Vol. 259 No. 1
asked the Minister for Education if his attention has been drawn to a statement (details supplied) that educational institutions which have not got an enrolment of over 400 pupils are not eligible to present candidates for the leaving certificate examination; how many such educational institutions will be affected in 1972-73; and if, in the light of this development, he will make a statement on the general trend of secondary and vocational education.
47.
asked the Minister for Education if he will make a full statement on his plans regarding the discontinuance of leaving certificate courses in schools; the schools which will be affected by his plans; the numbers attending each of the schools which will be affected; and if he will state the ratio of pupils successful in the leaving certificate examination at schools with pupils of 150, 250, 350, 400 and over.
48.
asked the Minister for Education (a) the present position with regard to the secondary school at Durrow, County Laois; (b) his proposals with regard to the leaving certificate course in that school; and (c) his reasons for discontinuing the course there after 1976.
49.
asked the Minister for Education (a) the present position with regard to the secondary school at Rahan, Tullamore, County Offaly; (b) his proposals in regard to the leaving certificate course in that school; and (c) his reasons for discontinuing the course there after 1976.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 46, 47, 48 and 49 together. In introducing the Estimate for my Department, I dealt with this question of junior and senior cycle centres. Basically, the position is that in order to be able to offer a reasonable choice of subjects at leaving certificate level, catering for both pass and honours level courses and having teachers qualified to teach these subjects, it is normally necessary to confine this provision to centres with an enrolment in the region of 400 pupils. Smaller centres will provide courses up to intermediate certificate level only and the pupils who wish to follow a leaving certificate course will then transfer to a larger centre. There is no point in having an educational guidance service if the courses recommended by the guidance teacher are not in fact available to the child. To achieve the position which I am aiming at, it was first necessary to stop the proliferation of centres providing leaving certificate courses and this was why my Department refused to sanction such courses in small vocational schools which had not previously provided leaving certificate courses. More recently my Department notified 14 small secondary schools that grants would not be paid in respect of first year leaving certificate pupils next September. It was then represented to me that children at present in these schools had entered them in the expectation that they could complete their post-primary education there. Because of this, I agreed that pupils already in these schools could complete their leaving certificate there but children entering these schools next September should be informed that it will be necessary for them to transfer elsewhere for their leaving certificate courses. These 14 schools included the Durrow Convent. The school at Rahan has already ceased to enrol first year leaving certificate students. The amount of official time and trouble involved in breaking down the results of the leaving certificate examination as between schools with various enrolment figures would be entirely unwarranted. Apart from this, information related to pass level at the leaving certificate would in no way indicate the problem which is involved. I can assure the Deputy, however, that sufficient investigation of the overall position has been carried out to show that percentagewise in relation to the scope and quality the achievements of the larger schools are much greater than those of the smaller schools.
In view of the most recent statement by the Minister, which I heard personally, that he has particular sympathy for the rural schools, will he have another look at the position of some of our rural schools in areas where there has been a decline in the population over the years? I have in mind particularly Ballycastle in the northeast Mayo area. Already a deputation has called on the Minister in connection with this matter.
What the Deputy heard me saying was that I have a particular concern for the pupils in rural Ireland and that my policy, and the Government's policy, is to provide equality of educational opportunity for all our children in so far as that is possible, which is quite different from what the Deputy has just said.
The Minister said that 14 schools would be affected. For the guidance of the many parents who will be concerned about this, will the Minister publish the names of the 14 schools?
This is known.
To whom is it known? It is known only to the Minister.
It is known in the areas concerned. The parents know all about it.
We are not to be told. The Dáil cannot be told.
Does the Minister not know that children are sent long distances to residential schools outside the areas? They should be informed on the situation that will arise because of this decision.
I can assure the Deputy that nobody concerned is unaware of the position.
Is the Minister aware that this has a serious effect on schools in the west of Ireland? Deputy O'Hara mentioned Ballycastle. If the senior cycle was not carried out there perfectly, if the results were not perfect, if the staff were not perfect we should be told. This will have a serious effect on the west of Ireland.
I can only repeat that my concern is to ensure that the children in rural Ireland will receive equality of educational opportunity with the children in the larger towns and cities, which is their right.
I rose before anyone else and I insist upon asking a question.
(Cavan): Is the Minister saying that only 14 schools will be affected?
I want to ask the Minister whether his Department have gone completely mad. The suggestion is that a secondary school which has not got 400 students cannot give a proper leaving certificate. Have they taken leave of their senses? Who are the people who make these judgments and these decisions? What qualifications have they got to make such decisions?
What say have the parents got? None.
The Remaining Questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.
