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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 23 Jul 1969

Vol. 241 No. 8

Garda Síochána Pensions Order, 1969: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann approves of the Garda Síochána Pensions Order, 1969 made on the 15th day of July, 1969, by the Minister for Justice with the sanction of the Minister for Finance under Section 13 of the Police Forces Amalgamation Act, 1925.

The Garda Síochána Pensions Order, 1969, which I ask the House to approve, provides for two minor additions to the Garda pensions code, which are explained in the memorandum which has been circulated to Deputies.

Firstly the Order provides that Gardaí with temporary service in the Taca Síochána may now reckon such temporary service in full for pension purposes. Members of the Taca Síochána were recruited in a temporary capacity in 1939, at the outbreak of World War II and they were absorbed into the Garda Síochána proper on a pensionable basis in 1942.

Until 1965, temporary service in the Taca Síochána was not reckonable for ordinary Garda pension purposes. In that year, it was accorded recognition as to one-half for Garda pension purposes, following the making of a similar arrangement in the public service. The present provision, which will enable temporary service to be reckoned in full for pension purposes, brings the force into line with a new arrangement made some time ago in the case of the public service.

Secondly, the order provides for the reduction from six to five years of the qualifying period of service for the payment of marriage gratuities to ban-ghardaí. This also brings them into line with the civil service.

I commend the order for the approval of the House.

(Cavan): Although this is a simple order dealing with two points, I regard it as important because it goes some way towards narrowing the gap between the position of the Garda Síochána and other State servants in relation to pensions and terms of service. I, therefore, welcome it so far as it goes.

The Minister has stated that it proposes to enable members of the Taca Síochána to reckon their entire service as members of that force for pension purposes although not for lump sum gratuity purposes. It might be no harm at this stage to make it quite clear that the Taca Síochána is in no way associated with a rather notorious political arm of the Fianna Fáil party.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

They are not associated with the Blue Shirts either.

(Cavan): History will prove that the Blue Shirts will stand high and will play a proud part——

Or the Broy Harriers.

(Cavan): As the Minister has introduced this I should like to put on the record that the Blue Shirts were responsible here for establishing free speech.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

(Cavan): They were responsible for establishing the right of every citizen to stand up and make his point.

Would the Deputy keep to the order before the House?

(Cavan): I intend to, Sir.

And the Minister too.

(Cavan): I just want to dissociate this force, the Taca Síochána, from this other objectionable lot.

It is true to say that members of the Taca Síochána who came into the Garda Síochána under that arm had a very small salary, as low, I understand, as £3 a week. They proved to be very fine officers and most of them, on account of their educational qualifications, et cetera, became high officers in the force. It is a good thing that they are now being treated in this way. It is also reasonable that the qualification period for a marriage gratuity for members of the banghardaí should be reduced from six years to five years, which will bring them into line with other State servants.

It is of the utmost importance that members of the Garda Síochána, our unarmed police force, should have no genuine grounds for complaint in respect of their terms of service or conditions of employment because it is essential that they should be a satisfied and contented body of men, not labouring under any genuine grievance or grudge because they are daily coming into contact with every citizen of the State, law-abiding citizens as well as law breakers. It is essential, therefore, that they should be satisfied and contented and that they do not have genuine chips on their shoulders, because if they are labouring under genuine grievances and are of the opinion that they are being less favourably treated than other State servants it is then almost certain that they will not discharge their duties as well as they otherwise might. As I understand it, the members of the Garda Síochána have genuine cause for complaint when compared with other State servants and with other police forces in Europe.

I submit, Sir, that this is an irrelevant line. There is, in fact, a commission sitting dealing with conditions in the Garda force. I suggest that a wide-ranging discussion is not in order.

(Cavan): With respect, Sir, this is an order dealing with Garda pensions and I propose to confine my remarks from now on — in fact, I have reached that stage — entirely to a grievance which I consider the Garda Síochána have regarding the question of pensions and to suggest improvements that can be made in Garda pensions. I respectfully suggest that this is in order.

A discussion on pensions generally would be for the Estimates. The Deputy must confine himself to the order before the House.

(Cavan): If that is so I must stand up here and say I agree with this order or I disagree with it. Subject to your ruling, Sir, I want to say that I am in order in suggesting that the Minister, when introducing this order or framing it, should have dealt with other matters relevant to Garda service and conditions. I do not intend to speak for more than ten or 15 minutes.

The order before the House deals with the question of pensions.

(Cavan): That is what I propose to deal with. I do not propose to deal with Garda salaries or conditions of employment other than pensions.

This is confined to a particular class in the Garda Síochána, the Taca Síochána, with an amendment regarding banghardaí.

They pensioned off the other Taca group too.

(Cavan): This is an order which proposes that the Garda Síochána Order, 1955 (SI No. 115) be amended and I want to suggest to you, Sir, with respect, that, as it is proposed to amend the Garda Pensions Order of 1955, it is in order for me to speak on pensions. A discussion has arisen as to whether it is in order for me to deal with Garda pensions in general——

This is in the same position as an amendment in Committee and you are completely out of order if you go outside the terms of the amendment.

(Cavan): The Deputy is not in the Chair and I wish he would let me make my submission. I propose to go on until I am ruled out of order. I am making the point that I think it is highly desirable that members of the Garda Síochána should, in all respects, enjoy at least as favourable conditions as other State servants. According to my information, at present there is a considerable gap between the pension rights enjoyed by members of the Garda Síochána and the widows of serving members of the Garda Síochána and other State servants.

Debate adjourned.
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