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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 30 Oct 1973

Vol. 268 No. 6

Coiste Airgeadais. Committee on Finance. - Holidays (Employees) Bill, 1973: Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The main purpose of this Bill is to increase from two weeks to three the workers' minimum annual holidays entitlement with pro-rata entitlements for periods of employment of less than a year. In other words, the Bill is a synthesis of the practices followed in good employment. Provisions in the Bill also deal with holiday cesser pay and public holiday entitlements on a basis broadly similar to the 1961 Act.

The provisions in the Bill do not apply to agricultural workers. They are covered by separate legislation administered by the Agricultural Wages Board. Deputies will be aware that the Government have already announced that the legislation which determines the wages and holidays of agricultural workers is under review in consultation with the interests concerned. I have taken power in the Bill, with appropriate ancillary and supplemental provisions, to bring agricultural workers within its scope by affirmative order of the Oireachtas if it should be considered appropriate to do so.

Since the existing minimum statutory holiday entitlements of two weeks' leave and six public holidays were prescribed in the Holidays (Employees) Act, 1961, the majority of workers have, through collective bargaining, secured an additional week's holidays. The general position now is that the three-weeks minimum holiday obtains in good employments throughout Irish industry. This Bill will however assist those workers who cannot invoke the aid of a trade union and who are deprived of holiday entitlements by virtue of their weak bargaining position.

Apart from increasing holiday entitlements, the Bill has a number of other features which are an improvement on the 1961 Act. It prescribes a standard "leave year" beginning on 1st April each year, which will apply to all workers. This replaces the provision in the 1961 Act whereby leave entitlements were related to a worker's "employment year" based on the date on which he took up employment and anniversaries of that date. Thus, employees in the same firm could have different "employment years" depending on the date on which they started work. This Bill, if enacted, will simplify matters inasmuch as leave entitlements for all employees would be calculated in future by reference to the same "leave year" from 1st April to 31st March.

The qualifying conditions for entitlement to annual leave have also been eased. Under the 1961 Act, an industrial worker had to complete 1,600 hours during his "employment year" in order to qualify for the two weeks annual leave. There was no provision for proportionate leave entitlement for an employee working less than 1,600 hours except where he ceased employment. Under this Bill, as drafted, an employee will be entitled to paid leave in a leave year in which he has completed at least one "qualifying month of service", comprising a calendar month in which he works at least 125 hours, or 115 hours if under 18 years of age. For 12 such months, the worker qualifies for three weeks leave, and he gets proportionately less for 11 or fewer qualifying months. If he has eight or more qualifying months of service, he is entitled to an unbroken holiday period of two weeks. There is provision for excluding from an employee's annual leave period a day on which he is sick, provided he furnishes a medical certificate. There was no corresponding provision in the 1961 Act.

The prescribed minimum of 125 hours in a "qualifying month of service" makes allowance for the general reduction which has occurred in the working week since 1961 and for possible absences due to sickness and other reasons. Casual and short-term workers would also qualify on this basis. The Bill has also removed the distinction between the qualifying conditions for leave purposes as between "domestic" and "non domestic" workers which existed under the 1961 Act. It was one of the anomalies of earlier legislation on holidays that one of the most exploited sections of our work force, domestic workers, had this underprivileged position enshrined in the law. This has now been corrected.

Provisions in the Bill about public holiday entitlements and for compensation, where workers opt, or are obliged, to work on public holidays, are somewhat similar to those in the 1961 Act. However, a full-time employee automatically qualifies for public holiday entitlements if he is in employment at that time; he does not have to work for a specified minimum number of hours beforehand. This is an improvement compared with the 1961 Act.

The provision about leave arrangements permits an employer to decide when annual leave may be granted but only on certain conditions. These include consulting with the employee or his trade union at least one month beforehand and allowing the leave to be taken within the relevant "leave year" or within six months after it ends. Thus, for the leave year starting 1st April, 1974, holidays may be allowed in the 18 months between that date and 30th September, 1975. Flexibility of this kind is designed to benefit both the employer and/or the employee.

Sections 7, 8 and 9 of the Bill contain the usual provisions relating to prosecutions of offences and the recovery of moneys due to an employee. The provisions in sections 10 and 11 about the keeping of records and the enforcement powers of inspectors are similar to those in the 1961 Act. However, the provision about records has been made more precise to facilitate inspectors in checking compliance with the provisions of the Bill. A specific requirement has been placed on employers to keep records of annual leave for examination by inspectors.

In order to ensure that this legislation, as an instrument of social reform, retains a capacity to be adjusted in accordance with desirable social trends, under section 13 I have taken powers to modify provisions in the Act by regulations. The use of such powers would require prior consultation with the appropriate workers' and employers' organisations. There is also a requirement that drafts of regulations, for the purposes of section 2, must be laid before each House of the Oireachtas with a view to securing their approval by means of affirmative order. In this way it will not be necessary to introduce amending legislation on each occasion when a major change is being made in relation to the "excluded categories" while ensuring, at the same time, that the Oireachtas retains full control over such changes. I think this power is necessary as this is the third piece of legislation we have had on holidays, and for changes envisaged in the future we should not have to embark on the procedure of fresh legislation.

Section 16 provides that if the Bill is enacted annual leave or public holiday entitlements shall no longer arise under the 1961 Act. That section contains transitional bridging provisions, however, whereby workers will be able to preserve title to any holiday entitlements acquired under the 1961 Act while, at the same time, they would be building up entitlements under this Bill, if enacted. In order to avoid very complex provisions which would be only of a temporary nature, simply designed to ensure this bridging effect, a special formula was designed which would afford a worker a choice of two options when the proposed Bill comes into force. First, he can claim the statutory compensation in lieu of holiday entitlements, whether in respect of annual leave or public holidays, due to him under the 1961 Act in the same way as if his employment ceased on the day before the new Act comes into force. If he accepts the cesser pay involved, further holiday entitlements will accrue only under the new Act. Alternatively, with the agreement of both parties, he may carry over leave due to him under the 1961 Act into the new "leave year". This arrangement was included in order to give effect to my wish that no worker should suffer loss of benefit to which he would otherwise be entitled under the 1961 Act simply as a result of the new Bill being enacted.

As regards section 17 and the Schedule to the Bill, I should explain that, following consultation with the Minister for Finance, it was decided that in future I should be responsible for administering legislation about public holidays. Under existing legislation there are six "public holidays" to which this Bill applies. I have taken power, however, to appoint, by regulations, new public holidays or to change an existing public holiday to a different day. I have also taken this opportunity to formally substitute the first Monday in June as a public holiday instead of Whit Monday. This will obviate the need to make an annual order changing it, which was necessary under the present legislation.

Similar flexible arrangements have been made in the case of Church holydays. I feel that flexible measures of this kind are desirable to avoid unnecessarily cumbersome legislative procedures, especially when these matters are for the most part noncontroversial.

At this point I should like to say a word about public holidays in general. The position is that Britain and Ireland have the fewest public holidays of all EEC countries although Britain has now decided in favour of an extra public holiday. Both countries have at present six public holidays. And, as I said, Britain has made a decision to have an extra one. That leaves Ireland at the bottom of the list with six public holidays just below Britain.

The position elsewhere in the EEC is that Italy has 17 public holidays, Germany ten to 13, depending on the province, Belgium and Luxembourg ten, Denmark nine to ten, depending on regional variations, France five to ten and the Netherlands seven. Clearly here in Ireland our working people in the public holidays they enjoy will have to be brought closer to the European norm. Naturally from a position where we are lowest in the table, this will require a phased approach in consultation with both sides in industry.

I have decided to add an extra public holiday to the present six which we have and the Government have so agreed. January 1st has been mentioned as a likely date. Before making any formal decision on the actual date of this new public holiday, I would hope to consult further with unions and employers because I should like to see our approach on this process of the levelling up of the number of our public holidays to that enjoyed in other EEC countries proceeding in as comprehensive a fashion as possible rather than piecemeal. I am proceeding with this consultation and, before the Bill passes all stages, I hope I will be able to make a more concrete statement on the matter.

This holiday legislation is the product of a great deal of consultation with both employers and trade unions. Its provisions are designed to provide that workers in a weak bargaining position, who cannot invoke the aid of a trade union, enjoy holiday entitlements which remain in line with those prevailing in good employment currently.

In legislation of this kind consultation with employers and unions is of a continuing kind. Due to developments since its drafting I should like to inform the House that I propose during Committee Stage to move the following amendments:

(a) Provide in section 3 that, as an alternative to qualifying for leave entitlements on a monthly basis only, an employee in continuous employment who works 1,400 hours, or 1,300 if under 18 years of age, in a leave year, may also be entitled to three weeks holidays irrespective of the number of hours worked during any one month. This restores a somewhat similar provision contained in the 1961 Act;

(b) Provide in section 3 subsection (6) that the minimum hours per "qualifying month of service" for leave entitlement purposes shall be amended to read 120, or 110 hours if under 18 years of age, instead of 125 and 115 respectively, as appears in the Bill as circulated. These reductions are considered justified in line with the general trend towards a 40-hour normal working week;

(c) Provide in section 5 subsection (2) that compensation for annual leave in respect of cesser of day-to-day employment where the employee has worked 120 hours during the preceding 30 days shall be at the rate of 1¼ days' pay. This will bring the compensation into line proportionately with annual leave entitlements on the monthly basis.

Looking at the Bill as a whole, the House will, I think, agree that its provisions, including the amendments which I have mentioned, represent a further legislative advance in the conditions of employment of a large number of Irish workers. It is a very simple and straightforward piece of legislation which, at the same time, will afford flexibility for modifications in appropriate cases.

I am naturally anxious to have the Bill enacted well in advance of the beginning of the new "leave year" on the 1st April, 1974, to afford both workers and employers ample time to familiarise themselves with its provisions, and to enable them to make the necessary arrangements about leave entitlements on the new basis. For these reasons, I commend the Bill to the House and look forward to the speedy passage of all its Stages.

I welcome the Bill. Anything Dáil Éireann can do to improve the lot of the Irish worker will get our support. I can assure the Minister that no obstacle will be placed in the way of the passage of the Bill. I am glad to see the improvements on previous legislation which the Minister has written into this Bill and the modifications and adjustments which he has mentioned. To move with the times it was necessary for us to up-date our legislation. Many important aspects of the Bill which the Minister mentioned will have the support of every member of our party. The Minister was wise to take powers to make amendments or alterations in the future.

Since the 1961 Act through collective bargaining a considerable number of workers have secured three weeks paid annual holidays but a section of unorganised workers have not. This Bill will give them that entitlement in a positive way. It serves an excellent purpose in so far as it grants this minimum number of holidays to unorganised workers. Various arguments have been put forward by employers in relation to unorganised firms who, they claimed, had an advantage over the workers and over the firms by virtue of the fact that some paid for holidays and others did not. This Bill compels them all to pay and that is desirable. Some employers are not so co-operative and they evade their responsibilities by pointing out that no provision in the Act forces them to pay.

I should like the Minister to take note of a situation which developed with Dublin Corporation under the 1961 Act. I do not think this aspect is provided for in the Bill and I would ask the Minister to take it into consideration before Committee Stage. If an employee died in the service of Dublin Corporation there was no provision whereby payment could be made for a holiday entitlement to that person's representatives. This has caused an amount of concern to widows. They were entitled to back pay or to the pay to which the person was entitled but, on the question of holiday pay, some employers, including Dublin Corporation, evaded their responsibilities. I hope the Minister will ensure that, if a person dies in employment and he had an entitlement to annual leave, payment will be made to the next of kin. I understand that the law agent advised the corporation on this, and I understand they sought advice from the Attorney General. Many widows have suffered and I hope there will be an appropriate section in the new Bill to deal with it.

On the question of what the future holds for Irish workers, and workers as a whole, we are working towards the draft social action programme of the EEC, and working towards four weeks annual paid holiday by 1976. I hope we will not be behind other countries on this occasion and that our workers will obtain this even prior to 1976. It is desirable and necessary that in industry, where there are pressures and tensions and the development problems which cause considerable strain to workers in conveyor belt conditions or in production lines, all involving monotony, the workers should have reasonable periods of relaxation. We must endeavour to move towards a situation in which it will be possible, by way of extra relaxation time, to alleviate the stresses and strains of the present age. Experience has shown that where additional holidays were granted to workers there was a remarkable increase in productivity. More mental power is required of workers in this technically advanced age and that is another reason why it is necessary to have legislation of the type now proposed.

Another important aspect is that we must meet our wider commitments as members of the EEC. If workers are under the impression that their conditions of employment are to their disadvantage rather than to their advantage they cannot be expected to give of their best. I welcome the Bill and assure the Minister that we on this side of the House will co-operate with him in expediting it through the House and that where possible, we will try to have it improved so that those workers who are being deprived of the additional holiday period proposed will become entitled to it without delay.

There are a few aspects of the Bill I find difficult to understand, but which the Minister may elucidate for me in his reply. The first of these is in relation to section 12, which refers to reward being irrecoverable for work done during annual leave. We are not told whether the reward is irrecoverable by the employee or the employer. The section is vague in this respect. There is also the question of the suspended worker. Suspension is a device that is used from time to time by some employers for the purpose of victimising a worker. I should hope that suspension, as against dismissal, would not in any way debar a worker from full entitlement to annual leave. I hope this aspect is covered in the Bill; if not, it should be covered before the Bill is enacted. In some cases workers have been suspended for as long as six or eight months. This is an undesirable situation and one, which, if allowed to develop, might be adopted by more employers.

I wish the Minister well in his new post.

I join with the previous speaker in welcoming this Bill. For some years past there have been firms, mainly the bigger ones, that have been granting three weeks annual leave to their employees. Usually there is a strong trade union in such firms, whereas in the smaller firms there may be no trade union so that employees are not in a sufficiently strong position to bargain for better conditions. This Bill is desirable because it will ensure that people working in such firms will have legal entitlement to a three weeks holiday period. The question of job satisfaction arises in this context. It is important that everybody engaged in industry should have absolute job satisfaction, that they be alert mentally and physically in carrying out their duties and that at all times they consider their work as being very important to the country as a whole.

I would make a plea here for people engaged in the hotel business and in respect of whom it is difficult to ensure that proper holidays are granted because they must work when other people are free to take holidays. The Minister should ensure that the interests of these people are protected fully. Some hotel employees work exceptionally long hours, sometimes on seven days a week. Most of them receive overtime pay, but there are some who are not paid for these extra hours. The staffs of bigger hotels are usually trade unions members but this is not the case in respect of the staffs of the smaller establishments. I urge the Minister to ensure that hotel employees are properly looked after and their interests safeguarded. The vast majority of hotel managements appreciate the rights of their employees but there are exceptions and it is to these exceptions that the Minister should particularly direct his attention. Many of the staffs of hotels are young boys and girls between 16 and 18 years of age and they are perhaps not as well able to stand up to dogmatic employers as those with more experience. I urge the Minister to be particularly attentive to the holiday rights of such young workers.

Deputy Dowling touched on a point which is analogous to one raised by the Minister in his speech—the number of holidays a worker is qualified for if he leaves employment or if he is dismissed. On a number of occasions I have come across people who have left employment but who have not been given the holiday pay to which they were entitled. I am not clear from reading the Bill what their entitlement is in this respect and I should be grateful to the Minister to clarify the position when he is replying. People sometimes leave employment or are dismissed after four or five months and Deputies and Senators would be glad to be able to give precise replies when they are questioned on this matter. When a person leaves employment he may be out of work for a period and the holiday pay to which he is legally entitled could be of immense importance to him, his wife and family. The three weeks holiday provision is very welcome and so is the provision about an extra day off each year. The Minister mentioned New Year's Day.

I must emphasise that no decision has been made in that respect.

Personally I would favour a day at some other time of the year. Around the New Year there are numerous holidays and I suggest that some day between October and Christmas would be more welcome: that is a period when there are not any public holidays. The Minister said these are matters for negotiation between workers' representatives and employers. However, it is good to see this Bill before the House.

I also welcome the Bill. I am sure both employers and trade unions have been fully consulted and that their advice is to a great extent reflected in the Bill. Therefore, it is not for us seriously to question particular provisions in the Bill. As the Minister has stated, the provisions in this Bill have been already got by trade union negotiations and the vast majority of workers have been enjoying the three weeks annual leave for a number of years. This Bill became necessary particularly to cover sections of workers who had not been able to get such benefits. For that reason alone it is very welcome because it helps workers who could not themselves enforce their rights through trade unions. They could only be looked after by legislation. This was their only way to get their entitlements in regard to holidays.

One point I particularly welcome in the Bill is that, if a worker becomes or is ill during any day of his annual leave, provided he supplies a medical certificate, that day is not included in his annual leave. In future I should like to see legislation that would qualify workers who have had long service in a particular employment and who may be ill for many months of the year for this entitlement to holidays. As they stand, the provisions of the Bill are good.

One particular advantage in the Bill is the automatic entitlement to a public holiday to a person who might start in a job on a Monday morning. He will be entitled to a full week's pay if there is a public holiday on a Tuesday or a Wednesday of that first week. That is most desirable and necessary. The Minister mentioned one extra holiday. In that respect I should like to put forward the idea that this additional day be attached to a weekend, in other words, that it be a Friday or a Monday. I do not know what the continental position is, whether such public holidays come at weekends or in a haphazard way. Some of the public holidays mentioned in the Bill are liable to occur in mid-week and the benefits to some extent are lost to the workers. Church holydays, whose benefits some workers enjoy, often fall mid-week and as a result the full benefit is sometimes lost. In contemplating additional public holidays that may be given over the next few years this should be borne in mind. The question of attaching them to existing days or to weekends, the Friday or the Monday, should be considered because the vast majority of workers work from Monday to Friday. Because of this it would be more beneficial and advantageous to have the additional holidays either at the beginning or at the end of that five-day cycle.

Under the 1961 Act a worker who works a public holiday receives payment at the rate of twice a day's pay. The usual practice is that if a worker works the public holiday he gets double time on top of the holiday. In other words, he receives a day's pay if he does not work the holiday and if he works he receives his day's pay plus double time. In effect he has three days' pay for the one day's work. That is a practice that is now quite common and the normal procedure. I would like to have the Minister's comment on this.

In this legislation that part of the 1961 Act is continued. The Minister might look at this now or at least in the not too distant future. I should like to pay tribute to the inspectors in the Minister's Department who have been investigating the complaints under the 1961 Act. They have performed well their duties, which at times are very difficult because of the type of employers they have to approach. Such employers are usually the most difficult people, the most difficult employers and the most troublesome. Because of this the task of the inspectors has not been an easy one.

Because of the way in which the employment year went under the 1961 Act it was difficult for even an inspector of the Department to come to grips in determining entitlement in respect of individual workers. The arrangement whereby the 1st April will now be the date for everyone irrespective of when they start in a job if it does nothing else will facilitate the pursuit of defaulting employers under this Act. It will also make the job of detecting those in default a lot easier.

Under this Act a worker who commences work on the 1st April or at any time will not be entitled to the full entitlements until the following summer 12 months. I cannot see any way out of this difficulty nor am I in a position to make any suggestions as to how the Minister might overcome this, because most workers prefer to get the bulk of their annual holidays in the summertime due to family commitments and school holidays.

The date of their first year of employment will make it difficult for them to get the full holidays during that year. They will have to wait until the following year. I agree, however, that this will seldom occur, perhaps, only once in a lifetime. In welcoming this Bill I should like to say that the only regret I have about it is that it was not law some years ago.

I should like to thank the Deputies for granting my request that the Bill should have a speedy passage through the House.

Deputy Dowling asked about section 12, which refers to the fact that reward for work done by an employee during annual leave shall be irrecoverable. That section is in the 1961 Act. It is there to discourage employees from the temptation of working during their annual leave. It states simply that the employee who works during that period will be unable at law to call in legal sanction to recover any moneys owed to him during that period. It is necessary to have such a provision if we wish to comply with the ILO Convention, I believe it is No. 132. The worker who insists on working during his annual leave does so at his peril if there is any dispute about the salaries which he earns during that period. We think it is important that everybody working in the country should take this period of holiday.

Deputy Dowling mentioned the question of suspension of workers and this being a growing practice. I do not know if it is true to say that it is a growing practice but I will have a look at that situation. It would not obtain for trade unionists for the most part, but what I would be anxious to avoid in legislation of this kind is entering into an area of dispute about whether a suspension was justified or not.

It would be difficult to see how we could get legislation of the kind that would cover the eventuality Deputy Dowling felt would give rise to dispute in which people would find themselves deprived of their entitlements. However, I will have a look at it in its later passages to see if there is anything that can be done subject to the difficulties which I have mentioned.

Deputy Enright asked if an employee worked less than that statutory period what he would be entitled to. There is a provision in this Bill for proportionate leave entitlement for an employee working less that 1,600 hours where he does not cease or terminate the employment contract. Under the Bill one can break down proportionately what an employee would be entitled to. If an employee works six or seven months during the leave year and he averages over 120 hours per month he gets 1¼ days for each month. For over a six-month period an employee would receive 7½ days; for eight such months he would receive ten days. In this legislation we provide for him to be able to get proportionately what he is entitled to subject to those qualifications.

Deputy Enright commented on what should be the extra public holiday. As I remarked when introducing the Bill, we must advance on a phased basis of progression to something nearer what is the average now existing in the EEC countries. While no formal decision has been made on the actual date of the extra holiday which the Government has agreed to in principle, I agree with Deputy Enright, and with other speakers, that such a holiday would be of most benefit if it was situated nearer a weekend. That would be a time when people would appreciate the extra day. The extra holiday in Britain will be on 1st January, but I think there is much weight in the argument that an autumn holiday might be of greater benefit to people in the long gap between annual holidays and the Christmas season. I may be able to say more on this after further discussions with unions and employers.

May I suggest the day after the All-Ireland Final?

That would depend on who won. I think the Deputy also mentioned holidays near weekends; of course, he assumes that Kilkenny will be permanently in the All-Ireland final. With regard to the matter of sickness of older workers, the question of their annual leave entitlement not being endangered is incorporated now and it is an improvement on the previous position.

Deputy Pattison also mentioned the matter of three days' pay for a worked bank holiday. This is not a universal practice; perhaps it may be only where the transport union in Kilkenny is effective. At any rate, this practice does not obtain everywhere, although it applies in some places.

The purpose of this legislation is to extend what is a good employment practice throughout industry, to extend the benefits that have been gained by the collective strength of trade unions in their negotiations with employers. It is to ensure that the benefits are extended to workers who are in weak bargaining situations—for instance workers in small jobs, in isolated or in service jobs where union organisation is not strong and where employees have not been able to get benefits which are general or have been widespread throughout industry. I shall certainly look at that situation in as helpful a way as I can see if we can get an amendment of that kind. If Deputies have any further amendments of this kind which might improve this legislation I shall be ready to listen to them.

With regard to the person who died while in service, what is the entitlement to annual leave?

There is no provision in this legislation. In fact, I do not know if it would be appropriate to this Bill.

It is in relation to annual leave.

It is dealt with in the same way as wages due.

Apparently there is no provision in any of the Acts to pay the money and for many years the Dublin Corporation did not pay.

I accept what the Deputy has said but I do not know if it would conveniently come under this legislation.

Some local authorities have paid and are paying.

Yes, as a good practive. However, while it may be a good industrial relations practice, it may not be possible to enshrine it at all times in on-going legislation. The case of the suspension mentioned by the Deputy is a case in point: it may not be possible to put in a guarantee of holiday entitlement for the person who is suspended. However, I will look into the question raised by the Deputy and will communicate with him.

I am informed by the corporation that the Department of Labour indicated some years ago that legislation would be enacted where provision would be made for this payment. The corporation are paying on that basis at the moment.

I will have a look at my predecessor's file.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 6th November, 1973.
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