with these sentiments and we will look forward with particular interest over the next year to see to what extent this programme of replacement and repair of national school buildings will be accelerated.

I do not want to go into the details or arguments that have been put forward in recent weeks. Indeed, the position has received perhaps more publicity in the press, and so on, than may have been justified. But, the plain fact remains that we cannot rest satisfied with progress in the national field until we reach a stage where at least our primary schoolchildren can pursue their studies in buildings—as the Minister has said when he expresses his hopes—with reasonable standards of hygiene, heating and comfort.

On primary education, there is one development since we had the opportunity of discussing education a year ago with which I wholeheartedly agree. The Minister on page 9 adverted to the question of the primary school certificate examination. He states that here is one of the first things about which he expressed himself as being unhappy when he assumed his responsibility for the Department of Education—the primary school certificate examination. I am glad the Minister has reviewed this particular problem and that he has decided on a new approach. It was generally agreed by all and sundry that the primary school certificate examination had outlived its usefulness, if, in fact, it ever had any usefulness. It was generally recognised and agreed that the primary school certificate in this modern age was due for either total abolition or for some change. The Minister has decided to do away with the primary school certificate and substitute a system of record cards which would show the progress in the primary school of each individual child.

This method of assessment of progress is in line with developments in other countries. This method of assessment of progress by record cards, whereby the progress of the pupil can be recorded over a period of time, is, I think, a much better method of assessment than the actual examination at the end of the primary school stage.

Those of us who have had experience of teaching know full well that the primary school certificate was not really a test of the pupil's progress through the primary school. Therefore, I welcome the change and I sincerely hope that the new method will work out satisfactorily. I have not had the opportunity of actually seeing the new system functioning. I do not even know whether the system of record cards has, in fact, been introduced in the schools but I certainly look forward with interest to the working of this system in the primary schools.

Another important point referred to by the Minister in his brief in relation to primary education is the very important question of teacher/pupil ratio. This is second, I suppose, to the problem of bad school buildings and inadequate accommodation. The problem of overcrowding of classes has perhaps been one of the most serious problems in the field of primary education. The Minister states that the present figure is slightly under 35 pupils per teacher. Of course, this figure of 35 pupils per teacher as an average is, in fact, the total number of pupils divided by the total number of teachers and does not naturally—and I think the Minister referred to that—give the true figure because it is a well-known fact that there is gross overcrowding in many places.

You have on the other end of the scale the smaller one-teacher schools in the depopulated areas. It is quite common, as far as I am aware, to find in city schools teachers having to deal with classes of 40 pupils or more. I have had experience of that particular job and I think that every effort should be made, and no expense should be spared, to try to achieve the optimum pupil/teacher ratio in our national schools.

The Minister has said that a policy of steadily reducing the pupil/teacher ratio has been operated over recent years and he said that a further reduction can be expected this year. This question of pupil/teacher ratio is tied up with two important factors. The first is the provision of adequate accommodation and the second is the training of primary school teachers.

What has been said already in relation to the condition of many of our school buildings is closely tied up with this question of pupil/teacher ratio. I understand that arrangements have been made and steps taken to increase the output of national school teachers. I believe, from the limited experience which I have had of teaching in primary schools, that the optimum maximum figure should be one teacher to 30 pupils. I believe this is the desirable figure. It certainly is the maximum figure which is compatible with efficient teaching.

The Minister also mentioned the important question of the education of the mentally handicapped. This is a subject dear to the heart of Deputies and of everybody in the country. It is a welcome sign of the times that people are beginning to take a greater interest in the education of the mentally handicapped. The amount of voluntary effort put into this problem by people in many walks of life is, as the Minister rightly commented, worthy of the greatest praise. The Minister stated in his speech:

Since the commencement of the financial year 1966-67 new primary schools for mentally handicapped pupils have been established at Kilkenny, An Uaimh, Drumcar, Waterford city, Ennis, Enniscorthy and Castlebar.

He also pointed out that the facilities in Dublin are being extended.

The Minister can be confident of having the full support of all sides of the House in any steps he may take to deal with this problem. As I said, people are now becoming interested in the welfare of the handicapped and are prepared not merely to show pity —which is ineffective anyway—but to contribute both in cash and kind towards helping this unfortunate section of our community.

The question of mentally handicapped children covers a wide field. There are several degrees of handicap. The Minister referred to one particular kind—the problem of mentally retarded pupils in our primary schools. Special consideration is being given to the introduction of plans to deal with these children. There is no doubt at all that the backward or retarded child in large overcrowded classes in the primary schools presents a very serious problem and a difficult one for the teacher to deal with. It is high time we got down to tackling it.

There are a number of ways in which the problem can be approached. In some centres special schools have been provided to cater for these children. Such schools could be provided in each locality drawing their pupils from a certain radius. Experiments of that nature are working in certain parts of the country. In Limerick St. Gabriel's is doing excellent work for the mentally handicapped children. This is a day school drawing pupils from a radius of about 20 miles. This is the sort of effort that would go a long way towards solving the problem.

I come now to secondary education. The past year has seen the introduction of what has come to be known as free post-primary education. The figures in the Minister's speech are impressive. He states that 92 per cent of the pupils are now covered by the scheme. When we were discussing the Estimate last year and when the Minister announced the details of the scheme I remember expressing doubt about its coming into operation as quickly as was forecast. As we in Fine Gael have advocated free post-primary education, we can now legitimately welcome the fact that such a high proportion of our secondary school pupils are being catered for and also the fact that their parents appreciate the value of education and are prepared to make the sacrifice to send them to secondary school.

I want to emphasise the fact that, even though this has now come to be known as free post-primary education, that much play might be made of the fact that pupils do not have to pay fees and that certain categories qualify for free books it must be remembered it entails a great sacrifice for many families to send their children to secondary schools. This is especially so in the case of the larger and poorer families where the loss of the earnings of the older members of the family during the time they are at secondary school can be a great problem. It is a good thing that, on the whole, the parents are education-minded and that the necessary sacrifice is being made.

On this question of free books, it appears certain problems have arisen in the implementation of the scheme. I have come across complaints from parents who felt their children were entitled to free books but did not get them. When the Minister announced this scheme he stated in a broad way the categories of children deemed to be qualified, but the decision in this regard was left to the headmasters and headmistresses of the schools. I have been told that certain schools did not receive any grant as yet in respect of free books supplied to pupils and that a certain amount of confusion has arisen. I would like the Minister to clarify the situation in the light of the experience gained in his Department.

Everybody will agree that it is in the field of vocational education that we need to concentrate, perhaps, the greatest effort in the immediate future. There is no doubt whatsoever that the vocational schools can play a very important role in the development of this country. I note in the Minister's speech that he has referred in more detail than normal in this annual Estimate to the question of vocational education. He has referred in particular to the regional colleges of technology.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
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