Full details of the new beef cattle incentive scheme will be published shortly. The scheme is intended to benefit those herdowners who give the milk to their own livestock instead of sending it to the creamery and who, therefore, are not already assisted by the present very substantial milk subsidy. Furthermore the scheme is likely to benefit all creamery milk producers indirectly as it will minimise the increase in deliveries to the creameries and so help to keep down the amount of the producers' levy.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Cattle Incentive Scheme.
25. Mr. McLaughlin asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he will give full details of the calved cow subsidy scheme; and if he is aware of the heavy burden placed on small farmers by depriving them of the benefits of this scheme because they send some small supply of milk to the creamery.
Has the suggestion been made to the Minister, in the light of his earlier statements that this scheme was designed to persuade the larger farmer to confine himself to cattle breeding for meat rather than entering the already overburdened milk market that £8 per cow is too low and should be raised to £15, that this would be a more realistic figure if the purpose of the scheme was to be served?
I suppose one could scarcely disagree that £15 would be a better figure than £8 for the purposes of the scheme. On the other hand, it is really computed as to the national average milk yield per cow. This would be saying to the farmer in respect of each cow: "If you keep the milk at home we will give you 4d a gallon for keeping it there" instead of paying a shilling a gallon from the taxpayer's pocket if he sends it to the creamery. It may be argued strongly that if we were to give twice that amount to keep the milk at home, that is 8d a gallon, this would be a greater incentive to stay in beef or to get into beef than the £8 or the 4d per gallon equivalent average would be. However, this is likely to cost £2,500,000 or maybe slightly over that, and this together with the other provisions we are making towards the support of various commodities is undoubtedly a heavy burden on the taxpayer. These things must be weighed against that situation at all stages. Let us have a try at it on the basis on which it is. I think it will work. Whether it would work better if it was higher than this I am not prepared to dispute.
A neighbour of mine who feeds 20 cows uses 10 of them for supplying milk to the creamery and the other ten to rear 20 or 25 calves. Is the Minister trying to encourage that man to divert the milk from the creamery and rear livestock by giving him the sum of £160? This man is about 60 and is rearing a family of 11 children. Does the Minister really think that £160 is going to encourage him to forego the creamery cheque every month? I do not think it will, and I agree with Deputy Dillon that if the Minister would increase it to £15——
We cannot have speeches on this.
Is the Minister aware that the small farmer in the west, about whom we have heard so much recently, has to continue selling his small supply of milk to the creamery from a herd of four or five cows, and against that the Department is going to give £8 a cow to the man who may have 12, 14, 20 or 30 cows, simply because he is in that comfortable position and need not send milk to the creamery? He may be a man who does not need these few cheques from the creamery, but the small farmer has to carry on as he was.
No, the small farmer does not have to carry on as he was. He is getting a penny more for his milk than he was getting three months ago, and in addition to that, what I have said to Deputy McLaughlin in reply to his question——
(Interruptions.)
If you could only agree among yourselves what sort of scheme you want I could meet you, but you are going two different ways. However, I will answer the Deputy's question before I get any more questions. On the matter of the ten cows for milk and the ten cows for beef, the man has got to make up his mind whether he is going to——
He has to rear his family.
Do not be so naïve.
He is not in Donegal.
If he can rear them in Donegal on fewer than 20 cows, they should be able to do it in other parts of the country. In regard to the ten cows for milk and the ten cows for calving, if he wants to get the 20 subsidies, he goes out of milk with his ten cows. If he does not want that, we are taking nothing from him; in fact, we are giving him an additional penny per gallon for the first 7,000 gallons of his milk. Nothing could be fairer. If the scheme has the effect of taking out of or keeping out of milk men with far greater numbers than 20 cows, then it will enable us to concentrate the taxpayers' support of milk on the people who most need that support, namely the small producers, who constitute 80 per cent of our producers.
Give them the incentive and they will get out of it.
He is getting none at the moment. I am only trying to help the milk man. I would hope the Deputy would get wise to the fact that these two things are pointing in the same direction, because he has not yet grasped it.