asked the Minister for Education (a) the number of children attending national schools on 1st February, 1963, and 1st February, 1968, (b) the number of national teachers at each of these times and (c) why the number of classes with 40 or more pupils has increased in this period in Dublin by 24 per cent, from 1,429 or 71 per cent of the total to 1,769 or 76 per cent of the total, and in the rest of the country by 4 per cent from 2,892 to 3,000.
Ceisteanna—Questions, Oral Answers. - School Statistics.
86.
The number of children attending national schools on 1st February, 1963, and 1st February, 1968, was 483, 188 and 490, 554 respectively.
The number of national teachers serving on 30th June, 1963, and 30th June, 1968, was 14,218 and 14,737 respectively.
As regards the third part of the Deputy's question the explanation is that the shift of pupils to areas of larger population was not matched by a comparable movement of teachers. The securing of larger school units in rural areas will ensure that this imbalance is rectified.
I take it that there are now in the Greater Dublin Area at least 75,000 pupils in national schools in classes of more than 40.
The Deputy stated that as a fact on television last night.
I am glad the Minister for Finance watches television.
If the Deputy had waited until I had given an oral answer to his question I would have explained to him that the shift in population into the larger areas was not followed by a pro rata shift of teachers.
Is there a serious problem?
I would say we are dealing very well with this serious problem.
I am glad the Minister admits there is a serious problem.
With this problem, I should say.
Could the Minister give us any idea how many national schools there are in Dublin with more than 52 in class?
I have already given that answer on more than two occasions.
The Minister said such classes were less numberous now than they used to be. Progress has been made.
In relation to 50, but Deputy Desmond was speaking about 40. The Deputy must remember that we have increased the number of teachers very, very considerably in the Greater Dublin Area.
I accept that.
We have increased the overall number. If you take the average pupil-teacher ratio for the whole country it is below the number we envisaged and we are closing the smaller schools in an effort to rationalise the whole situation. This takes time.
It is the children of the poor who suffer under this system.
What is the Deputy's question?
We are particularly concerned about all this and we are, I think, dealing with it satisfactorily.
Would the Minister agree that there are at least 2,000 classes with more than 35 pupils, which is the recommended minimum?
I have already explained to the Deputy the manner in which we are dealing with this. In the past ten years we have made 1,000 extra teachers available. Between 1963 and 1968 we made 500 extra teachers available. We are now in process of making 200 extra teachers available per year. I think we are doing reasonably well.
But there is still a shortage of teachers.
I have explained that we would not be short a single teacher if we were able to rationalise our total teaching force.