asked the Minister for Education if he will state in relation to each of the years since 1960 for which such information is available the position in each of the national schools in Dublin of which particulars have been supplied to him (a) total number of teachers; (b) whether the principal teacher spends more or less than half his time teaching; (c) the number of special and remedial classes; (d) the number of other classes; (e) the total number of pupils; (f) the number of classes of more than 60 pupils; (g) the number of classes of 50-59 pupils; (h) the number of classes of 40-49 pupils; (i) the number of classes of 30-39 pupils; and (j) the number of classes of less than 30 pupils.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Dublin Schools Statistics.
27.
Statistics relating to national schools are prepared on a county basis with a separate breakdown for the county boroughs. The inordinate amount of time and trouble involved would preclude information of the nature sought by the Deputy from being prepared. Furthermore, considerations of the public interest enter into a matter such as this where unless detailed explanations were given in each case invidious comparisons might be drawn.
I might add for the Deputy's information that where details are sought as to classes with numbers from 30 upwards the position in special classes has no relevance as there is no special class with numbers approaching 30. Neither does the amount of time spent on teaching by the principal of the larger schools enter into the matter as in every case the class numbers are related to whole-time teachers.
Can the Minister reconcile his answer today with that which he gave me the last day? I asked this question on the last day on a group basis. He said the information was not available by wards. I asked for it in relation to the individual schools in the area. He replied that, if I gave him the names of individual schools, he would see what he could do about it. He is now telling me that that was a misleading reply; that it is not the practice to give information on schools and that he is not prepared to do so.
I said I would see what I would do. I found it would take an inordinate amount of time to find out this information for the Deputy. If I were to ask my Department to facilitate the Deputy in this particular instance, every Deputy could put down a similar question and the whole time of my Department would be taken up in getting this sort of detailed information.
In view of the fact that the figures for a county or a county borough have to be compiled by adding together the figures for individual schools, why is there any work involved in breaking them down? I am asking the Minister to give the figures that have to be added up.
The Deputy asked for very much more than that. He asked for information which involved the number of special and remedial classes; the number of other classes; the total number of teachers, and so on. We have not got all that——
The Minister must have that information in relation to each individual school, if he is able to give it in relation to all the schools together. He could only arrive at the figures for all the schools in an area by adding up the individual data. I am asking for the individual data.
I have not got some of the individual information the Deputy is looking for.
Question No. 28.
May I ask the Minister——
We cannot discuss this question all evening.
——if, in reply to my question, he would state what information is not available as distinct from what information he is refusing to give me.
I am not refusing to give the Deputy information. The Deputy is very well aware of the fact that numerous questions are put down to me every week, many of them by the Deputy. I have done my utmost on every occasion to give all the information possible, so long as it did not take up an inordinate amount of time in my Department. I have already explained to the Deputy that my Department, as he is very well aware, is a very busy Department. If my officials were to look into all this very, very detailed type of information, which I cannot see is of very much value, the whole time of my officials would be taken up.
Can the Minister explain why it takes any time——
We cannot discuss this question all evening. There are 93 questions on the Order Paper. Question No. 28.
28.
asked the Minister for Education if he will state in relation to the national school system in Dublin city in all years since 1960 for which such information is available (a) the total number of teachers (i) including all principals and (ii) excluding principals less than half of whose time is spent teaching; (b) the total number of classes; (c) the total number of pupils; (d) the number of classes with over 60 pupils; (e) the number of classes with 50-59 pupils; (f) the number of classes with 40-49 pupils; (g) the number of classes with 30-39 pupils; and (h) the number of classes with less than 30 pupils, giving separate data for the group of special and remedial classes (e.g. blind, deaf, dumb, mentally handicapped, and autistic children) and for the remaining classes.
The information sought by the Deputy, in so far as it is available, is in the form of a tabular statement, which with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to circulate with the Official Report.
Class—Sizes Dublin City (excluding Special Schools and Secondary Tops)
|
1963 |
1967 |
1968 |
1969 |
|
|
Total Classes |
1,937 |
2,288 |
2,329 |
2,434 |
|
Total Pupils |
89,055 |
99,889 |
100,468 |
103,439 |
|
Classes: |
||||
|
50 and over |
870 |
547 |
550 |
437 |
|
40 to 49 |
559 |
1,220 |
1,219 |
1,359 |
|
30 to 39 |
299 |
330 |
351 |
401 |
|
Under 30 |
212 |
191 |
209 |
237 |
Could the Minister tell me what information is not available?
This would entail going through the whole answer which is a pretty long one. I have given the Deputy information in relation to total classes, total number of pupils, classes with 50 and over, 40 to 49, 30 to 39 and under 30.
Thank you.