asked the Taoiseach whether the Government is in the course of reviewing the Constitution with a view to so changing it that those articles which would be considered to constitute obstacles to the ultimate reunion of the Irish people would be submitted to the public for amendment; if the Government has formulated any proposals in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Amendment of Constitution.
1.
As I have previously indicated in this House, studies have been in progress for a considerable time on matters affecting Irish unification. In accordance with a recent Government decision an interdepartmental unit comprising senior officers of my Department and of the Departments of External Affairs and Finance has been established to examine all matters affecting north/south relations, to keep in close touch with all aspects of Anglo-Irish relations having a bearing on the situation, and to arrange for the study in depth of short-term problems as well as longer-term difficulties. The unit is required to report its activities to me through the Minister for External Affairs.
The specific constitutional amendments to be proposed to the Oireachtas and the timing of their submission will depend on the nature and progress of developments.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that Article 44.2 of the Constitution which recognises the special position of the Catholic Church gives offence to other religions and also is used by those who wish to try to emphasise the differences between us? In those circumstances would the Taoiseach not reconsider his decision to reject the all-party recommendation that that article should be deleted in the interests of national unity?
I agree in general with the views of the Deputy on Article 44. I do not think it does anything to enhance the special position of the Catholic Church and it could certainly create the difficulties suggested by the Deputy as far as other religions are concerned. I have already said that publicly and so have high-ranking members of the Catholic Church. I would suggest that in view of the likelihood of amendments being necessary in the event of our accession to the European Economic Community, and in view of the likelihood of other amendments being likely or desirable as well, all the amendments might be treated at the one time if possible. In other words, as the Deputy is aware, a Bill will have to come before the Oireachtas and will have to be passed before a referendum could take place. Rather than engage in repetitive expense for piecemeal amendments I think the overall amendment would be better.
Would the Taoiseach not recognise that there is a difference between constitutional amendments which are likely to be taken in two years time and the urgency of the situation in relation to the North of Ireland? Would he not accept that his decision to reject the all-party committee recommendation which contained the comment that the Article gave offence, was divisive in its influence, leads one to believe and leads our opponents to believe that the Taoiseach is unconcerned or indifferent to the offence caused to other religions, is indifferent to the divisive influence it has, is in some way afraid of appearing to give offence to the Catholic Church thus increasing the suspicion which people who are anxious to emphasise the differences have that the Catholic Church still exerts an undue influence on decisions taken by politicians in the south, and, finally, that the Taoiseach is not genuine in his undertaking to take all the necessary steps at this particular time in our history to remove any real or imaginary obstacles which exist between ourselves and our fellow Irishmen in the north?
The Deputy is not right when he suggests that I am afraid of giving offence to the Catholic Church——
Appearing to give offence.
——by stating my views on Article 44 because if my views give offence then offence has already been given more than once, and in advance of any declaration about Article 44 from the hierarchy. Secondly, views on Article 44 have been expressed by myself, members of the Opposition and by other authoritative people, including members of the Catholic Church, and I do not believe that offence of the nature suggested by the Deputy could be given by the continued existence for a short couple of years more of Article 44 in our Constitution but if I saw it as a crucial issue in the immediate months ahead, then there would be some case for taking special action in relation to Article 44.
I gather that the Taoiseach's intention is to aim at one referendum, one subject being changes in the Constitution, as referred to in his Tralee speech, and other changes relating to membership, if we arrive there, of the EEC. Would the Taoiseach not agree that final negotiations and decisions in regard to the EEC may take 18 months or two years and two years in the opinion of my party and myself is a little too long to delay a referendum on changes in the Constitution related to the situation we have in the North of Ireland? There is also the added factor that there is a growing demand for votes at 18. There are votes at 18 in the north and in Great Britain and would the Taoiseach not agree that this important change should be made by way of referendum as quickly as possible?
That would be one of the possible developments to which I have referred when I said that any action taken will depend on developments. As of now, the Minister for Local Government is actively examining the question of providing votes at the age of 18 and if that has to be done then it ought to be done in advance of the next general election if possible. If our accession to the European Community is so far off as to be after the next general election, then it might be necessary to come in with an amendment about votes at 18 and possibly Article 44 in advance of the——
I presume that when the Taoiseach speaks of votes at 18 he is thinking in the same terms as I am, that votes at 18 should also be applied to local government elections and as far as I know——
That does not need an amendment of the Constitution.
Will the Government introduce legislation in the near future to provide for votes at 18?
I have instructed the Minister for Local Government to give close attention to the question and that is being done.
Would the Taoiseach agree that Article 44 is not the only Article that may need to be looked at in the context of our relations with the North of Ireland?
I do.
Irrespective of whether Article 44 is deleted, is it not reasonable to assume that the church to which 95 per cent of the population belong will have a special place in Irish life at all times and surely it is not to be assumed by anybody that we will remove the church which has that membership from the special place which it holds to please the people in the North of Ireland or in any other part of the world?
The Deputy should take that up with the Labour Party.
(Interruptions.)
It is your job to answer that. You are the Taoiseach.
I am not responsible for the Labour Party.
Deputy Keating has a final supplementary to ask.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that there are now quite different issues coming up for constitutional amendment? There is the question of votes at 18, the position of the Catholic Church and relations with Northern Ireland and the question of sovereignty. His expressed intention is to have a single referendum on all these issues. That would be very complicated. It would involve many questions being put to the voter, some requiring "Yes" and some requiring "No". If the democratic procedure of a referendum is to be made to work as well as possible, and if proper campaigns are to be organised so that the real issues can be debated and then adjudged, would it not be desirable to have two or three different referenda to adjudicate on quite different subjects rather than mixing them all up together?
The necessary preliminary is to have a Bill passed through the House and the Bill has to state the purpose of the constitutional amendment. We could have separate Bills and separate issues on the one day of referendum: in other words, we could have differently coloured pieces of paper on which people could express their views.