asked the Minister for Transport and Power the total assets of the CIE operative grades pension fund.
12.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - CIE Pensions.
11.
asked the Minister for Transport and Power if the Government have any proposals for ensuring that CIE operative pensioners have the same conditions as those operating in other semi-State bodies.
13.
asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he will consider a national pension agreement for CIE operative grade pensioners to bring their pensions into line with present day costs and wages.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 11, 12 and 13 together.
The amount standing to the credit of the CIE wages grade pension schemes at 31st December, 1971, was £7,717,135. I must point out that, while the fund is increasing, the liabilities on the fund are increasing at an even greater rate and, in fact, the fund is only kept solvent by annual subventions from CIE on the advice of the actuary.
The pensions payable to CIE pensioners comprise both payment from the CIE pension fund as well as social welfare benefits. As recommended by the Commission on CIE Pensions and Sickness Benefit Payments in March, 1964, the total payments made to long service pensioners retiring after 1st April, 1963, are intended to amount to about two-thirds of retiring wages.
The CIE wages grade pension scheme does not provide for increases in pensions already in payment but the social welfare payments are, as the Deputy is aware, increased from time to time by the Minister for Finance and are due for further increases from October next.
The conditions of the CIE wages grade superannuation schemes are generally in line with similar schemes in other semi-State bodies.
In a reply to a question on 8th March, 1972, I gave information to show that in the period 1960-1970 the total weekly income of CIE pensioners has more than kept pace with the increase in the consumer price index over the same period. Because of further increases in the social welfare benefits since 1970, the overall pattern has not altered appreciably and the total income of CIE pensioners has, therefore, kept pace with present day costs and wages.
Is the fact that these pensioners did not get increases along with increases in the cost of living in line with the position with regard to other pensioners?
It is linked with the increases in social welfare benefit.
Let us ignore the social welfare end——
By reason of this approach, their scheme is better than most of the other pension schemes in semi-State bodies. I will give the Deputy particulars of the relative positions as between CIE and other semi-State bodies.
Is it not peculiar that the wages grade pension scheme is not subject to review in respect of pensions paid and is it not about time the system was changed to allow for increased pensions to retired CIE workers?
I am concerned with what goes into pensioners' pockets and I have been telling the Deputies that it is higher in the case of CIE. I will make the relativities available to the House.
Is the Minister aware that CIE pensioners now have to collect their pensions at their nearest depot rather than having them posted to them?
I will look into it.
Would the Minister not agree that it is a hardship on pensioners who live distances away?
This was not adverted to. I will have it looked into.
Is it not a fact that the real value of these contributory pensions has declined considerably and has it not been declining continuously?
I will make available to the Deputies who have asked questions and to the House particulars which will show that CIE pensioners are better off than most others.
We got a certain amount of information last year but will the Minister not agree that the £7.7 million is declining in value by a faster rate in comparison with the total amount of pensions paid out?
The liabilities are increasing as well.
Will the Minister answer the question?
I am answering the Deputy's point in another way. I said the liabilities are also increasing. There is a £14 million liability.