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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 20 Feb 1969

Vol. 238 No. 10

Committee on Finance. - Insurance Bill, 1969: Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time.

The Insurance Act, 1953, provided power for the Minister for Industry and Commerce, with the consent of the Minister for Finance, to give guarantees with respect to the insurance of risks in connection with exports. The Act provides that arrangements for the giving of export guarantees may include agreements with assurance companies for the re-insurance of guarantees given by them. In exercise of these powers an agreement was entered into with a group of Irish insurance companies for the re-insurance of political risks insurance policies issued by them. These policies provide exporters with cover against the risk of loss due to such causes as action by foreign governments preventing the transfer of payment for goods to Ireland. Only in an exceptional case have these powers been used to insure commercial risks which are normally left to commercial insurance companies.

The guarantees which I am empowered to give under the 1953 Act must be for the purpose of encouraging exports. I have had representations concerning the need for similar guarantees in connection with design and planning services carried out by Irish firms for principals outside the State. I am advised, however, that my powers under the Insurance Act, 1953, do not extend to giving guarantees in connection with the rendering of services unconnected with external trade in goods or merchandise. I consider that it is desirable that I should have power to give guarantees with respect to the insurance of risks in connection with the carrying out of desing and planning services for principals outside the State similar to the powers which I have to give guarantees with respect to the insurance of risks in connection with the export of goods. The first purpose of this amending Bill is to extend the powers conferred on the Minister for Industry and Commerce by the Insurance Act, 1953, to cover design and planning services, the work on the rendering of which is carried out in the State in connection with engineering or constructional works executed outside the State.

In the Insurance Act, 1953, the aggregate amount of the liability at any time of the Minister for principal moneys in respect of arrangements under the Act was fixed at £2 million. In 1961 the Oireachtas increased the limit to £5 million. This is just barely sufficient to meet the present level of demand for export guarantees under the arrangements in force. I consider it necessary that the statutory limit of £5 million should be raised in order to provide for the growing demand for insurance cover for exports of goods arising from the increased volume of exports and also to provide for any liabilities that might be assumed on the guarantees in relation to the design and planning services. I think that £10 million is a suitable figure. The aggregate potential liability would, of course, become an actual liability only if all the risks covered by the insurance policies materialise. As Deputies will appreciate, that is an extremely remote contingency.

The present Bill will facilitate the expansion of our exports by making possible the continuance on an increasing scale of insurance cover for exporters of goods and the provision of insurance cover in relation to design and planning services for overseas clients. The risks to be covered which are inseparable from export trade are mainly risks of the type that cannot normally be covered by insurance or otherwise guarded against by commercial means.

We on this side of the House welcome this Bill. It is an extension of the 1953 Act as the Minister has pointed out. In the past Córas Tráchtála provided insurance for all commodities, for goods and for services exported abroad. It is the intention of this Bill to apply this also to architects and to engineers

We believe that this is money well spent. As the Minister stated, it will help to bring money into this country in the form of fees in respect of overseas design and planning services and these fees could be of great significance in helping to right our balance of payments and I suppose the money could also be used to help give employment to our own people in our own country. We on this side of the House are 100 per cent in favour of that. I remember Deputy Sweetman and the late Deputy William Norton in 1956 bringing in a Bill to give inducements to foreign industrialists and to others to invest money here and to give employment to our people. At that time one of the first to come in was the Whitegate Oil Refinery which brought £12 million and gave employment to 500 or 600 Irish people. We all know that Irish boys and girls have brains and ability. Our missionaries blazed the trail in years gone by and we have no doubt that our architects and engineers can also blaze trails abroad and, as the Minister pointed out, can help abroad by seeing that Irish materials and Irish goods are purchased. Indeed, they can be very valuable ambassadors.

It is unfortunate that at the present time almost two-thirds of our graduates, having been educated here, must emigrate. It is a pity that this unfortupower is lost to Ireland. It is unfortunate that we have this brain drain. Anything that this Minister or this Government or any Government of this country can do to give direct or even indirect employment to those people will be welcomed by this side of the House. We welcome this Bill. We wish the Minister and Córas Tráchtála every success in the future with it.

On behalf of the Labour Party I would like to support this Bill too. We in the Labour Party are anxious that all guarantees should be given to encourage exports. Exports. of course, are the life of the country.

I have two questions to put to the Minister. First, what kind of demand was made in the past on this fund by commercial firms? Secondly, what amount has the Minister in mind to cover design and planning? It seems to me that there is a very slight risk on that particular side. I should like to know if he has a figure in mind. How much does he think in his own mind should cover design and planning?

(Dublin South-Central): I, too, have one or two questions. How much of the £5 million did it cost the State at that time? Was any of it availed of? I can quite appreciate the necessity for insurance. Does this also cover political insurance, especially companies that are exporting to countries where there is political unrest? Does the Bill cover this type of export? I think this is desirable. Some of our companies may be exporting to countries where there is political unrest. I am sure the Bill has this in mind. I welcome the Bill and I think it is desirable that our exporters should be covered especially where there is any type of risk.

I thank the House for the reception of this Bill. It will, of course, be clear that it is tied in with the previous Bill we dealt with in connection with exports.

The Bill has two objectives—one increasing the amount which I may guarantee and the other the extension of the arrangements to the design and planning by people operating within the State on construction abroad. With regard to the first one, the question of the amount, I am not in a position to answer the question put by Deputy Kyne exactly but I may be able to give some indication of the position.

At 31st March, 1968, the maximum potential liability of the Minister under the arrangements made under the 1953 Act was £4.6 million which left a balance of only £400,000 uncommitted from the statutory limit. The amount of the maximum potential liability of the Minister varies at any time up and down according to the number of political risks insurance policies in force at a particular time. At the 30th June, 1968, the maximum potential liability of the Minister stood at £3.9 million. Guarantees which have been issued since then are likely to bring the aggregate potential liability very close to the statutory limit of £5 million. I cannot say what figure we could put in in respect of the liability under design and planning, but I agree with the Deputy that the figure is likely to be fairly small. It does seem clear from the growth of exports, from the figures that are quoted, and from the fact that we are having some success in trying to diversify some of our exports with a consequent greater demand for political risks insurance, that the liability is likely to go up, mainly in respect of the export of goods rather than services. The figure of an additional £5 million was arrived at having regard to the necessity for keeping the matter under the control of the Oireachtas by bringing it in again from time to time. As I say, I cannot give the exact figures which were requested.

On the question of what has been done in the Bill about the extension of the guarantees to planning and design services, there is just one point I ought to make clear, that is, that there is no intention of expecting Irish architects or engineers to specify inferior goods for contracts which they would undertake abroad. They cannot do this if they are to observe their professional standards. I want to make it quite clear that we are not expecting them to do that. What we are expecting and hoping they will do, when they undertake contracts, is to ensure that the Irish manufacturer will get the opportunity of supplying his goods when they are at least as effective as foreign ones. In a number of cases Irish-produced goods are superior to many that are specified. We are not expecting any concession for Irish manufacturers in this regard other than the opportunity to have their goods used if they are equal or superior to what might otherwise be specified.

Question put and agreed to.

I have a technical problem. This is a Money Bill. I understand it has to go to the Seanad. There is a slight problem there. Let us order it for next Tuesday.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 25th February, 1969.
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