asked the Minister for Defence (a) the number of Six County refugees still in Army barracks in the Republic, giving separately men, women and children and (b) if any effort is being made to have them rehoused in their former homes or nearby areas.
Ceisteanna—Questions, Oral Answers. - Six County Refugees.
96.
The total number of refugees from Northern Ireland in Gormanston refugee centre as on the 16th December, 1969, was 92, consisting of 16 men, 19 women and 57 children. Gormanston is the only Army refugee centre now open.
While I have no detailed information regarding the re-housing of refugees in the north, I understand that this aspect is being looked after by, amongst others, Trench House, the relief co-ordination centre, in Belfast. There has been certain liaison between the Irish Red Cross Society social worker in Gormanston and Trench House. The latter has been supplied with particulars of the families in Gormanston refugee centre.
Does the Minister not agree that Gormanston military camp is a most undesirable place in which to house families over the winter period and will he not agree that if those families cannot be returned to their homes some effort should be made to have them billeted somewhere that would be more comfortable than in a military camp which is over 50 years old and has very few modern amenities?
I am sure the Deputy is aware of the circumstances in which these people came to Gormanston in the first instance and it is hardly necessary to elaborate on them. He is also aware that Gormanston is a military camp and was never designed for use as a refugee centre. We all hope that those who are now in the camp as refugees will be allowed back to their homes as soon as possible.
While Christmas is a time for wishing and while wishes are supposed to come true, at least in pantomime, wishing that the refugees will be returned to their homes while at the same time doing nothing to get them out of Gormanston camp, where they are anything but comfortable, is not the proper attitude. I am not blaming the Minister personally because a Government decision should be taken on the matter. The people who are there are either entitled to be there and should be treated properly or they are not entitled to be there and something should be done about it. Would the Minister not try to ensure that, since the camp is terribly uncomfortable, for soldiers as both he and I are aware, even in summertime, some suitable place would be found for these people before the winter becomes really hard?
The Army authorities have excelled themselves in the efforts they have made to make conditions in Gormanston as comfortable as possible for those who are still there. They have succeeded to a great degree and the refugees themselves have told me that they were looked after very well by the Army authorities. Most of the refugees intend to go back to their homes as soon as conditions permit. That is the situation now. I do not think there is any general wish on the part of the refugees in Gormanston to remain in this part of the country.
I do not want to prolong Question Time but as the Minister knows I live very close to Gormanston and, perhaps, I know the conditions there, for more than one reason, better than the Minister does. I think he will agree that in a place where there are only outside toilets, which are several hundred yards from the billets, where the only cooking facilities are communal and where the dining halls are also several hundred yards from the billets and are very old, no matter how hard the military authorities work it cannot be made suitable accommodation for men, women and children? Would he not agree that before the weather becomes any worse something definite should be done either to have these people back in their homes or provide them with some decent accommodation? Otherwise, they will not leave the South of Ireland with very good impressions of the conditions under which people live here.
What the Deputy is asking for, in fact, is a reproduction of ideal domestic conditions within an Army camp converted for use as a refugee camp. It must be clear that you cannot get ideal domestic conditions in a camp such as that. Those who are in Gormanston Camp are there as a result of dire emergency and the camp was prepared for use in conditions of dire emergency. I do not think it is realistic to hope for absolutely ideal domestic conditions since that is the case.
In view of the fact that Gormanston Camp is, perhaps, the worst camp that is at present occupied in Ireland surely the Minister could find somewhere more comfortable for refugees?
I do not agree at all that Gormanston is the worst camp available for this purpose. On the contrary, a great deal of special reconstruction and new construction works were undertaken specially for the benefit of the people who are now in the camp. I would say this also, that I would think that the last people who would complain about conditions at Gormanston Camp are the refugees who, after all, are the people most affected.
One does not complain too much when one is a guest of somebody else. The only reconstruction work done there was that a few barriers were put up in billets to hold 24 men so that they could hold 30 or 40 women and children.
I would think that Deputy Tully's general trend on this subject is rather unfair to the Department of Defence and to the authorities generally who took over this job of handling large numbers of people who were driven out of their homes in recent times in the other part of the country. I think that the people most affected would be the last to criticise the arrangements that were made for their reception at the camp.
Would the Minister be able to say if all the children there have parents with them or are there families there without parents?
I am afraid I have not got that information but the breakdown that I gave the House of the numbers of men, women and children would give the impression that most of the children are accompanied by parents—possibly their mothers.