Ceisteanna—Questions Oral Answers. - Secondary Teachers' Dispute. – Dáil Éireann (18th Dáil) – Thursday, 6 Feb 1969

Mr. P. Byrne

asked the Minister for Education if he will make a statement in regard to the present position arising from the dispute between his Department and the secondary teachers.

I would refer the Deputy to the full statement regarding this matter which was issued on behalf of my Department to the public press on the 2nd February and which with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to place on the records of the House. I have nothing to add to that statement except to remind the Deputy that the total remuneration which is now being offered to a secondary teacher here is £161 per annum more than has been offered to the comparable teacher in England in the past week.

Following is the statement:—

SECONDARY TEACHERS' STRIKE.

The Minister for Education feels that he would be lacking in his responsibility towards the public if he were not to place the following facts before them:—

(1) A teachers' salaries tribunal was established in December, 1967, with the following terms of reference:—

(a) To recommend a common basic scale of salary for teachers in national, secondary and vocational schools.

(b) To recommend what appropriate additions might be made to the basic scale in respect of qualifications, length of training, nature of duties, etc.

All three groups of teachers agreed to the establishment of this Tribunal and presented their individual cases in fullest detail to the Tribunal.

(2) The Tribunal reported in April, 1968, and recommenced a common basic scale for all teachers, with additions in respect of qualifications and length of training, and with allowances, heavily weighted in favour of secondary teachers, for posts of responsibility.

(3) The Government accepted the findings of the Tribunal.

(4) The Association of Secondary Teachers, having previously expressed dissatisfaction with the recommendations of the Tribunal, submitted a separate salary claim on the 23rd September, 1968.

(5) As the salary scales for all three groups of teachers fell to be discussed in the light of the tribunal findings, and having regard to the 11th round general wage increase, discussions between the Minister and representatives of these three groups took place on 4th, 10th and 18th October, 1968. Separate discussions with the teachers and managers of secondary schools took place on 14th and 15th October, 1968.

(6) Arising out of these discussions a formal offer comprising a common basic scale and additional allowances for qualifications and posts of responsibility was made to national, secondary and vocational teachers. This offer was accepted by the national and vocational teachers but was rejected on the 18th November, 1968, by the secondary teachers.

(7) On the 20th November, 1968, the Association of Secondary Teachers was informed that the proposals for a common basic scale of salary necessarily involved a single scheme of conciliation and arbitration for all teachers and that the Minister considered that the acceptance of the proposals by the national teachers and the vocational teachers precluded the possibility of a claim for a separate salary scale for secondary teachers being considered independently of such a scheme.

(8) On the 16th December, 1968, a further communication was addressed to the secondary teachers in which the facts referred to at (7) were repeated. It was suggested that discussions be held with representatives of the secondary teachers' conciliation panel with a view to facilitating arrangements for a three-sided meeting between managers, teachers and official representatives. No reply was received to that communication.

(9) At the request of the Council of Managers of Catholic Secondary Schools the Minister met representatives of the School Managers and the ASTI on 16th January, 1969. Arising out of the discussions at that meeting it was arranged that a meeting of the Secondary Teachers Conciliation Council be convened on 17th January, 1969. The Council met on that date and subsequent meetings were held on 22nd, 23rd, 24th and 27th January, 1969.

(10) The outcome of these meetings was that proposals were framed which resulted in the scales of salary and allowances set forth in the following tables:—

Woman or Single Man—Pass Degree, Pass H.D.E.

Year	Existing Scale	Salary Offer	Special Responsibility Allowances	Total Remuneration
	A.	B.	C.	D.
P.	679	921	—	921
1.	814	921	—	921
2.	846	954	—	954
3.	879	987	—	987
4.	911	1,020	—	1,020
5.	943	1,058	—	1,058
6.	975	1,096	—	1,096
7.	1,017	1,134	—	1,134
8.	1,059	1,172	100	1,272
9.	1,101	1,210	100	1,310
10.	1,142	1,255	150	1,405
11.	1,184	1,300	150	1,450
12.	1,247	1,345	200	1,545
13.	1,311	1,390	200	1,590
14.	1,375	1,435	250	1,685
15.	1,438	1,480	250	1,730
16.	1,501	1,525	300	1,825
17.	1,509	1,525	300	1,825

Column A. figures include non-pensionable element of £80 for Probationer to £200 at maximum of scale.

Column D. figures are all pensionable.

Married Man—Pass Degree, Pass H.D.E.

Year	Existing Scale	Salary Offer	Special Responsibility Allowances	Total Remuneration
	A.	B.	C.	D.
P.	692	1,140	—	1,140
1.	997	1,140	—	1,140
2.	1,036	1,185	—	1,185
3.	1,076	1,230	—	1,230
4.	1,115	1,275	—	1,275
5.	1,154	1,323	—	1,323
6.	1,193	1,371	—	1,371
7.	1,244	1,419	—	1,419
8.	1,295	1,467	100	1,567
9.	1,346	1,515	100	1,615
10.	1,396	1,570	150	1,720
11.	1,447	1,625	150	1,775
12.	1,514	1,680	200	1,880
13.	1,582	1,735	200	1,935
14.	1,650	1,790	250	2,040
15.	1,717	1,845	250	2,095
16.	1,784	1,900	300	2,200
17.	1,852	1,900	300	2,200

Column A. figures include non-pensionable element of £80 for Probationer to £200 at maximum of scale.

Column D. figures are all pensionable.

Additional allowances varying from £100 to £175 would be payable for honours qualifications.

(11) It will be seen that these proposals involved in the case of women and single men increases in total remuneration of 13% at the minimum and 21% at the maximum, including the allowance for definable responsibility. The respective increases for married men would be 14% and 19%. In weekly terms a single man or woman could have a total remuneration of £35 (an increase of £6) and a married man a total of £42 (an increase of over £6.10). It will be readily seen that for probationer teachers the percentage increases are very much greater.

(12) In connection with the claim of the ASTI that it should continue to be given private arbitration notwithstanding the recommendation in the Report of the Teachers Salaries Tribunal that there should be a common Scheme of Concilliation and Arbitration for all teachers, the ASTI must be aware that the other two groups of teachers have already made it clear that they are not prepared to tolerate a position in which matters vitally affecting them would be discussed and decided upon by any form of machinery in which they were not involved. The Minister for Education must accept that matters like levels of work and allowances for qualifications are such as should not be decided by an Arbitrator hearing only one group of teachers.

Furthermore the Minister is concerned that there should be mobility within the teaching service in the interests of education generally and that this will never be achieved if each group of teachers proceeds separately. This has been recognised long ago in Great Britain and in Northern Ireland where there is a common scale of salary and allowances for qualifications and posts of responsibility.

The Minister has made it clear to the ASTI that he is prepared to arrange for immediate arbitration on their claim provided right of hearing is given to the other two teacher groups. There could be no question in connection with such arbitration of any group of teachers being outvoted by other groups.

The Minister feels that the scales of remuneration now proposed are such as to make strike action on the part of the secondary teachers wholly unjustifiable. He must deplore the fact that this action will deprive the pupils who must be his first concern of their education.

Dr. O'Connell

Is the Minister referring to the advertisement by his Department which appeared in the Sunday newspapers?

Mr. B. Lenihan

Yes.

Dr. O'Connell

Would it be right to say that that advertisement was actually prepared before the strike? It must have been prepared obviously.

Mr. B. Lenihan

It was prepared at the termination of the conciliation proceedings when it was intimated by a ballot that a strike would take place.

Dr. O'Connell

Is the Minister aware of the fact that some secondary school teachers have worked it out that they will be receiving less under the new offer by the Minister than they were receiving before?

Mr. B. Lenihan

The Deputy is misinformed. We must be very responsible about this matter. I would refer the Deputy to the very detailed submissions and the factual survey of the whole situation which appeared by way of public advertisement in the two Sunday national newspapers last Sunday. As it happened, the Burnham Commission of Britain has been sitting for some time on the question of the teachers' salaries in Britain and they came out with their recommendations on the 31st January. That report also appeared over the weekend. They synchronised. Our maximum levels which were put in the form of proposals to the Association of Secondary Teachers (Ireland) run ahead of the proposals in the Burnham Commission Report for England and Wales. Our maxima run ahead of theirs by £161.

Mr. James Tully

How do the scales compare back down through the scale?

Mr. B. Lenihan

They are ahead at every level.

Mr. Ryan

Would the Minister not agree that it is not a question of comparing rates here with anywhere else? Does he expect teachers in the profession here to accept less than they were paid in the past? That is the reality.

Mr. B. Lenihan

I expect Deputies in this House to be responsible in a situation that requires responsibility.

Mr. Ryan

We expect the Minister to be right.

Mr. B. Lenihan

I can assure the House that at all levels the increases do not run below £3 10s per week and range from that up to £6 10s per week. We are talking in terms here, percentage-wise, of increases that range from 12 and 13 per cent up to 65 per cent at the early level. We are talking here in terms of a substantial offer which we made. Furthermore, I want to say that it has been made clear, on television and in the public press by the Association of Secondary Teachers that the money is not at issue at all. This has been made quite plain and in fact has been said by their spokesman. It comes down to one question, the hub of which is: will they agree to the Irish National Teachers' Organisation and the Vocational Teachers' Organisation sitting around a table at arbitration to make their case on an equal basis with the secondary teachers' case without any prejudice to the secondary teachers putting their claim and not being outvoted in any way by the representatives of the other bodies? All that is involved is the elementary, democratic right of all teaching bodies making their case before agreed arbitration.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 6 Feb 1969