asked the Minister for Education the annual capitation grant paid to the girls' reformatory at St. Anne's, Kilmacud, in each of the past five years.
110.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - County Dublin Reformatory School.
109.
asked the Minister for Education when the inspector of reformatory and industrial schools last visited the girls' reformatory at St. Anne's, Kilmacud, and what the report of this inspection was.
111.
asked the Minister for Education if capitation grants will continue to be paid to the girls' reformatory at St. Anne's, Kilmacud, in view of the statement in the Report on Reformatory and Industrial Schools Systems that this institution is not fulfilling the purpose for which it was originally founded.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propost to take Questions Nos. 109, 110 and 111 together.
The annual capitation grant paid to St. Anne's school, Kilmacud, in each of the past five years was as follows: 1965, £3,620; 1966, £3,930; 1967, £3,910; 1968, £4,510; 1969, £5,480.
This school was last visited in May, 1970. While inspectors' reports on all schools are of a confidential nature I can say that the report of the inspection in question was fully satisfactory. There appears to be a degree of conflict between the school authorities and the courts as to the stage at which an erring girl should be referred to St. Anne's and this matter is under investigation. I am satisfied that the school is, however, fulfilling the basic purpose for which it was originally founded.
The Parliamentary Secretary said that he has read from the 1970 report but has he read the statement in the report that this school is not fulfilling the purpose for which it was founded?
I have. It is a very short and precise statement.
Will the Parliamentary Secretary read it out?
The Deputy will appreciate that arrangements are under way to have consultations. It is possibly a matter of a difference of attitude between the courts——
Will the Parliamentary Secretary——
Just one moment, if the Deputy wants to get an answer. Unfortunately Deputy FitzGerald was not here to ask supplementaries on his questions and most of my information relates to his questions.
I did give the Parliamentary Secretary an opportunity of coming back.
What page is it on?
Page 37. It says:
In the case of the girls' reformatory at St. Anne's, Kilmacud, which is also certified as an industrial school, payment is made on the notional number of 40, regardless of the number of girls actually detained there at a particular time. We found, however, that St. Anne's were reluctant to accept girls who were known to practise prostitution or who, on conviction for an offence, were found to be pregnant. On the occasion of one check of a number of girls in the school we found that only three girls on the roll were committed by the court as delinquents. It is obvious therefore that St. Anne's is not fulfilling the purpose for which it was originally founded.
I may say that the management of the school—and possibly there may be room for discussion on this—are anxious to get girls at the early stages. Apparently the general practice of the courts up to this has been to give them the benefit of the Probation Act for the first and second occasion so that in many cases by the time they come to St. Anne's they may be somewhat more hardened than would be desirable. All who are interested will be pleased to know that consultations are under way. Of course everybody will appreciate that the courts are independent in the discharge of their duties but consultations are under way as to how best the courts and St. Anne's can implement the interests of the girls committed to them.
Can the Parliamentary Secretary say if this matter was revealed by the normal inspection system or only by the report? Are there regular inspections?
As I indicated, the last inspection was in May, 1970. It was, of course, in advance of a report.
It was in advance of publication of the report but not in advance of the report.
What inspections were there before then?
That question was not asked.
Could the Parliamentary Secretary say the basis on which capitation grants of £5,480 were given this year, because obviously it appears that this school wants the girls at infant age. I should like to know the numbers that were present there because the committee found there were very few in it.
The maintenance capitation grants are paid by the Department on a notional figure of 40.
Is there any authority for paying on a notional figure?
The Deputy can be satisfied about the legal authority but whether others would do it in another way is a different matter. However, I think he will find that the money is being put to the best possible effect.
In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I should like to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
Well, I would believe anything after that.
The Deputy will appreciate that he is late on this occasion for raising a question on the Adjournment.