asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he will now take steps to have a harbour authority established at Whiddy Island with a view to levying port and tonnage dues on vessels using this port
56.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - County Cork Harbour Authority.
55.
asked the Minister for Transport and Power whether he is reconsidering the establishment of a harbour authority in the Bantry Bay area; when he is likely to make a decision in the matter; and what functions such a harbour authority would have in addition to the regulation of shipping.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose taking Questions Nos. 55 and 56 together.
This matter was fully dealt with in reply to previous questions answered on 6th and 26th November, 1968, and I have nothing to add.
While it is true that replies have been given to questions raised on previous occasions, is it not correct that all the dialogue and discussion centring around the proposals to establish this harbour authority emanate from an allegedly secret agreement made between the Department and the Gulf Oil Company in the initial stages?
There is no question of a secret agreement. The Gulf Oil Company installed all the facilities themselves without any cost to the State or to the local authority.
Accepting the Minister's statement that it is not a secret agreement may I then reiterate my request to have the agreement made available to Cork County Council?
Neither Deputy Donegan's question nor Deputy Murphy's question relates at all to this matter. The Deputy appears to be concerned with the question of establishing a harbour authority and if he puts down a question on the other matter I shall answer it.
The Minister replied to my question by grouping two questions together. If normal standards prevailed, dues totalling £250,000 would be payable annually.
£1 million.
I am always conservative about figures. These dues, amounting to a formidable figure, are not being paid because of this agreement and surely the Minister should give the House and the local authority more information——
This sounds like a speech.
I shall ask a question. The Minister's predecessor, Deputy Childers, told us that an agreement had been made for the payment of £7,000 annually—if my recollection is correct—and that that payment, together with the payment of rates, which every citizen has to make, are the only payments falling on the Gulf Oil Company at the present time.
Plus the cost of installation which would have been in the region of £500,000.
In view of all these facts will the Minister make the files available? I am, of course, very well aware of the advantages this project has for Bantry.
Deputy Murphy cannot make a speech. This is ridiculous.
Will the Minister make the files available to the county council so that they can see what the position is and what the terms of the agreement are, as implied by previous answers given by Deputy Childers?
This is not related to the question asked by Deputy Murphy. If the Deputy puts down a separate question on the advantages related to the installation of terminals, the installation of facilities, and the other advantages accruing to the State, I shall certainly answer a question on that basis. Will the Deputy put down the question and I will relate my answer to the precise advantages both locally and nationally that the provision of these facilities entails?
What about——
Will the Deputy put down a question to that effect?
Does the Minister not have regard to the fact that there is a depth of water there which will allow these ships to bring their full tonnage and that nowhere else in the world, except Kuwait, is that depth of water available and that Gulf Oil at Kuwait had to put the biggest underwater pipeline in the world ten miles out at sea to get that facility? Does he think that we as a nation should give that facility, not 300 yards out at sea for nothing when, in fact, the ordinary tonnage and port dues, as given in reply to my Question No. 14, on Thursday, 21st November, 1968, would indicate an income for a harbour authority there of £1 million a year and, even if we gave one half of it back because of transhipment, it would be £½ million a year? Surely the Minister would say that that facility of that depth of water is worth something to this nation, as he admitted to me on the Estimate only a little while ago? I feel very strongly and would ask the Minister, please, to look at it, realising that if he goes back on the debate of 21st November he will find clear evidence that Gulf Oil in their own magazine, by their own statement, indicated that they had no objection to paying port and tonnage dues and no objection to the establishment of a harbour authority. I do not want to hold up the House.
As regards the question of a harbour authority, I have no objection whatever to such an authority if the need arises. The need might arise in the event of——
To collect port and tonnage dues.
——in the event of conflicting interests obtaining at the port. In that situation, the need for a harbour authority might arise but at the present time the interests of everybody concerned both locally and nationally in regard to the income to the State are best served by direct negotiation between my Department and Gulf Oil, as has taken place heretofore.
Is it not true that these ships can dock there and pay no port and tonnage dues and that the loss to this country, according to the amount being paid by other importers of oil, is £1 million a year? Is that not true?
I am not going to be cross-examined like this.
That is what you are meant to be at Question Time.
The Deputy should behave himself. He has been totally irresponsible on recent questions in the House. The Deputy may put down a question. The installations already provided there by Gulf Oil are well in excess of £½ million. These are already provided.
What did it cost to put a 48-inch pipeline ten miles out at sea at Kuwait?
If you had a separate harbour authority, they would be responsible for maintaining and adding further installations in that area.
They would not be.
If the Deputy, as I suggested to Deputy Murphy, puts down a question in which I will be required to balance out the advantages both locally and nationally, I will answer that question. Both questions relate to the limited matter of establishing a harbour authority. I would ask the two Deputies to put down this particular question next week or the week after and I will answer them fully and in detail as to the balance of advantages that lies to us both locally and nationally in this matter.
How much did it cost to put a ten-mile pipeline into the sea at Kuwait?
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I would like to ask a final supplementary question. Would the Minister not agree that as Bantry is now an internationally known port with facilities that are not available in other renowned ports throughout the world, it is entitled to have a harbour authority? There are harbour authorities at smaller ports, such as Fenit, Baltimore, Skibbereen and other places and, having regard to the significance of Bantry port, the recommendation of Cork County Council that a harbour board be established is just and reasonable.
The Deputy is well aware that harbour boards are not the answer to all problems, that harbour boards have not been the answer to many problems.
Why have harbour boards if they are of no advantage?
In some cases they are.
The remaining questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.