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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 27 Jan 1972

Vol. 258 No. 5

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Unemployment Assistance.

13.

asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will indicate whether EEC conditions subsequent to the transitional period allow for the continuance of the payment of unemployment assistance to farmers on a land valuation basis; and if so, if he will quote the relevant Treaty regulations authorising such payments.

As indicated in paragraph 3.54 on page 24 of the recent White Paper on the Accession of Ireland to the European Communities, membership of the EEC will not impose any direct obligation on this country to modify our system of social security. I am not aware of any condition of membership or provision in Community regulations which would affect the continuance during or subsequent to the transitional period of the payments referred to in the question.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary accept that a Labour Party delegation in Brussels got very definite information from the responsible Commissioner that there would be no question of paying unemployment assistance to farmers in Ireland on the present basis when the transitional period expired? Would he agree that the responsible Commissioner stated that the Irish Government could not pay such an allowance from their own funds, that it is a matter that would be controlled by the Commission? Will the Parliamentary Secretary say if the Article he has quoted and which I shall have an opportunity of referring to when I have time to read it covers the Commissioner's assertion that this type of direct subvention payable weekly to farmers on the valuation system is not allowable according to the regulations of the Commission and must definitely cease when the transitional period expires?

I have no information as regards what the Deputy has said.

No wonder we say the Government does not know all the facts.

This question seeks information so that the people will know. If we are wrong I shall be the first to admit it. Would the Parliamentary Secretary tell us if the Department have made any inquiries from the Commission as to whether this is so, because our information was quite definite and specific? We were told there was no precedent for this and the Commissioner said that undoubtedly he could be quite definite that such direct weekly payments to members of the farming community would not be allowable and that the only question of paying allowances to farmers would arise in the case of farmers over 55 years of age, who would be considered unsuitable for retraining and who would hand over their lands.

Would Deputy Murphy be in a position to indicate the alleged regulation of the Community on which this statement is based?

This is a question asked at Question Time in the Dáil and the usual procedure is for Deputies to ask questions of the Government——

The Deputy is going on to make assertions.

The Government have the Civil Service behind them and it is the Government's job to supply the information.

This is developing into an argument which is not in order.

The Parliamentary Secretary has supplied some information about an Article which we shall have an opportunity of reading but our information is quite specific.

The Deputy is making a statement.

The Minister for Finance might pull a "con trick" on the people in order to get this thing through.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy Murphy is saying that he has information——

Surely when the question was put down the matter should have been queried with the people responsible so that the Deputy could get the information in this House.

The question has been answered.

No, it has not. Deputy Geoghegan is quite honest about this. He says he does not know.

(Cavan): The Minister is trying to cover up.

Since there is a conflict between what is reported and what the Parliamentary Secretary has said could I ask for an undertaking——

This would not be in order at Question Time.

I am asking a question. I am asking if the Parliamentary Secretary would give an undertaking to the House, in view of the fact that there is a conflict between the content of his answer and a conversation at which I was present—and I corroborate the content of it as given to the House by Deputy Murphy—that he will communicate with the Commission, raising the precise Question No. 13 on today's Order Paper, and communicate the answer to the House as quickly as possible? Can we have that undertaking in order to clear up genuine confusion?

I shall refer the question that has been asked to the Minister.

Pending our entry, we do not have direct access by questions to the European Parliament and we have to ask questions about the Community at this stage entirely in this House and it is, therefore, important that we should have this procedure.

May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary not to delay or shilly-shally about this matter but to give us his own undertaking that the machinery of the Government will be used to obtain the information and make it available in this House without delay?

I have said that I will refer this question to the Minister. The Minister is at a function. He does not delay in dealing with matters.

He delayed in dealing with the dole issue.

I am calling Question No. 14.

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