Vol. 243 No. 9
asked the Taoiseach whether the statement made by the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries on the Northern situation on the question of the possible use of force represents the views of the Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
9.
asked the Taoiseach if in the light of the statement of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries on 8th December there has been a change in the Government's policy regarding the use of force to achieve the reunification of the country; and whether there has been any change in the view that Partition can only end with the consent of the majority of the people in the Six Counties.
10.
asked the Taoiseach if his attention has been drawn to the reported statement of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries at Letterkenny on 8th December, 1969, regarding Partition; and if this statement reflects Government policy.
11.
asked the Taoiseach if he will state with reference to the statement made by the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries on 8th December on the use of force in Northern Ireland whether it represents Government policy; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
12.
asked the Taoiseach if his attention has been drawn to the statement made by the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries in Letterkenny on 8th December, 1969; and if this statement represents any change in Government policy.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 to 12, inclusive, together.
I would refer the Deputies to my statement of the 9th December (copies of which are in the Library) to which I have nothing to add.
Would the Taoiseach be a little less ambiguous than he was in that particular statement? Would he also clear up this matter about his appreciation of the deep feelings which the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries has with regard to the problems of the Six Counties? Might I suggest to him if the Minister has such deep feelings, which appear to be in conflict with his own statement, then the Minister should in all conscience resign? Would the Taoiseach tell us whether or not the view of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries that the question of the reunification of this country should be left to the people of the whole 32 Counties is the view of the Government? Would he also say whether or not the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries was right when he said that Fianna Fáil had never taken a decision to rule out force if circumstances in the Six Counties so demanded, whether that decision was specifically taken by the Government or by the Fianna Fáil Party at any stage, and whether the comments of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries were valid when he talked about force?
If I take the latter part of the supplementary question first, the Fianna Fáil Government and the Fianna Fáil Party have stated over and over again it is their policy to seek the reunification of the country by peaceful means, and having stated that as an assertion I do not think there is any reason for us to say we rule out the negative. If a person says he is going to do a thing in a certain way he does not have to disclaim other ways.
Do not make it worse.
It is Government policy and has been so declared by me. I reject completely that my statement of last Wednesday, as published by the Information Bureau, was in any way ambiguous. It referred to two previous statements made by me which said Government policy to be, as I said it was, that we seek reunification by peaceful means. The Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries accepts that as far as the reunification of the country is concerned. As far as seeking majority decisions in parts of the country for it I accept entirely that Partition was effected against the wishes of the majority of the people but as a practical matter now we have to ensure that we can win over the majority of the people in the Six Counties before we can make reunification fully effective and permanent.
Could I ask, arising out of the latter part of the Taoiseach's reply, how the Taoiseach reconciles the statement by the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries and his statement? If I may be permitted, in order to put the question fully and fairly to the people, to quote the two sets of statements which seem to me to be irreconcilable, and to ask the Taoiseach how he reconciles them, the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries in his statement said it was important to correct recent misconceptions about the rights of the majority of the people——
It is not in order to have quotations at Question Time.
The quotations would take a good deal less time to read than certain replies we have had. However, in view of your ruling I would ask the Taoiseach to reconcile the statement of Deputy Blaney, Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, in which he specifically rejected the proposition in words which I am prepared to quote, if the Taoiseach challenges them, that Partition should end only with the consent of the majority in Northern Ireland, with his statement in his Tralee speech, in his opening speech in Dáil Éireann and in his closing speech in which he not alone endorsed the Fine Gael policy which specifically said this but claimed in regard to it: "After the Fine Gael ten point plan was announced I said it did no more than reiterate Government policy declared on a number of occasions. There is nothing new in it." He fully endorsed this policy which specifically says that Partition should and could end only with the consent of a majority in Northern Ireland. Could I ask the Taoiseach how he reconciles those repeated statements of his since September the 20th with the totally contradictory statement of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries?
There is no question of reconciliation.
That is what we thought.
There is no question of having to reconcile statements. I have said already what the Government policy is, and I am saying that without any equivocation. The Government policy is, as I said, to seek reunification by peaceful means, that we have no intention of using force, we have no intention of imposing our will by force. I cannot say that with any greater degree of unequivocation.
Can the Taoiseach say if the speech made by the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries had his prior approval? Is the Taoiseach aware that Opposition MPs in Belfast on the Saturday of the weekend before the speech was made were aware that Deputy Blaney on Tuesday night in Letterkenny, or on whatever night he spoke there, would in fact be making a speech in which force under certain circumstances would be advocated to solve the northern problem? Is the Taoiseach aware of this? Had the speech his prior approval.
That is an assertion the Deputy is making.
That is an assertion I am making and I am prepared to stand over it.
In fact, I believe it is completely untrue.
I can tell you it was made.
Arising out of the Taoiseach's reply, which is related to the use of force, the question I asked referred to a quite different part of the Minister's speech, that is, on the concept of Partition ending only with the consent of the majority in Northern Ireland. I asked my question arising out of the concluding part of the Taoiseach's first reply. I want to know if it is Government policy that Partition could and should end only with the consent of the majority in Northern Ireland and, if it is so, am I to take it from what he said that this is not reconcilable with the statement of the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries to the contrary?
I have already answered that question.
The Taoiseach answered a different question. Could we be clear that that is Government policy?
I was not aware of the contents of the speech in advance.
Opposition MPs in Belfast were.
I do not believe they were.
They were.
That is not so.
I am calling Deputy Barry Desmond who has a question down.
In the national interest could I ask the Taoiseach would he make a clear and unambiguous statement that it is Government policy that Partition could and should end only with the consent of a majority in Northern Ireland?
I have answered that already.
May I ask the Taoiseach if he has had clarification from the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries as to what precisely he meant by the particular circumstances in which force would be operable in the Partition situation? Surely the Taoiseach is entitled to know what the Minister means in clarification, in elaboration, as to the circumstances because the Taoiseach specifically heard the Minister refer to "if the circumstances so demanded". Let us have it out on the floor what the circumstances are the Minister was alluding to, or are we now reaching a situation of not just "Let us back Jack", but "Let us stab Jack", which is, in effect, what we now see coming out in this House?
I discussed the Minister's speech with him and there is no need to clarify the matter. He clarified it himself. There is no need either to reiterate his acceptance of Government policy as I have enunciated.
Question No. 13.
With regard to my first supplementary, when I accused the Taoiseach of being ambiguous about this affair, I do not accuse Deputy Jack Lynch of being ambiguous but I think we are all concerned about this. I accept what the Taoiseach, Deputy Jack Lynch, said but he is there as Leader of the Government, talking for the Government and it appears to me and the members of my party, because we are so concerned about this, that there is real conflict within the Cabinet and, for the sake of the people in the Six Counties and the people in the 26 Counties, this should be cleared up.
It must be resolved.
May I say, to help Deputy Corish, there is no conflict in the Cabinet with the situation and with the policy, as I have announced.
I am calling Question No. 13.
In view of the unsatisfactory reply I propose to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
There is conflict in the Cabinet.
I can assure you that you people are not going to divide the Government anyway.
Good man.
They are divided already.
13.
asked the Taoiseach whether any member of the Government is specially designated with responsibility for dealing with Northern Ireland affairs.
The Taoiseach normally deals with matters relating to Northern Ireland.
Would the Taoiseach agree in the wake of recent events that this will be honoured in the future by other members of the Cabinet, that it will be he alone who will speak on the national question?
Do not talk nonsense.
Is the Deputy serious?
There undoubtedly exists, as far as we can see, conflict in the Cabinet on this question. The Taoiseach has one view, Deputies Blaney and Boland have another. The question is which view is to prevail?
My view is the Government's view and that is the view which will prevail.
I am glad to hear it, but for how long?
In a couple of weeks time Deputy Boland will be making a second speech. The Letterkenny Parliament are making the speeches.
