asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he will arrange that Córas Iompair Éireann will withhold any increase in fares pending a full inquiry into the matter.
22.
Ceisteann—Questions. Oral Answers. - CIE Fares Increase.
21.
asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he is satisfied that the increase in CIE fares is justified; and if he will make a statement in the matter.
23.
asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he has sanctioned or intends to sanction in the near future increases in Dublin city bus fares; and, if so, why.
24.
asked the Minister for Transport and Power the reasons why he has sanctioned the recently announced increase in CIE fares.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 21, 22, 23 and 24 together.
I should explain, in the first instance, that under section 8 of the Transport Act, 1958, CIE are free to fix such charges as the Board thinks fit for any service provided by the Board.
CIE notified me of the need to increase fares and rates to help the Board to meet increased labour and other costs. Details of the increases and the reasons therefor have been given in a comprehensive statement issued by the General Manager of CIE on Thursday, 21st November, 1968. At the Government's request, there will be no increase in school children's fares.
I am fully satisfied in view of CIE's present financial position that the Board has no alternative but to increase fares and rates and I have informed the Board that there is no objection to the proposed increases.
It is necessary that it should be clearly understood that, since the last increase in CIE fares and rates in January, 1968, labour costs in CIE have risen by over £3 million per annum. Other costs, including material costs, fuel costs and financial charges have risen by £1.255 million in a full year, making a total increase of £4.3 million per annum. The impact of rising costs have been offset by CIE to a substantial extent by increased business and greater productivity. The balance must, however, be recovered as far as possible by the proposed increases in fares and rates.
Under section 6 of the Transport Act, 1958, CIE's annual subvention of £2 million cannot be varied before 1st April, 1969, after which the amount of the subvention will have to be reviewed.
Did the Minister take into consideration the fact that this will impose a tremendous hardship on working-class families who must use buses?
The Deputy will note that, just as the earnings of the staff of CIE have increased through negotiations between staff and management, so have the earnings of the rest of the community and that should enable the rest of the community to bear more easily these increased charges. The increased charges in CIE arise, as the Deputy knows, because of the fact that in some industries and services the total labour costs are higher than they are in others. In the case of CIE the labour cost is 61 per cent of the total cost. The Government have been giving a subsidy of £2 million a year as a general contribution from the taxpayer to maintain the transport services. That subvention will come in for fresh examination in connection with a Bill to be brought before the House and, I hope that, whatever the level of the subsidy will be, it will not constitute a greater burden on the total Budget than it did in 1964. It is a question of balance. As the Deputy knows, money is required for educational purposes, social welfare and so on. CIE is now being subsidised by the Department of Education in order to provide free transport for schoolchildren. There is also a contribution towards the carriage of old age pensioners and others free. It is a question of balance. It is a matter of striking the right balance. If one examines the railway accounts of European railways one will find that the losses sustained by CIE, making allowance for the special conditions here, appear to be moderate compared with those in other countries, countries in which circumstances are more satisfactory from the point of view of the operation of railway services.
Is the Minister aware that the services offered by CIE are grossly inadequate and are, in fact, in a state of chaos? By raising the rates at this point of time CIE is merely forcing people to acquire other means of transport, thereby worsening the position still further.
The Deputy, like a few other Deputies, is always prejudiced against the CIE bus service. I propose to deal with that on a later Question. I want to make it clear that we have a great deal of knowledge of the operation of railways and bus services because of our link with the European Conference of Ministers of Transport. It is possible to examine every phase of CIE operations, productivity, the utilisation of coaches and wagons, the use of diesel engines, the sales organisation, the efficiency with which buses and rail stock are maintained, the efficiency of the assembly service. It is possible to make comparisons and these comparisons have been made. I have no doubt that CIE is relatively efficiently organised in that way.
CIE have managed to achieve a great deal of productivity in the past five years, both in the operation of bus and rail services. It makes use of modern techniques and unitisation of traffic. It makes other efforts it would take too long for me to enumerate. We are not simply carrying on in a void. We have a great deal of information. We also have regular discussions with the chairman and general manager of CIE, and with the board, to make sure that they are aware of all the new techniques and that everything possible is being done to make the organisation efficient.
Listening to the Minister one feels rather guilty about asking this question. He has given a comprehensive review of the situation, but is he aware of the fact that over £2 10s per week in bus fares must be borne by the father of a working class family or by a person earning £11 or £12 a week? This is a considerable amount, and I think there should be a bigger subvention from the State to help the lower income group.
If the fares had not been increased the loss in the present year would have been £3.256 million, £1,256,000 over the present rate of the subsidy. Next year it would be very nearly £5 million. One has to balance one element against the other. I should like to tell the Deputy that I think bus fares in Dublin seem to be in line, so far as I can make comparisons, with the provincial bus fares in Great Britain.
Having regard to the wages paid in Great Britain, are they in line?
Is the Minister seriously suggesting that wage rates in Dublin are in line with the absurd increase in the cost of living?
As the Deputy probably knows, there were certain groups of people in CIE who in relation to the onerous character of their work were paid less than they should be, and their wages have been increased quite markedly in the past five years, and very rightly so. In relation to the general rise in wages this is part of an inflationary situation of which the Deputy must be aware.
I am aware of the Minister's theory in that regard.
Question No. 25.
If the Deputy wishes I can refer to some other countries across the sea where similar conditions obtain and similar problems arise. This is simply partly an inflationary situation of the kind that exists everywhere in the economy, and it does not mean that we could possibly ask the taxpayer to pay more than a reasonable share of the cost of supporting a transport organisation which like others in Europe is losing money.
Is the Minister aware——
I have called Question No. 25.