asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if it is proposed to sanction the application for fare increases recently submitted by CIE.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - CIE Fare Increase Application.
29.
As I stated in connection with the publication of the National Prices Commission's Report for April, 1973, I decided not to accept the increases in Dublin city bus and suburban rail fares recommended to me by the commission in that report pending discussions with the Ministers for Finance and Transport and Power on the whole area of CIE activities.
I expect to receive, in the very near future, the commission's recommendations on their investigation of the fares and rates increases sought by CIE for their other transport activities. Pending these recommendations and the outcome of my discussions with the Ministers for Finance and Transport and Power, I cannot say what increases in rates and fares, if any, will be approved for CIE.
Having regard to the socio-economic role of CIE, which I presume the Minister accepts, is he satisfied that the Prices Commission are adequately equipped to deal with fare applications from CIE, judging them, as they would, by the narrow price criteria without taking into account the social function of CIE, the employment question and other aspects of the matter? Is the Minister satisfied that these matters properly come within the ambit of the Prices Commission?
I might point out to the Deputy that the opinion of outside consultants who are specialists in the transportation area was obtained by the National Prices Commission. That is the first point. The second point is that I indicated that in the end this was a matter for decision at Government level which is why I held up the implementation of the NPC recommendation. In regard to the real kernel of the Deputy's question, I should point out also that it is the area of responsibility of the Minister for Transport and Power and not of myself; it is only the price aspect— because I am the person responsible for price legislation—that comes within my area of responsibility.
I appreciate that it is the area of the Minister for Transport and Power but the Minister will, I think, acknowledge that CIE personnel may be subject to criticism that might be unjustifiably directed against them and it is important that the morale of the company——
The Chair is anxious to hear the Deputy's supplementary question.
In view of that, would the Minister urgently consult with his colleague to ensure that this type of delay and reaction will not occur in the cycles in which, apparently, they have occurred in the past few months and that we can take a There will, of course, be some diffi-comprehensive approach to applications for increases whether from CIE or the ESB because——
The Deputy is engaging in a lot of elaboration which is quite unjustified.
I did not quite catch the Chair's comment.
The Deputy elaborated too much which is quite unjustified at Question Time.
I do not think it was unjustified. Having regard to the importance of the question I cannot see how the Chair can suggest that it was unjustified.
And the public concern about the whole problem.
I can only assure the Deputy that I have taken note of what he has said. I think that employees of State and semi-State bodies are often subject to unjustified criticism and it is, of course, a matter of importance to see that this situation does not continue longer than is absolutely necessary.
I thank the Minister for his reply. Could I ask finally if he accepts that if the applications— the one submitted now to the Prices Commission and the one under consideration by him in consultation with the Ministers for Finance and Transport and Power—are not sanctioned he accepts that CIE will then go into a greater loss situation and that the moneys will have to be made good from the Exchequer by way of further increased subsidies?
I accept that transport must be paid for whether totally through fares or partly through fares and partly through subvention from the Central Fund. This is a truism which applies in every country and there is discussion in every country as to the method by which a national transport service will be financed. This is not peculiar to Ireland.