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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 7 May 1974

Vol. 272 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Vote 9: Public Works and Buildings.

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £14,981,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the period commencing on the 1st day of April, 1974, and ending on the 31st day of December, 1974, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of Public Works; for expenditure in respect of public buildings; for the maintenance of certain parks and public works; for the execution and maintenance of drainage and other engineering works; for expenditure arising from damage to the property of External Governments; and for payment of a grant-in-aid.

This nine months' Estimate has been derived from a figure of £20,608,000 for the 12-month period 1st April, 1974, to 31st March 1975, which estimate represents an increase of £2,794,000 on the total amount voted for Public Works and Buildings in 1973-74.

As Deputies are aware, the nine month accounting period arises following the enactment of the Exchequer and Local Financial Years Act, 1974, which provides for a change in the financial year to a calendar year basis from 1st January, 1975, and for the operation of a transitional financial "year" consisting of the nine month period from 1st April, 1974, to 31st December, 1974.

I should mention at the outset that the cost of the 15th round national pay agreement is not included in the sum of £14,981,000 now being sought, because the national pay agreement, 1974, was not finalised in time to enable its cost to be distributed over the individual departmental estimates, including this one. General provision for the cost of the 15th round is made in the Estimate for Vote 50 which will be presented by the Minister for the Public Service. Deputies will find an explanatory note on this subject at the back of the title page of the abridged version of the Book of Estimates. I will now comment on the various subheads that make up the Estimate for Vote 9.

Subheads A, B and C cover the administrative expenses of the Office of Public Works.

The provision under subhead D covers purchases of sites and premises for various Government services including the acquisition of the fee simple of some existing leasehold properties. The subhead provides also for the purchase of land required for the national monuments service and far national parks and amenity areas. I might mention in connection with the former that the arbitration proceedings to determine the amount to be paid in the case of the lands at Tara, County Meath, are expected to be completed in the near future.

As I informed the House recently in reply to a question on this subject, the National Parks and Monuments Branch of my office is at present studying certain areas of outstanding natural beauty and scientific interest to see if they would be suitable for the establishment of national parks. A few such areas have been accepted as meeting the necessary criteria for inclusion in a system of national parks.

I am now happy to announce the successful conclusion of negotiations for the acquisition by the Commissioners from the owner, Mr. H.P. McIlhenny, of the Glenveagh Estate, County Donegal. This magnificent estate, containing about 25,000 acres of great natural beauty with a garden area which has, under Mr. McIlhenny's direction, become one of the finest gardens in this country, will be preserved and maintained in perpetuity as a national park for the use, enjoyment and the recreation of all our people.

The commissioners have no compulsory powers for the acquisition of properties for national park purposes. This transaction would not have been possible, therefore, without the interest and goodwill of Mr. McIlhenny. Furthermore, I must add that a very generous gesture by him in the course of the negotiations constitutes a considerable contribution to the National Park project.

Mr. McIlhenny's home is in Rittenhouse Square, Philadelphia, but as his forbears were from Ireland it is not surprising that he should have purchased Glenveagh Estate in the 1930s as a summer base. On graduating from Harvard University he joined the staff of the Museum of Philadelphia where he was to become Curator of Decorative Arts and Vice-President. His personal collection of paintings, drawings and sculpture is of outstanding quality and importance.

As well as being a patron of the Arts, Mr. McIlhenny is famous as a host not only in Philadelphia but also at Glenveagh Castle where it has been his practice to entertain his many friends during his vacations there.

His generous gesture in relation to the national park project is in the best tradition of our Irish-American people and will earn the gratitude of all those who will enjoy the beauty and tranquility of this magnificent area in the years to come.

Announcements will be made from time to time as to the extent to which the area will be available to the public.

Negotiations have been opened for the acquisition of other areas of outstanding quality. I do not wish to expand on this matter while negotiations are still taking place but I hope that I will be able to report further progress by this time next year.

I know from the interest which Deputies and the general public have shown in the subject of national parks in recent times that they regard expenditure on such amenities as money well spent. There has been a growing appreciation of the important contribution which national parks can make to the cultural, educational, social and economic well-being of a people. The creation of national parks has been assuming a new urgency in the face of social changes and industrial developments which threaten even the most unspoiled areas which hitherto appeared inviolable.

As far back as February, 1970, the Council of Europe urged governments to "identify and safeguard areas especially suited for national parks, for animal and plant reserves, and sites of scientific, historic, educational and scenic interest". Likewise the first resolution passed at the Second World Conference on National Parks held in the United States in September, 1972, called upon all governments to "widen the coverage of their protected areas so as to ensure that adequate and representative samples of natural biomes and ecosystems throughout the world are conserved in a co-ordinated system of national parks and related protected areas and that the selection and setting aside of such areas should be considered as an essential element in regional and national land-use planning".

The creation of a comprehensive national park system for Ireland will take some years to accomplish but the programme will be pursued as vigorously as financial and manpower resources allow. I believe that I will have the support of all sides of the House and of the public at large in this objective.

I will have more to say on the running of existing national parks under subheads E and F1.

A list of the works for which provision is made under subhead E has been supplied to Deputies. I will refer briefly to the more significant items.

Under item 1 (3) proposals to provide additional accommodation for the Houses and staff of the Oireachtas are being considered and provision is made for the execution of a suitable scheme.

Under item 2, the accommodation at ground floor and basement levels under the State Apartments at present occupied by the Stamping Branch of the Revenue Commissioners will be vacated shortly and it is proposed to utilise it as ancillary accommodation for the State Apartments. Considerable preparatory work will be involved, and it will be some time before proposals are worked out.

Items 3 to 44, accounting for a total provision of £1,193,000 fall under the generic heading of "Finance". Provision is made for the final stages of the building works for the Public Service and Revenue computers, the Stamping Branch and provincial offices at Drogheda, Tralee and Letterkenny. Projects in progress or in planning include Monaghan Customs Road station, printing buildings for the Ordnance Survey, new offices and fitting out of rented offices for Government staffs in Dublin, provincial offices at Mullingar, Roscommon and Waterford, the restoration of Scoil Éanna, Stage II, and the restoration of the Royal Hospital, Kilmainham, Stage II.

Stage 1 of the computer building at Inchicore is completed and the computer is in full operation. Planning for Stage II to provide office accommodation for the staff directly associated with the computer system is proceeding.

The work at the new Stamping Branch has been completed and the top floor is now occupied. Occupation of the other floors is proceeding in stages.

The main work in connection with the computer at Kilmainham for Revenue collection work is completed and the computer is in operation.

Planning for the new Customs Road Station at Monaghan is well advanced and it is expected that the work of erection will commence later this year. As Deputies for the area will be aware, the present station because of its location and the increase in motor traffic, can no longer be regarded as safe.

I referred last year to the general problem of office accommodation for Government staffs in Dublin and to the commencement of a programme whereby the State would design and erect its own office buildings. Substantial progress has been made with planning for a number of projects. It is hoped that tenders can be invited this year in respect of the erection of modern offices for the Geological Survey Office, the Meteorological Office, the headquarters of the Garda and the provision of some extra space for the Veterinary College at Ballsbridge.

The erection of the new printing building for the Ordnance Survey is expected to commence shortly.

A new office building at Drogheda, and an extension to the Custom House at Tralee have been completed and a new office building is nearing completion in Letterkenny. New offices for Mullingar, Roscommon and Waterford are being planned.

Planning has been proceeding for the building at Clonskeagh for the Institute of Public Administration and the Department of the Public Service training centre. It is hoped that work will commence next year.

This concerns the restoration of Scoil Éanna, Rathfarnham. Working drawings for Stage II of the restoration work, which will involve the complete internal rehabilitation of the buildings, are completed, and it is hoped to go to tender within the next few months.

Planning for Stage II of the restoration of the Royal Hospital, Kilmainham is in progress but at this point it is not possible to say when work will commence.

Provision is made for adaptation works to the south block of Government Buildings following the transfer of Department of Agriculture and Fisheries staff to the new office building in Kildare Place.

Provision is made for the installation of a standby generator to provide lighting for certain areas in Government Buildings in the event of power failure or cuts.

There is also provision for the continuation of a scheme to improve landing facilities at Clare Island, County Mayo, which is being done in the interests of transport and communication. The scheme consists of widening the pier, raising the level of its deck, providing a sloping quay, a crane, a winch and a boat cradle. It is hoped to complete it next year.

A further provision is for the removal of portion of the structures on the East Pier at Dún Laoghaire which were provided as a temporary measure in 1965, pending the installation of the permanent car ferry terminal at St. Michael's Wharf. The work will be done in conjunction with proposed alterations at the Mail Boat pier covered by the next item.

I explained last year that British Rail were introducing a new type of ship at Dún Laoghaire, a multi-purpose ship which can accommodate both passengers with cars and without and that this would entail the construction of a ramp at the Mail Boat pier to unload the cars and a causeway connecting the Mail Boat pier to St. Michael's Wharf. The work did not proceed last year as British Rail ran into difficulties with their end of the work at Holyhead. These difficulties have now been resolved and a contract has been placed for the works at Dún Laoghaire. It is expected that they will be completed early in 1975.

A total provision of £14,000 is being made for various improvements in the Bourne Vincent Memorial Park. Work which was begun on the modernisation of the park workshops last year has been progressing satisfactorily and will be continued this year. Work is also continuing on the provision of public toilets and the construction of a new road for jaunting cars which will add considerably to the amenity value of the park.

The present water supply and sewage disposal systems at Muckross House are unsatisfactory. Plans are being prepared to improve the systems and actual work will, I hope, commence this year.

After many frustrations a contract was finally placed for the restoration of the picture gallery wing of Kilkenny Castle, and work on the site began in October, 1973. The job is progressing satisfactorily and, when it is completed, the fine picture gallery will have been restored to its former splendour.

Last year, I gave the House some particulars regarding the proposed golf course at the Phoenix Park extension along the banks of the River Liffey, and I had hoped that this year I could report substantial progress. Unfortunately, little progress has been made on the project during the past year. The layout plan for the course had been settled and contract documents were well in hand when revised road widening plans were received from Dublin Corporation. If these proposals are carried through in their present form, a large area of the golf course site will be lost, and this will mean that the whole project will have to be reappraised. It may, therefore, be necessary to settle for something less than a full 18-hole course. At this stage, I can give the House no indication as to the likely outcome. Discussions have already been held with the corporation and further discussions will be necessary before a final scheme can be agreed.

The River Shannon cruiseway continues to increase in importance as a tourism asset, and the various improvement works proposed will help to meet the continuing demand for facilities there. Work on the new jetty at Hodson's Bay and the extension of the pier at Mountshannon will be continued this year. My office has joined with Bord Fáilte in commissioning a comprehensive study of the waterway by a firm of planning consultants. Preliminary reports by the consultants have been most informative, and the study is expected to be completed by the end of the year. The results of this study will, I hope, form the basis of a general development programme for the waterway for a number of years to come.

Provision is being made for new works at a number of national monuments. These consist of visitor centres and new or improved accommodation for depots for the servicing of the monuments.

Work is in progress on the provision of visitor centres at Dunmore Cave, County Kilkenny, and at the Rock of Cashel, County Tipperary, and it is hoped that both will be completed by 1975.

A provision is also included for a visitor centre at Clonmacnoise and a national monuments depot at Killarney.

The sum of £368,000 is being provided for works for the Department of Justice, mainly for the erection of new Garda stations, the improvement of existing stations and for the erection of temporary courts in Dublin.

The improvements to the Garda Technical Bureau at St. John's Road are well advanced and should be completed by the end of the year.

Provision is made for accommodation for the Garda research and planning unit and for improvements to the commissioner's office. It is expected that this work will be completed within the current year.

Provision is included for works at present in progress on new stations or major improvements at some 15 centres. Tenders are about to be invited for a new central headquarters in Limerick, for new district headquarters in Ballyshannon and for smaller stations at three other centres. Planning has reached an advanced stage in 17 other cases and it is hoped that tenders can be invited by the end of the year.

Last year I mentioned the pressing need for additional accommodation for the courts. Progress here has been slowed down by the emergence of new planning proposals for the area in the vicinity of the courts, but it is hoped to proceed at least with the plans for the temporary courts this year.

Work commenced recently and is progressing satisfactorily on the erection of new office buildings for the Department of Education at Athlone. The contract is due for completion in the latter half of 1975.

The grant expenditure on the building and improvement of primary schools last year was approximately £6,600,000 which represented an average expenditure of approximately £550,000 per month, the highest on record. The amount included for school building and improvement in the estimate for the current period of nine months is £5,030,000 and this will enable the monthly expenditure rate of last year to be maintained. A large proportion of the money will again be spent on the erection of schools in newly developing areas of towns and cities.

The provision of special schools for physically and mentally handicapped children is continuing. Works were completed last year on six new schools. Works are at present in progress in 14 such schools and 11 projects are at various stages of preparation.

The work on the erection of the new offices at Castlebar for the Department of Lands is proceeding and the contract is due for completion early in 1975.

The provisions for fitting out the new office block in Kildare Place and for buildings for research, training and advisory services for the Department of Agriculture amount to £297,000. The items include a regional veterinary research laboratory at Limerick, a milking parlour, a farm manager's residence and an incinerator at Abbotstown, research facilities at Thorndale, a district veterinary office at Carlow, and an extension to the quarantine station at Spike Island, County Cork. Work at the new office block at Kildare Place is virtually completed and occupation of the building is proceeding in stages. It is expected that occupation will be completed during the summer.

The new meteorological station at Mullingar is virtually completed.

A sum of £312,000 is included for works for the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. The erection of new post offices at Dungarvan and Listowel is in progress and it is expected that a tender for a new post office at Donegal will be accepted shortly. Planning of new post offices for Clonmel, Longford, Mullingar and Shannon and of modernisation schemes for post offices at other provincial centres is proceeding. The architectural competition held for the design of the new post office in Tipperary was very successful and the winning design will, I feel sure, result in a building which can justly take its place as an important feature of the town which it will serve. Contracts have been placed for the erection of a new sorting office at Baldoyle, County Dublin and for the installation of a ventilation system in the Central Sorting Office, Dublin.

In addition to the works covered by this Estimate, the Office of Public Works will carry out for the Department of Posts and Telegraphs works in connection with the telephone services estimated to cost about £1,200,000 which will be met from the Telephone Capital Account. The greater part of subhead F.1 is spent on normal day-to-day maintenance of Government offices, post office buildings, Garda Síochána stations, employment exchanges, social welfare offices and agricultural institutions. The balance covers maintenance of this country's diplomatic missions abroad; of the three State harbours at Dún Laoghaire, Howth and Dunmore East; and of the river Shannon navigation and of the various national parks.

These parks, apart from affording opportunities for open air recreation and leisure, serve as very solid links with our historic past. Last year I referred to the historic island of Innisfallen which had been presented to the nation by Mr. John McShain and which now forms part of the Killarney National Park, and, of course, the park also contains the well-preserved ruins of Muckross Abbey. Derrynane National Historic Park serves as a memorial to one of our most successful parliamentarians, the great Liberator, Daniel O'Connell. Kilkenny Castle Park mirrors the history of that area over a long period going back to the time of Strongbow and brings to mind the influence of the Normans. More recent history is represented by St. Enda's Park, Rathfarnham, where Patrick Pearse established his Irish-speaking school. I mention these points because many people do not realise that our parks as well as our monuments, are important elements in our historic heritage.

We get an ever-increasing number of requests from schools and from visitors from abroad for information about our parks and we have decided to produce a series of attractive leaflets for all our parks which we hope will meet this demand.

The other important function which our parks can fulfil is in the field of environmental education. National parks offer a great opportunity for the study of natural communities and ecosystems and discussions are proceeding between the National Parks and Monuments Branch and the Department of Education regarding the provision of facilities for field studies in the parks. Even in city parks such as St. Stephen's Green and Phoenix Park there is scope for environmental education programmes especially for younger students. This is being actively examined.

Before leaving the subject of parks I should like to refer to a matter which has been the subject of some publicity in recent months and this is the question of deer conservation. Three species of deer exist in Ireland—Red deer, Japanese Sika deer, and Fallow deer and all three species are to be found in parks under the care of the commissioners. There is a herd of about 250 Fallow deer in the Phoenix Park while the other two species can be seen in the national park at Killarney. The Killarney Red deer are commonly accepted as being the last survivors of the native stock which once flourished in Ireland. The most recent count put their numbers at about 200. Although the indications are that their numbers have been increasing in recent years this is still a critically low level for our largest native mammal and the National Parks and Monuments Branch appreciate the special responsibility they bear, along with other landowners in the Killarney region, to conserve them and improve their prospects of survival. A scientific research project has been in progress for the past few years, under the commissioners' sponsorship, into the state of the herd, their feeding habits and behaviour. The results of this project will be available shortly and should help in the formulation of a sound management policy for the Red deer.

The Sika deer were introduced into Ireland in the last century and are now far more numerous than the Red deer although estimates of their numbers vary widely. In recent years they have been coming under criticism from various quarters for the alleged damage they cause to established woodlands, ornamental trees and shrubs and young seedlings. More recently it has been suggested that hybridisation might occur between the Red and Sika deer as has happened in County Wicklow. Some people have suggested that because of these criticisms the Sika deer should be drastically reduced in numbers or even totally eliminated. The publicity which these suggestions have received has, I think, contributed to the recent increase in deer poaching at Killarney.

There is a mistaken feeling that no law exists to protect the deer at Killarney. Let me clear up this point once and for all. Under the park bye-laws no person shall "ill-treat, worry or disturb any deer or other animal in the Park", "discharge any firearm", or "enter upon any part of the Park while carrying or being in possession of any firearms except with the permission in writing of the Commissioners." The commissioners intend to enforce these bye-laws rigidly and are currently tightening up their wardening and patrol service.

As to the future of the Sika deer, a sound management policy must be scientifically based. As in the case of the Red deer, a scientific research project has been in progress for the past four years—and is still proceeding—into the Sika deer. The national Parks and Monuments Branch is also supporting research into the problem of natural regeneration in the Killarney oakwoods and the relationships between this and the populations of deer and other animals. When the results of the various research projects become available we will be in a better position to decide on a management policy for the deer.

Subhead F2 provides for the supply of replacement furniture and of additional items required for existing State buildings. The provision of £273,000 sought is, pro rata, approximately the same as the final provision for 1973-74. Furniture for new buildings is paid for out of subhead E.

As in previous years subhead F3 which provides for rents shows an increase due to the leasing of additional office accommodation for expanding staffs of various Departments and to increases in rents. Most of the extra accommodation is required by the Revenue Commissioners, the Civil Service Commission and the Department of Social Welfare.

Subhead F4 bears the cost of fuel and light for Government offices. Increases in the cost of these commodities together with the demand for higher standards in new and existing accommodation account for the provision needed under this subhead.

Subhead F5 is required to meet the cost of compensation, etc. arising from damage to the property of external governments. By far the greater part of this provision will be expended on the former British Embassy office at Merrion Square, damaged in February 1972. This property has been acquired by the Electricity Supply Board and they are carrying out the restoration on behalf of the Office of Public Works. A small sum will be required to make good damage caused to the premises of the Spanish Cultural Institute on 2nd March, 1974.

Subhead F6 is required to meet the balance of expenditure by the Office of Public Works on repairs to Drogheda Courthouse. The Minister for Justice, acting under section 6 of the Courthouses (Provision and Maintenance Act, 1935, directed the Commissioners of Public Works to put the accommodation at this courthouse into proper order. The work is virtually completed. The costs and expenses incurred by the commissioners on the work are, under the Act referred to, recoverable from Louth County Council.

The G subheads provide for expenditure in connection with the arterial drainage programme which is being carried out under the Arterial Drainage Act, 1945.

Subhead G1 provides for the carrying out of hydrometric studies and of comprehensive drainage surveys which are a necessary preliminary to the preparation of arterial drainage schemes. The amount which is being requested for this subhead for the nine-month period is £52,000. On a 12-month basis the amount needed would have been £61,200 compared with a provision of £40,500 in 1973-74. Most of the provision is needed to continue hydrometric investigations which, incidentally, provide valuable information in regard to the country's water resources. The amount included for catchment surveys is £2,000.

The report of the cost/benefit study, to which I referred last year, will, I understand, be available shortly. Meanwhile a start has been made on a study of the Corrib-Mask-Robe catchment area.

Subhead G2 provides for drainage works in progress. The sum of £1,035,000 is being requested for the period 1st April, 1974, to 31st December, 1974. For a full year the estimated expenditure would be £1,374,500 compared with £1,026,000 for 1973-74. The schemes in progress at present are the Boyne and the Maigue, both of which are major schemes. The bigger of the two, the Boyne, started in 1969 and for some years has been operating at more or less maximum level.

Variations in expenditure on the Boyne at this stage are largely attributable to increases in wages and other costs. The Maigue is in the process of build-up from its start in November, 1973, so the provision for it is considerably higher than for 1973-74.

Subhead G3, for which £565,000 is being requested, provides for the maintenance of completed drainage schemes and embankment works. On the basis of a full year the amount needed would have been £703,400 as compared with a provision of £643,200 in 1973-74. The cost of this work is recovered from the county councils.

I am asking for £413,000 for subhead H for the purchase and maintenance of engineering plant and machinery, the purchase of stores, and the payment of wages to the workshop staffs. This figure is approximately the same as the pro rata figure for 1973-74.

Subhead I bears the cost of coast protection works schemes at Rossnowlagh, County Donegal and Youghal, County Cork, have recently been completed. A scheme has been prepared for Enniscrone, County Sligo and it is hoped that work will commence there before the end of the year. Preliminary examinations under the Coast Protection Act, 1963 have been carried out at Ballyvoile, County Waterford, and at the Maharees, County Kerry but the proposals are not expected to be sufficiently developed to give rise to expenditure this year. The subhead also covers the maintenance of completed schemes, four in all, though the cost of this is recovered from the county councils involved and is taken in as appropriations-in-aid.

I am aware, from the large number of inquiries I receive, that Deputies would wish to secure greater progress on coast protection generally. I have explained to Deputies who have been concerned about remedying storm damage, that the Office of Public Works cannot carry out such work and may undertake only protection work which fulfils the conditions of the Act. The procedures required under the Act are protracted and the design of a scheme involves prolonged and detailed study with a high degree of specialised engineering skills. The period between the receipt of an application from local authority and the commencement of actual work could run into some years, and when I point out that there are about 40 proposals submitted by local authorities under the Act awaiting attention, the extent of the problem will be understood.

Under subhead J1 provision is made for the conservation, maintenance and presentation of national monuments and for archaeologic exploration. A total sum of £371,000 is being provided for the nine months to 31st December, 1974 and I am sure Deputies welcome the increased pro rata provision for this service.

The fact that this small country of ours is endowed with scenery which is internationally famous for its remarkable beauty and variety and that we have such a number of great archaeological treasures is no credit to us and is not something we can boast of. The credit which we will be entitled to claim will be for the success of our efforts to protect this wonderful heritage, of which we are but the current caretakers, and to pass it on intact for the enjoyment and inspiration of future generations.

We all agree on the vital and urgent need to protect and preserve our heritage. There is no problem of having to convert people to this view but notwithstanding this our natural and cultural heritage is being damaged or destroyed at a rate unparalleled at any other time of our history.

The problem is one of priorities and resources. This cannot be left to a few well-intentioned people and private organisations who may seek to influence decisions. I believe it can only be done if the State, local authorities and all of our people are anxious enough and care enough to do something about it and give it their full support. In the end whether an historic site is preserved or bulldozed out of existence is primarily a political matter. It is still too often believed that the preservation of our natural and cultural heritage can be considered only if there are some resources left over. A satisfactory cultural climate and the things of beauty in our life are not superfluous luxuries. They are an essential part of our life.

Our ancient monuments are an important part of our heritage, bear witness to our individuality as a nation —more important than ever now when international standardisation is becoming a depressing feature of development—and unlike many other resources they are absolutely irreplaceable. They have been and are a source of pride, education and inspiration to our people, bring economic benefit as, properly preserved and presented, they are a great attraction to visitors and are a very valuable source of information to archaeologists and historians who are trying by research and excavation to piece together the hidden history of man's occupation of this island over a period of almost 7,000 years.

An unusual characteristic of the Irish national heritage considered as a whole is its poverty in pictorial matter of any kind in any medium. Documentation in the form of pictures or sculptures is the most fruitful source of knowledge for the social historian in his search for information about any aspect of the lives of people at any time in the past, for example, houses, dress, ornaments, domestic furnishings and equipment, agricultural implements, trades and occupations, hunting, boats, weapons, religious and ritual festivals, customs, games and pastimes, musical instruments and many other aspects of life. The position in regard to such pictorial records in Ireland could scarcely be worse.

From the whole of the prehistoric period there is virtually nothing which can be identified as the recognisable representation of anything animate or inanimate and this dearth of pictorial records continues through succeeding centuries almost to the 19th.

Ireland lacks wholly or in great part the records which are available to the historian and research worker in other European countries from illuminated manuscripts, sculptures, wall paintings, easel pictures, tapestries, woodcuts and engravings as well as the pictorial matter frequently employed in the decoration of furniture, ceramics, metal work, jewellery and other kinds of objects.

Only one alternative source of information remains for the historian here, the physical records represented by our monuments and the artefacts which are to be found in them following exploration. We must rely on these to an extent unparalleled in other European countries and this gives an added urgency to steps for their preservation. Even the most insignificant-looking monument may on excavation prove to be a fertile site for artefacts and may produce a vital link in our historical documentation.

This year conservation works will be continued at Portumna Castle, Aughnanure Castle and Clontuskert Abbey, County Galway, at King John's Castle, Limerick, at Ferns Castle, County Wexford and at the megalithic tombs at Knowth and Newgrange, County Meath, and on the Casino at Marino, Dublin. A scheme has been started at James Fort, on the opposite side of the bay from Charles Fort at Kinsale, County Cork, where a very large scheme is already in hands. Major works are expected to commence this year at Ross Castle, Killarney, which Mr. John McShain has kindly placed in the guardianship of the commissioners for the purpose.

Smaller schemes are in progress and will continue at, amongst other places, Rathfran Abbey and Turlough Round Tower and Church, both in County Mayo, at Donegal Abbey, at Fenagh Churches in County Leitrim, at Inishmurray Island, County Sligo and at Kilcooly Abbey, County Tipperary. It is also proposed to complete the major scheme at Caher Castle, County Tipperary, by the execution of necessary repairs to the walls of the outer bawn, these having now been kindly placed in the guardianship of the commissioners by the owner, Mrs. Kenny, to whom I wish publicly to convey sincere appreciation and thanks.

Provision is as usual being made for archaeological excavations. Last year excavations were undertaken at 27 sites. Eight excavations were carried out at national monument sites as a preliminary to conservation works. Sixteen excavations were financed by grants on the recommendation of the Royal Irish Academy.

The archaeological survey will continue this year in Counties Westmeath, Longford and Cavan.

Subhead J2 provides for a further grant-in-aid of the same pro rata amount as last year, towards the cost of the restoration of Holycross Abbey, County Tipperary, under the relevant Act. The cost of the restoration work itself is being recouped by the Archdiocese of Cashel, the cost of conservation work to the fabric of the monument only being borne finally by the State. The project is one of the major items selected as Ireland's contribution for European Architectural Heritage Year, 1975, and it is expected to be completed in that year.

I have endeavoured in my statement to touch on the more important, and interesting of the activities of the Office of Public Works. These activities are very varied in character and extend into every county. I expect that Deputies' comments on this Estimate will be as varied and will be up to their usual high standard.

I should like, first of all, to thank the Parliamentary Secretary for his kindness to me since I became shadow Parliamentary Secretary last July. All of us are aware that the activities of the Office of Public Works cover such a wide and varied field that it is difficult to cover all aspects in the relatively short time available to us here. However there are some brief comments I should like to make on certain aspects.

Subheads A, B and C cover expenses involved in administration, travelling and so on. There is not much that can be said on these except that, on occasion, one wonders if any part of these expenses are duplicated in other Departments. Over £5 million, one-third of the actual money provided in the Estimate, is for new schools and repairs to existing schools. As far as I am aware, all those involved in the provision of new schools and the repair and improvement of existing schools employ their own engineering staff and architects. Naturally they consult with the Department of Education as well as the Office of Public Works. However I suggest that there must be some unnecessary duplication somewhere. There must be officials of the same levels involved in both the Office of Public Works and the Department of Education. If I am wrong in this the Parliamentary Secretary will correct me when he comes to reply.

Under subhead D, provision of £247,000 is made for the purchase of sites and buildings. I welcome what the Parliamentary Secretary said in relation to the establishment of more national parks and, at this stage, I should like to add my sincere thanks to Mr. McElhinny for his very generous gesture. I hope the areas being examined are spread fairly well throughout the country so that the entire population will be in a position to utilise such facilities more convenient to them. I look forward to the Parliamentary Secretary telling us more about these locations. Are sufficient moneys, I wonder, being provided? Looking at the Estimate for 1972-73 one sees that the amount under this subhead amounted to £995,000. Possibly there was some large sum included in that particular year for the provision of fairly expensive premises or buildings at home or abroad.

This level of expenditure was reached in 1972-73 and it should be maintained or increased if possible. Worthwhile work can be done under this heading. Much more money will be necessary if we are serious about taking positive action with regard to the acquisition of land for national parks.

The Parliamentary Secretary has stated there are proposals to provide additional accommodation for the Houses and staff of the Oireachtas and that provision is being made for the execution of a suitable scheme. In this connection it is only fair to refer to the office accommodation available in this House to Deputies. The space given to the Opposition Deputies is very limited and the facilities available could be improved. Seven Deputies share the office in which I work. It is approximately 15 feet by 20 feet and it is not possible for all of us to work at our correspondence in the office at the one time. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to investigate this problem and to see if anything can be done to improve the position.

A sum of £5,030,000 is being provided for new schools. The demand for schools in developing areas continues to grow. Because of this existing schools that need extra accommodation have to be satisfied with prefabricated accommodation. I am not saying there is anything wrong with prefabricated rooms but in many cases such schools throughout the country should have been rebuilt. We all know that sooner or later this must be done in certain areas. I welcome in particular the progress in the provision of special schools for physically and mentally handicapped children. When these schools are built hostel accommodation should be provided nearby. Frequently the children have to travel long distances and it is important that there should be some accommodation provided for them.

In item 14 there is reference to the general problem of office accommodation for Government staff. I hope the programme whereby the State would design and erect its own office accommodation will be encouraged and pursued. Last year more than £1½ million was spent on rent and rates for such accommodation. I understand the Office of Public Works intend to rent a substantial amount of the new building in Kildare Street. I am not sure if this is so, and I am open to correction on this point, but if this is the case one can see the necessity for pursuing our attitude towards the State providing its own office accommodation. Considering the amount of rent being spent for office accommodation, particularly in Dublin, I am sure someone in the Department could work out a more advantageous purchase proposal.

Item 31 states that provision is being made for the installation of a stand-by generator to provide lighting for certain areas in Government Buildings in the event of a power failure or a power cut. This is a welcome development and something that should have been done before. The necessity for such a stand-by generator was evident in the recent past.

Item 27 was not referred to in the Parliamentary Secretary's report. It refers to the State memorial to the late President Kennedy. A sum of £2,000 is provided this year and an amount of £137,000 has been given as the estimated expenditure to 31st March, 1974. Recently I was appointed a member of the Joint Committee for the John F. Kennedy Memorial Concert Hall and I attended one meeting. The long-standing members present were horrified at the Government's suggestion that the project be dropped. I was glad the Minister for Finance accepted my suggestion at the meeting that he should ask the Government to reconsider the matter to see if any alternative way of financing the project could be found. I hope this further review will produce worthwhile results.

I welcome the provision of funds for a depot at the Parkes Castle monument in Sligo, particularly as it is in my constituency. It is necessary for the Office of Public Works to have a depot in the area in order to service their projects in the county.

Items 32, 33 (1) and 33 (2) provide money for the improvement of piers. The Parliamentary Secretary said they were the responsibility of the Office of Public Works but I doubt if all of the piers on which money has been spent are the responsibility of the Office of Public Works. Perhaps some of those projects were more relevant to the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries. Again, we find, perhaps, some unnecessary duplication of effort. On the instructions of the Parliamentary Secretary, officials of the Office of Public Works might be able to offer some suggestions as to how the work carried out by various Departments, in addition to the Office of Public Works, could be brought under one Department whether that would be the Office of Public Works or the Departments concerned.

There is some bad news for Dublin people in the Parliamentary Secretary's speech where he speaks about the provision of a golf course in the Phoenix Park. Not being a golfer, I do not miss the advantages of a golf course but from what one hears in Dublin most golf courses there have more subscribers than they can cater for and there is a necessity for this course. Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary is telling us in what he said that the project is to be dropped. I hope not, because many people in and around Dublin have been living in hope. It is bad news to find that the project will have to be reappraised. Is that another way of saying it is gone? I trust that is not the case.

Mr. Kenny

I shall tell the Deputy later.

I agree totally with what the Parliamentary Secretary said about the tourist value of the Shannon cruiseway. I understand that the Office of Public Works and Bord Fáilte are commissioning a comprehensive study of the waterway by planning consultants. Perhaps the Office of Public Works and Bord Fáilte can take care of the existing waterway but I think the Department of Transport and Power must become involved in relation to waterways generally. One would like to see the day when we would have some waterway link between the Erne and the Shannon. That is a very important aspect of north-south relations and I think the Northern Tourist Board would support such a survey with the Office of Public Works, the Department of Transport and Power and Bord Fáilte. The comprehensive study mentioned here should, I think, be expanded to include what I have mentioned.

There is reference to the expenditure of £368,000 for the Department of Justice. This includes the erection of new Garda stations. The Parliamentary Secretary mentioned one or two areas including Ballyshannon and Limerick. In replying, would he give us the locations of the new Garda stations and of those that are to be improved? The estimate includes £270,000. I have particular concern regarding Garda stations along the Border where the strength of many of them has been increased tenfold. It is only right that we should provide proper accommodation for gardaí on temporary duty in Border areas. I hope that most of the provision for improvement will be for Garda stations along the Border but I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to give the locations when replying. A fairly substantial amount of money is being provided for temporary courts especially when one also sees reference to new permanent courts. Are the new permanent courts to be on the same locations as the temporary courts? We are spending an estimated £250,000 on the temporary courts. Will they continue in use when permanent courts are provided which have not yet been costed and for which a provisional estimate of £3,000 is included for this year?

I note that under section 6 of the Courthouses Act the Minister for Justice directed the Office of Public Works to repair courthouses. In most cases courthouses are the responsibility of local authorities. I think there was reference to Louth. Did they not carry out necessary works and had the Minister for Justice to direct this county council to do so? In many cases throughout the country one sees reports of district justices particularly, complaining of the conditions of courthouses. Is it the case that only when the Minister for Justice directs the Office of Public Works to act they may act and that they have no responsibility other than under his instructions?

I note that money is being provided for the new Government Offices in Athlone and Castlebar. Can the Parliamentary Secretary say when replying—the Minister for Finance could not do so today—how much of the staff of the Departments will be transferred to Athlone and Castlebar and how soon? In the absence of some provision of funds here, can the Parliamentary Secretary tell us whether other locations will be chosen for the transfer of other Departments down the country?

When we talk about the provision of this accommodation for the various Departments we find that in most cases we are looking for office accommodation right in the centre of the city. While Deputies from the country would like to make a case for transferring them down through the rest of the country, many parts of County Dublin would be suitable for such Departments. We should not contribute to the extra traffic hazards involved in having people working in the centre of the one city.

In addition to the sum of £312,000 provided for the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, £1,200,000 is to be spent on the telephone service. We are all delighted to see money being spent on a service which is clearly deteriorating day by day. Perhaps when he is replying the Parliamentary Secretary could tell us exactly what works will be carried out for this £1,200,000.

Subhead F1 caters for national parks. I should like to congratulate the Office of Public Works on the series of leaflets which they intend to produce. This is a very important venture. These informative leaflets will be very useful. I would go so far as to suggest that we should have a bound copy with all the parks included.

I totally agree with what the Parliamentary Secretary said about the preservation of deer. We are all concerned about the preservation of wild life. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to speed up the studies which are taking place, the research projects as they are described, so that a policy can be adopted and pursued vigorously. The Parliamentary Secretary referred to the publicity which he says contributed to the poaching of deer in Killarney. This is very serious and we should try to stamp it out immediately. We would like to have the deer preserved and see them multiply and have them in other areas throughout the country.

Subhead F4 covers fuel, light, water, cleaning materials, and so on. There is provision of £530,000 for the nine months to December, 1974. During the past two weeks the increased costs of fuel, for heating in particular, and of oil, gas and electricity struck me very seriously. This needs to be looked at. I am a member of the Committee of Public Accounts and in July, 1973, we asked for information regarding the type of fuel being used or to be used in buildings recently completed or in course of construction. We were happy to receive from the officers concerned a list of projects completed since 1st August, 1972, and projects in progress at the moment.

One would be amazed, almost horrified, to see that in 96 Government offices of one kind or another throughout the country there are heating installations which use gas, electricity or oil. Only one in Kildare Street in Dublin burns turf. We have to haul the turf from the bogs to Kildare Street in Dublin while we have gas, electricity and oil heating installations in places like County Mayo, County Donegal, County Cavan, and so on. This is a serious matter and it should be closely examined with a view to seeing if these heating installations could be converted to use native fuel, let it be coal or turf. When we consider the enormous increase in the price of fuel in the past three, four or five months, we can anticipate what the costs will be in the future. Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary would have it examined and let us know if anything can be done to keep the cost of heating these places down to an acceptable level.

Subheads G1, 2 and 3 deal with arterial drainage, which is a matter of concern to rural and urban Deputies and to the farming community, in particular I see—and I do not particularly welcome this aspect of the Parliamentary Secretary's speech— that the amount provided for catchment surveys is £2,000. That is a very small amount and I do not think much surveying will be done of a river catchment for £2,000.

In reply to the debate on 27th June last year, as reported at column 1329 of the Official Report, the Parliamentary Secretary said:

Arterial drainage is a very large and important national problem. To deal with it would require a very big input of capital, technical expertise, manpower and time.

I agree wholeheartedly with those words. What money are we providing? I would like to query the sheet which we got today. One would like to have had this sheet some time before contributing to this debate. I do not blame anybody for that. In this sheet we find details of salaries, wages and allowances. The total of subhead A has a small (a) and a note at the bottom which says that in addition to a total sum of £2,921,500 approximately in respect of labour employed directly by the office is included in subheads E—£45,000—and F.1, £1,023,000 and F.2 £55,000; G.1 £35,000, G.2 £760,000 and G.3 £538,000, and so on.

I am raising this point at this time because I am trying to determine exactly how much money, if any, is being spent on actual work in relation to arterial drainage when one takes wages and machinery content out of the figure given. How much actual new work can be done from year to year? Are we just rolling along doing less work which as we see here is costing more money? In another subhead, subhead J.1, we find that at the beginning salaries and wages are not included in these subheads and then when the explanation is given about arterial drainage, subhead G.2, we find that the total estimated expenditure up to 31st March, 1974, on the River Boyne is £3,864,000. There is a little (d) after that indicating that it includes salaries and travelling expenses paid out of subheads A and B and the estimated value of services rendered by engineering plant and machinery and of mechanical stores purchased out of subhead H.

Are salaries and wages a large part of subhead G.2? Are they the main bulk of that subhead? We see the amount spent on drainage at subhead G.2. Is the amount being allocated for arterial drainage here also or does it include an amount from subheads A and B for salaries and wages?

We have £1,035,000 for arterial drainage. Is portion of that a duplication of what is included in subheads A and B for salaries and wages? One must appreciate that the amount of work that has to be done still even on the schemes that are in progress is enormous. The amount of money necessary to complete these schemes is very large. The River Boyne scheme is costing an estimated £12,871,000. We have, including this year's amount, approximately £4.5 million spent on that scheme. That means we have yet to find £8 million or £9 million for the Boyne scheme. If we add to that the estimated cost of the Maigue scheme which is included this year we will have spent £330,000, amounting in all to almost £5 million. The sum of £17 million is required to finance these two schemes which have been started. The figure of £1 million which we are providing, and which must increase because of salary and wage increases, would mean that it would take another 12 years to complete those two schemes alone. We still carry on the charade of trying to keep things moving on other schemes.

Today the Parliamentary Secretary answered a question about a minor catchment at Dunkellin. This is listed as a minor catchment but I do not see any place in the estimate for expenditure on minor catchments. The Parliamentary Secretary did not make any promises about when some work might be done on such a scheme. The scheme is No. 10 on the priority list of minor catchments. I do not see any notes referring to any of these schemes being done. Some of them have been eliminated. No provision is made in the Estimate for moneys to be expended on minor catchments at all. Could we not say that we are not doing any minor catchment schemes or, alternatively, that we will provide money so that some of the work can be done? It is bad enough to have work in progress on two major catchments but the Parliamentary Secretary also refers to the Corrib and Mask study which is starting. If it will take 12 years to complete the two schemes I have already mentioned, I cannot see any hope for any other major catchment schemes being started unless there is a substantial increase in the money available for arterial drainage.

The Parliamentary Secretary, when he was on this side of the House, was very concerned about having sufficient funds available for arterial drainage. I trust that the Parliamentary Secretary will refer in his reply to what I have said. We are all aware of the present very high rate of inflation. Unless substantial amounts of money are made available for arterial drainage it will not be possible to make any inroads into the major schemes. Money is needed too to allow for some progress to be made in the minor schemes. Now that we are in the EEC we must endeavour to ensure that every available pound is put towards the improvement of our agricultural land. In a letter to me on 23rd October, 1973, the Parliamentary Secretary informed me, in reply to a query I had put to him previously, that there was no possibility of our obtaining financial assistance from the EEC for the purpose of arterial drainage. In that letter the Parliamentary Secretary expressed the opinion that the Regional Development Fund was mainly for the purpose of industrial products and that it was doubtful whether assistance for arterial drainage could be obtained under that heading either.

Would the Parliamentary Secretary be prepared to request the Minister concerned to plead in Brussels for additional funds to be made available to us for arterial drainage? Better still, the Parliamentary Secretary might go and plead our cases there himself. The projects are ready and we have the necessary personnel. No one concerned on the official side here can be blamed in any way for the lack of progress but the fact remains that to date sufficient moneys have not been made available for this work. It is discouraging to note the small amount of money that is being made available for arterial drainage out of a total expenditure by the State in a given year of almost £1,000 million. The Parliamentary Secretary has said that this work is an important national problem. I appeal to him to seek funds from every source possible so as to enable the work to proceed.

In his brief, the Parliamentary Secretary tells us that the result of the cost benefit analysis study would be known shortly. Not intending any reflection whatever on the Parliamentary Secretary he made the same prognostication during the debate on the Estimate for his Office on the 27th June, 1973. He said then, as reported at column 1330 of Volume 266 of the Official Report for that day, that the exercise was a very complicated and difficult one and that the report was expected shortly. In the event of money becoming available for this work, it is possible that some of these schemes might be held up because of the non-availability of this report in respect of the catchment areas concerned. At column 1331 of the debate for the date to which I have referred, the Parliamentary Secretary said and I quote:

Few people today are inclined to recall that before the Moy scheme was embarked on in 1960 there were almost 50,000 acres of agricultural land and more than 11,000 acres of bog in County Mayo permanently water-logged and unproductive. Some will remember the prolonged rainfall of seven inches during November, 1968, and again in December, 1969, when two inches of rain fell in the Moy catchment area within 24 hours. The newly designed drainage channels stood the tests successfully. In no part of the catchment where drainage had been carried out was flooding recorded. In pre-drainage conditions flooding would have been considerable and prolonged.

I doubt whether the report of the cost-benefit analysis study would put the position more clearly than the Parliamentary Secretary did in those words. Much more needs to be done in this whole area of arterial drainage.

I turn now to the question of coastal protection, a problem that concerns many Deputies. At paragraph 1334 of the debate to which I have referred the Parliamentary Secretary said and I quote:

I am concerned with the position and as far as it is due to any difficulties which I can influence, for example, shortages of staff or money, I propose to make every effort to improve the situation. However, realising the protracted procedures required by the Act and the fact that this is a very specialised branch of engineering with special emphasis on practical operation and experience, I regret that I cannot promise any great improvement in the short term.

I suppose that was a realistic assessment of the situation but the making available of £64,000 this year for this work will not allow for any major breakthrough. In his address this evening the Parliamentary Secretary spoke of the important schemes that are in his Department awaiting attention. This, in itself, illustrates the necessity for an increase in the Vote for coastal protection. No doubt there are many other schemes which have been awaiting attention for many years and we can assume that the storms this year have resulted in many hundreds more requests for aid from county councils throughout the country. I am aware of many such requests from my own county. The existence in some people's minds of the false impression that the Office of Public Works will repair any little fence along the coastline is only prolonging the day of a solution to these small problems. All county councils should be made aware of what is the position. They must realise that they should take steps in respect of problems in their own areas.

In this context I might mention the work that, hopefully, will begin this year at Enniscrone in Sligo. So far as I am aware the notices in relation to this scheme have not been published yet. I understand that from the date of publication 12 months are allowed during which objections can be raised. I am not positive of these facts but I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to clarify these points in his reply.

Fifty per cent of the cost of the project to be carried out at Enniscrone will be provided by Sligo County Council and local contributions. In the past I understood that up to 70 per cent of the cost of such schemes were provided by the Office of Public Works and the rest by local contributions, county councils, voluntary or otherwise. Will the Parliamentary Secretary tell me in his reply when this project will go ahead?

A deputation consisting of members of the Sligo County Council and from the area of Enniscrone came to the Department three years ago. The Office of Public Works agreed that this project should be moved up on the priority list because an important county road serving the seaside resort was severely damaged by the sea and needed attention urgently. These schemes take too long to get off the ground. From the date of acceptance of the application or when it reaches its place on the priority list, it can take from five to seven years to see a project sometimes even started and definitely before it is concluded. It is not good enough that anybody, the State or private enterprise, should think that such a project should take that length of time from start to finish.

I am disappointed at the amount of money provided for coastal protection. I appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary to do his utmost to ensure that more money will be made available or that he get a separate fund under this subhead and so be in a position to grant-assist local authorities who will carry out these projects. There are many minor schemes which should never be referred to the Office of Public Works because they will never come under the terms of the Act. As soon as such requests are made, the Office of Public Works should be in a position to tell the county councils that they have no responsibility in this regard. They should cut out the nonsense about the 40 proposals which are on their priority list awaiting attention. If they cannot help they should say so and hand back the applications to the county councils. In many instances, these applications are left in the Office of Public Works without getting any attention for years. Every time a county councillor remembers a particular scheme at a meeting another letter is sent to the Office of Public Works. A reply is then sent to the council and nothing happens for another year. Still the sea eats into the man's land, his house or his buildings. We should be clear so far as we can about what type of schemes should be done.

If the Enniscrone scheme were to go ahead the Office of Public Works would not have much change out of the £64,000 allowed for coast erosion. Are there any funds available for coast erosion from the EEC? We should make a special case for coast protection. We are an island and many of our counties are affected by coast erosion, and the allocation of £64,000 will not go far to stop it. If we cannot provide the money ourselves— and it seems we cannot—we should explore every possibility in the EEC for assistance from any fund.

Subhead J1 deals with the maintenance and protection of national monuments and archaeological treasures. I agree that the State should be responsible for the maintenance and protection of these very valuable assets. We should also be concerned about the people on whose lands they are. In a small area outside Sligo there are about 25 important monuments in a square mile. They are all on private property. They are maintained by the Office of Public Works, and full credit to them. In many instances some hardship is caused to these people. I would not for a moment imply that we should lift the protection for these monuments. But I suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary that he should try to fence off small portions of land around these monuments—especially where they are near the roads—so that the public have free access to them. The Office of Public Works should purchase the lands in order to ensure that the public have free access. Hardship can be caused to some landowners because they may wish to have a particular type of crop, grass or animal in a field with such a monument and may not like people coming into that field. It is important that we should try to do something for these people.

In certain areas, especially near the larger towns which have expanded into the areas where these monuments exist, one finds that there are blanket areas in certain development plans which do not permit development of any kind. This in itself is good. Agreement should be worked out with the people concerned—the Office of Public Works, other interested voluntary bodies and the county councils— that these areas should be more clearly defined. I know that in certain counties the planning officers have no alternative but to refuse planning applications for houses on which there are national monuments or archaeological treasures.

Therefore, any request that comes from local authorities for consultation in this respect should be acceded to by the Office of Public Works. I know they have done this in the past, that they have co-operated with people who wanted to have some developments in or convenient to these monuments where there has been this blanket sterilisation of land. We should, therefore, try to define the area for protection close to these monuments more clearly. I know that booklets and pamphlets are to be issued by the Board of Works in relation to national parks and so on and I suggest that the same should apply to monuments and archaeological treasures. This is something we should all like to see. It would be of immense value to the people of Ireland and of great interest to visiting tourists and historians.

There is just one other matter I should like to refer to. It was raised by the Leader of my party last year on this Estimate. At a time when he had no personal interest in it, he asked that a proper residence—I do not suppose I should use "proper" lest it may be interpreted as decrying the residences of former Taoisigh and the present Taoiseach—that a residence for the Taoiseach be provided by the Office of Public Works or some Government agency. In his reply, on 27th June, 1973, at column 1360 of the Official Report, the Parliamentary Secretary said:

Deputy J. Lynch suggested the provision of an official residence for the Taoiseach. I accept that the Deputy made a most reasoned case for the proposal. I have made a note of his arguments and will have them submitted to the appropriate quarter for consideration.

That was almost 12 months ago and I am a little disappointed that there is no reference to it in the Parliamentary Secretary's speech. I am not saying he did not pass it on to the appropriate quarters but, perhaps, in his reply he will give us the up-to-date news on it. It was a very good suggestion in which past Taoisigh and the present Taoiseach would see merit. Because of the daily increasing activities and visitations that the Leader of the country must undertake, it is only right that an up-to-date residence should be provided convenient to the centre of the city.

There is not much more I can say. Many Deputies will contribute and elaborate on many of the details of the Estimate. I am sure the Parliamentary Secretary, as he has done in the past, will reply to the many queries. It is important for me to say, however, that even with the increased moneys being provided year after year, it seems that fewer and fewer new works can be done because of increasing costs of wages and materials. Therefore, any real progress we could make has been diminishing yearly. For that reason I stress the importance of the provision of more funds, and I am sure the first man to agree with me is the Parliamentary Secretary. I hope that in every way he can he will pursue the case and not just get the increases necessary to carry on existing services but to get a realistic approach to the overall problems involved in the work of his office and the amount of money that is needed. I will conclude by paying a tribute to the officers and staff of the Office of Public Works.

The Board of Works cover such a wide field—national monuments, coast erosion, post offices, schools, Garda stations, the Houses of the Oireachtas—that it is impossible in a short time to deal with all the details of the Estimate. I shall deal particularly with some of the problems we have in the west and north west.

The last speaker said all Departments are looking for more funds, and I am sure the Parliamentary Secretary is looking for as much as he can get. It must be remembered that this Estimate shows an increase of 13 per cent over last year—a figure of £20,608,000, an increase of £2,794,000, quite a substantial amount. One of the things I am most pleased about it that work will be completed in Athlone and Castlebar in regard to the decentralisation of the Departments of Education and Lands.

Many people in this country have felt for a long time, and I am one of them, that Dublin is getting more and more over-populated and that we should have more decentralisation to the west, the north-west and the midlands. When we come to Dublin week after week, it takes us longer to get here from the outskirts of the city than it does for us to get to the Dublin outskirts from the furthest point of the country. The necessity to decentralise industry has been appreciated and so should it be seen in regard to Government Departments. Many people have said this cannot be done because it would put a lot more work on our people here in Dublin. Time has proved this to have been wrong. Many Deputies and Ministers now have to travel to and from Brussels week in, week out, and they do not think Brussels is too far. Why then should they think it is too far to go to Castlebar, Athlone, Sligo or other centres? If we are serious about decentralisation we must agree with this.

I am glad to see provision in this year's Estimate in regard to the Glenveagh Estate in Donegal. It is in the hands of the Board of Works due to the fine gesture of the McIlhennys. This 25,000 acre estate is very beautiful. Many years ago I had the pleasure of walking parts of it. In my view this estate could be a tremendous tourist attraction if the Office of Public Works went about the development of it in a proper manner. In the house there are some very valuable paintings, drawings and sculptures, items which I believe will be left to the Irish people. The Irish nation should say thank you to the McIlhenny family for this.

I was glad to learn from the Parliamentary Secretary that this estate will be open to the public. Not alone should this be done but the estate itself should be developed to make it more attractive. I am not sure of the breed of deer that roam the moorlands of this estate but something should be done to preserve them. Deer are becoming a great tourist attraction and with so few herds in the country—there are herds in Killarney, Wexford and the Phoenix Park—every effort should be made to preserve them. I hope the herd in Glenveagh Estate will be nurtured and that in the years to come we will see many more deer there.

Listening to the last speaker, who represents Sligo, I was disappointed that he made no reference to the Lissadell Estate. The Parliamentary Secretary has stated that negotiations have been opened for other areas of outstanding quality but surely this estate is one of the most outstanding in the country. It was here that Countess Markievicz was born and spent many years of her life. In the last few years the Gore-Booths opened the estate to the public. On my visit there it saddened me to see this house had become so dilapidated. I suggest that the Office of Public Works meet the Gore-Booths and give them some assistance towards keeping this building in good shape. It would be a national calamity if this house were to fall into a state of disrepair. In the years ahead the Lissadell Estate, with its history and tradition, will be a number one show piece.

The Parliamentary Secretary has also dealt with the Houses of the Oireachtas. Since I became a Member of this House I found that some form of recreation centre for the Members of both Houses was needed. We have to spend from 3 o'clock in the afternoon to 11 o'clock at night here and no matter how hard we work we need some form of entertainment or relaxation to keep fit. The Office of Public Works should consider providing facilities for the playing of table tennis, squash or bowling. Very few of us realise the necessity of keeping fit and many of us when we become Members of this House become a bit soft.

The Parliamentary Secretary spoke of a new Garda station for Ballyshannon but before any sum of money is spent on the erection of such a building I would ask the Office of Public Works to look at a local property which has become available, "the Brothers' residence". The Brothers, who have had this residence for a number of years, have left the district. Garda sergeants and gardaí in the area have suggested to me that the Office of Public Works should buy this building for use as a Garda station. The property could be bought at a reasonable figure and there is ample accommodation in it. At the back of this building there is an acre of ground which would provide adequate car parking space. I believe that the building suggested will have very little space for car parking. The site is opposite the local courthouse and I do not believe it is suitable for a Garda station. At present 57 gardaí are stationed in the town and it can happen that up to 20 people are seeking parking space in the vicinity of the station at the one time.

The Parliamentary Secretary has informed us that a major extension is to be carried out at Cregg House in Sligo where mentally handicapped people are catered for. Nobody in our community objects to paying more in taxes in order that the mentally and physically handicapped in our society can be cared for in proper institutions. The staff at Cregg House are deserving of the thanks of the community for the fine job they are doing. I have yet to see a finer place for the caring for the mentally handicapped than Cregg House.

Recently I visited Inishmurray Island where the Office of Public Works have carried out restoration work on a graveyard. They have done a fine job there. This uninhabited island is eight miles out in the Atlantic Ocean and is rich in historical associations.

One monument in need of attention in Donegal is the O'Donnell Castle. When one speaks of County Donegal the name O'Donnell immediately springs to mind; my predecessor was one of them. The O'Donnell Castle is a fine monument and local people have approached the Office of Public Works in an effort to have it restored. Tourism is big business in Donegal and this castle, if properly restored, would serve as a great attraction.

I notice that £64,000 has been allotted for coast protection. The area which has suffered most as a result of storm damage is the west and £64,000 is not adequate to deal with the problem of saving the shores, sand hills and beaches there. There is one particular case again in our constituency where 20 feet was washed away in the last storm leaving 20 houses now within 15 feet of the cruel sea. We have approached the Board of Works and we hope something will be done urgently, because it is no good if, when another storm comes in this area and one or two of these houses fall into the sea, as will happen, the Board of Works decide to do something about this village.

The Exchequer spends something in the region of £1,000 million per year. Living in areas where there is a lot of land needing attention people find it very distressing that only one thousandth part of that is spent on the drainage of our lands. That proportion of our total Estimate devoted to draining the land of this country seems very small indeed. Once again, if we are serious in getting back the population to the western areas, we must see that the farmers' lands are drained so that he gets the most out of his land.

It is not alone the Parliamentary Secretary's fault. This sad state of affairs has been going on for years and years. New thinking will have to be devoted to try to recover more and more of our land. It must strike anybody travelling along anywhere in Ireland today that a great deal of land is going to waste and that something must be done about it.

Finally, I would come back to the Glenbeagh estate and I would stress that this could be a great tourist attraction. It is situated in the beautiful County of Donegal and the Board of Works have been given a unique opportunity to develop its full potential. We have a proud heritage, and I hope that in future years this will be one of the showpieces of Ireland.

Maidir leis an Meastachán seo caithfimid smaoineamh ar cad tá ann agus go mórmhór cad tá ann d'áiteacha ar an gcósta thiar. Caithfimid smaoineamh ar an damáiste a rinne an stoirm agus ar an damáiste atá déanta ag na tuillte le blianta anuas. Léigh an Rúnaí Parlaiminte leathanach in dhiaidh leathanaigh amach ach an chuid is mó de caint ar pháirceanna a bhí ann. Is deas an rud é páirceanna a bheith ann do na stróinséirí a thagann ar a laetheanta saoire agus do mhuintir na tíre freisin ach níl mórán cainte in óráid an Aire faoi rudaí atá ag teastáil go géar i láthair na huaire.

Tá tugtha faoi ndear agam le blianta anuas beairicí na ngardaí—beairicí go bhfuil roint bheag péint ag teastáil uathu le caoi a chur orthu ar an dtaobh istigh agus ar an dtaobh amuigh. Ní chosnódh sé mórán iad a ghlanadh suas. Nuair a thagann cuairteoirí go dtí an tír seo caithfidh siad dul isteach i mbeairicí na ngardaí ag lorg eolais faoi rud éigin atá ag teastáil uathu. Ní maith an bhail atá ar an gcuid is mó de na beairicí. Ní féidir cuid de na fuinneoga iontu a oscailt. Is baol iad do shláinte na ngardaí atá ag obair iontu ó mhaidin go h-oíche. Tá faitíos orm nach bhfuil aon uisce i gcuid de na beairicí seo. Níl an milleán á chur agam ar an Rúnaí Parlaiminte. Ní féidir leis tada a dhéanamh gan airgead agus tá sé thar am don Aire Airgeadais airgead a chur ar fáil chun crot níos fearr a chur ar na beairicí seo ar mhaithe le sláinte na ngardaí.

Dúirt mé an bhliain seo caite—agus tá mé ag ceapadh go raibh an rud céanna á rá agam le blianta anuas— nach raibh mé sásta go léifí liosta fada amach i dtaobh céard atá ar siúl faoi scrúdú na gcéibheanna beaga ar fud na tíre, go mór mhór maidir le háiteacha a dtéann báid iascaigh isteach iontu. Ní thig le go leor bád dul isteach iontu mar gheall ar ghaineamh tar éis na stoirme. Nuair a théann tú go dtí an Oifig sé an rud céanna a chloiseann tú i gcónaí: "Tá muid ag scrúdú an rud a chuir tú isteach." Tá faitíos orm go gcuirtear an gnó ar an mhéir fhada ó bhliain go bliain.

I merely wanted to intervene on a few points. First and foremost, I should like to congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary and indeed his staff for the comprehensive document they have prepared and presented to us. Perhaps I am wrong, but I do not think it is beyond the power of the Board of Works that when a Deputy makes a case, be it for his own constituency or for the country as a whole—and, in this case, I am speaking for the country as a whole—to carry out a survey of all the little piers and landing places around our coast. At the end of the year we would have then before us, on this Estimate, what actually has been done to show us that the Board of Works are interested in restoring the little piers built in the old congested district days to the condition they were in before some or parts of them were damaged by storm or by heavy seas during storms.

Let us now take a look at the Garda barracks throughout the country. I am afraid that here it has been a case of penny wise and pound foolish. Paint does not cost that much to purchase or use. I am afraid that the windows, doors and walls of our Garda stations, both inside and outside—I hesitate to use the word but I am afraid I am forced to do so—are a disgrace to our country. I feel they are detrimental to the Garda Síochána who work in them, both from the point of view of light and air. Surely some paint, be it emulsion or otherwise, could be used to clean them up? From time to time, and particularly during the summer and Christmas and Easter periods, a lot of strangers visit this country. For one reason or another they have to call into a Garda station, be it with regard to a visa, a driving licence or something they may have mislaid. I must say that the state of these stations is no credit to us and I feel very strongly on this point. I think it was about this time last year I spoke of the principal Garda station in Galway city, in Eglinton Street, where the paint was actually peeling off the wall for two or three years without the Board of Works doing anything about it.

No, I was not in charge of the Board of Works. I made representations about it and thank heavens it was seen to shortly afterwards. The reason I raised this point is because I feel strongly that no Garda station in the country should be allowed deteriorate to the point where we see paint peeling off the walls.

There is another matter about which I feel very strongly—I am sorry the Parliamentary Secretary has left the House for the moment—it is in connection with the national schools of our country. The Parliamentary Secretary may tell me in his reply that the matter I am about to raise is for the managers of the schools. It is a matter for the managers provided they receive money for heating and cleaning. The point on which I feel so strongly is this: that all trees growing around national schools should be cut down by the Board of Works. They may not own the trees but I feel they have power to put pressure on the person who does own them to have them cut down.

I do not like mentioning constituencies but I must refer to something that happened in my own constituency some time ago. In the last big storm, during the Christmas recess, a tree fell right across the centre of an old school about to be replaced. I know a new school is to be built but that will take at least six to eight months. I am not very certain about the number attending the school but the reason I raise it is this: the new school has not been built and the old one cannot be used any longer. I should like to express sincere gratitude to the teacher there, who owned an old residence not very far away and who gave it to the Board of Works, to the manager and children so that at least they could be kept at school awaiting completion of the new building. The Parliamentary Secretary knows as well as I do what I am talking about.

But there is this problem: there is not enough accommodation in the old teacher's residence for the number of children attending the school. In this case the day of reckoning is fast approaching. The school is in the Gaeltacht area. When it comes to the end of the year, an inspector comes around and sees that a certain number of children have missed so many days from school. Because they have missed so many days the £10 deontas to which they are entitled is immediately taken from them except when they produce a doctor's certificate saying why they could not attend school.

I was saying while the Parliamentary Secretary was absent that I know that in these cases a certificate will be given and I take it the children will be paid when the day of reckoning arrives. But I think it very unfair to children of four, five, six, or seven years of age to have to spend the months of January, February, March, April, May and June at home when they could be learning a lot. I know the Parliamentary Secretary did his very best to obtain a room in a Garda station nearby which I thought myself —and which I mentioned to him— would be suitable. But, for one reason or another—and I could understand it too when it was explained to me— the barracks could not be used to that extent.

A study should be made of all the national schools and, where there is any danger from trees growing in or around them they should be cut down so that when a storm occurs the schools will suffer no damage. I suppose the children attending the school were lucky in the last storm to escape injury when the tree fell right across the centre of the building cutting it in two halves. The Office of Public Works should investigate this matter and where there are trees near a school they should be cut down and taken away.

I should like to deal now with the question of coast erosion. The most serious aspect of this is the erosion of our islands. They are being eaten away daily. We must face up to this question. The Office of Public Works and the local authorities will have to take action together promptly because this cannot be allowed to continue. I am thinking particularly of Inishbofin. If I am not mistaken a new road had to be provided there a couple of years ago and houses were endangered by the sea west of the landing pier there. If protection is not provided the people will have to move away altogether. I mentioned last year and other years that a survey should be made of all piers and landing places round our coast. They were built by the Congested Districts Board to accommodate light craft such as rowing boats. Today there are seaweed factories in the west of Ireland and there is an amount of seaweed being landed and much employment being given. There are certain piers into which no boat can pull with weed or anything else. I will accept that in the Gaeltacht areas this is a matter for Roinn na Gaeltachta but there is more than the Gaeltacht concerned, there is the Breac-Gaeltacht and there is the Galltacht. We have a factory known as Arramara Teoranta at Cill Chiaráin in Connemara to which Roinn na Gaeltachta was a big subscriber. Indirectly it employs hundreds of people throughout the year. It is wrong that a person who has spent a hard day cutting seaweed and loading it on to his boat should have to travel a long distance to land it when he could do so at a pier close at hand if it was only a little safer. I am thinking of an area round Cashel that is enclosed by land, as the Parliamentary Secretary knows. Pieces of piers have been taken away at high tide and it would not cost a lot to put them back but it would be a great help to people landing seaweed.

I know Aughnanure Castle like the back of my hand. I know every stone in it. I think it has been mentioned on this Estimate for the last three or four years. When will it be finished? Will it appear again next year? I pass this way daily. I see the scaffolding up now and again. I see the scaffolding being taken down. Will it ever be finished?

I should like to congratulate the Office of Public Works and the teachers involved in the schools for mentally handicapped children. If we need more of them in the future I believe the taxpayers will not hesitate to pay for them. I wonder whether living accommodation could be provided at the schools so that children would not have to travel many miles daily. I do not know what distance they travel at present to the schools in Galway. I know that some of them are accommodated during the week and go home at week-ends. If they have to travel 50, 60 or 70 miles each weekend I believe they should be accommodated at the schools. Not all parents have motor cars. The children would probably be quite happy if they got home about once a month.

While the Parliamentary Secretary was out of the House I spoke about piers. They fill up with sand during storms. If the local authorities must come into it I am sure they will not shirk their responsibilities. I understand the landing place at Inishbofin is blocked up at the moment. We should do everything possible to make sure that boats can land on our islands, at least in favourable weather.

All offices, whether Garda Síochána, employment exchanges or social welfare offices should be painted frequently. A person looks after one's own house if not every year at least every second year. A stitch in time saves nine and if those offices were painted at frequent intervals they would look much better.

The Parliamentary Secretary mentioned in relation to subhead G1:

The report of the cost/benefit study to which I referred last year will, I understand, be available shortly. Meanwhile a start has been made on a study of the Corrib/Mask/Robe catchment area.

This is a very burning point in the area adjoining the Lower Mask and the Upper Mask where you have arable land being eaten away by the river. It is even making a new track across arable land in the Upper Mask area.

Mr. Kenny

What location is that?

It is in the townland of Glentrague within about one and a half miles of Finney Village. The post office address is Cloughbrack Post Office, via Claremorris, County Galway. The river flows from the surrounding mountains into a glen and goes downstream to the Upper Mask. It has been blocked up by sand and some bushes and trees from the river bank. It has now started to cut across arable land, land which is so needed now that we have gone into the Common Market. If the people want to sow a few potatoes, vegetables or a small quantity of oats they are not sure whether they will be left there or swept away. The Parliamentary Secretary's predecessor met a deputation from the area. He got his engineers to look at it. I do not want to name engineers but when I say he is the engineer in charge of the area the Parliamentary Secretary will know who I mean. He is a very respected man in that area and knows it intimately.

When the sand from the mountain came to the lower part of the river it lodged on the bed and the river got filled up with sand. The water had to flow somewhere, so it flowed over the surrounding land. It has now made a new track to the Upper Mask. Something should be done about this very quickly. I feel that a small JCB machine could do the work in this area. There is no necessity for a large machine. I am talking about an area of about 600 yards only, but it is the only arable land in that area. If action is not taken soon by the Board of Works this townland will be ruined.

I wish the Parliamentary Secretary every luck in his office and in his work. My last request last year and again this year is that if the Parliamentary Secretary returns this time next year— we hope he will be in his health and in this House—knowing him as I do over a long number of years——

Mr. Kenny

Is the Deputy trying to soften me?

No. If I had anything bad to say to the Parliamentary Secretary I would say it. When he comes back here next year with a statement will he please have some kind of investigation carried out on coast erosion and tell us what has been done by the Office of Public Works? I know it is a hard office to run but I can assure the Parliamentary Secretary's officials if they are in my area I will give them all the help I can.

I, too, should like to add my voice of appreciation of the Parliamentary Secretary's substantial brief on the very important work of his Department which envisages an expenditure of approximately £20 million. His approach is a very realistic one and is typical of the man holding this important office. This is a rural man's position. There are so many difficulties in rural Ireland involved in the office of the Parliamentary Secretary that one must come from the grassroots to know exactly what is needed by the people in rural Ireland. One could speak for a week on his responsibilities, but I shall be brief.

I should like at the outset to refer to some aspects of purely local interest. The Parliamentary Secretary is involved in drainage works. I am disappointed at the fact that farmers in my constituency because of a lack of drainage have suffered from very serious flooding problems over the last 20 years. I refer in particular to the Mulcaire catchment area involving thousands of acres of what should be good land in east Limerick and north Tipperary. For the last 16 years I and the farmers in that area have been listening to promises. Unfortunately the promises have never reached performance and every year heavy losses are suffered financially by these farmers because hundreds of acres of land are rendered useless through flooding. It is a crying shame that good land should be flooded year after year. I trust the Parliamentary Secretary will bear in mind the many representations made to him on behalf of these hard-working farmers in this catchment area. I complimented the Parliamentary Secretary on his realistic approach; I hope the compliment will bear fruit within the next two years.

There are other drainage problems in the area. The Nore is affecting many farmers in the northern end of my constituency, particularly in the Roscrea area. The farmers in the Ballyfinboy area in Lower Ormonde must also await further plans in regard to the small rivers; these farmers suffer a certain loss because they are affected by these small rivers just as much as their counterparts in larger catchment areas.

Here I should like to take the opportunity of complimenting the employees of the Office of Public Works. In North Tipperary we contribute £50,000 per year towards maintenance, particularly on the Nenagh-Clary River, and I should like to put on record here my appreciation of a job well done there by the workers. I appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary to ensure that these men have continuity of employment. North Tipperary have never been slow to meet their commitments and I should not like any official of the Office of Public Works to try to prove his ability to run a concern through the medium of depriving men of employment. I have had experience of this and I think the Parliamentary Secretary can confirm what I say. I do not like to see any interference. These men are giving good service and I would appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary to ensure their continuity in employment.

With regard to school buildings, I appreciate the amount of money allocated for this purpose. One sees millions being allocated, and rightly so, for the provision of first-class schools and universities in densely-populated areas. One would like to see schools in one's constituency, particularly vocational schools, being catered for in the same way. In my area the pupil population has quadrupled in the last eight years. Prefabricated buildings are a temporary expedient. We have now reached the stage at which a realistic approach must be made to the provision of proper buildings. We must rethink the present situation and provide the finances to ensure that vocational committees will be in a position to build proper schools. These schools must carry the normal facilities one would expect in such buildings.

There are many closed schools in my area. Doubtless there are closed schools in other areas too. These schools would make ideal community centres and they should be made available for this purpose. A community hall is a focal point and I am very anxious that this facility should be made available.

With regard to the provision of houses for married gardaí, in our declaration of policy prior to the election one of our 14 points was the right of people to own their own houses. I know sergeants and gardaí who are determined to stay permanently in the town in which they are living at the moment and they are most anxious to own their own houses. Unfortunately they fall between two stools, the Department of Justice and the Department of Local Government. Some of them have been living in their present houses for the past ten years but they are still only tenants. Ordinarily humanity ordains that we should allow these men to buy these houses. The approximate number of gardaí is 8,000. There are approximately 600 NBA houses available and one can no longer argue that they must be kept available to cope with transfers. Serious consideration should be given to permitting men who are rearing their families in towns throughout the country to buy these houses. I know there must be some houses available for those who want to transfer, but the present situation is causing a certain amount of discontent and there is a move on foot to create a lobby to canvass the Ministries concerned with a view to this particular objective.

With regard to courthouses, local authorities feel they should not carry so much of the expenses inherent in the provision of maintenance of courthouses. The amount in the Estimate is much less than what the ratepayers have to meet. I should like to compliment the builders and the providers of the new post office at Nenagh. It is a credit to the Office of Public Works.

I should like to refer to an item on Shannon navigation. I live in an area where there has been a tremendous development programme for the Shannon in the last five or six years. In Dromineer and its environs there are facilities comparable to those in the Lake District in England. I can assure the Parliamentary Secretary that in view of the increased usage of the lower reaches of the Shannon there is urgent need to have regard to safety and navigational precautions for the area. People come from all over Ireland and England to Dromineer and I expect that the traffic will increase ten-fold this year. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to have an urgent look at the safety precautions on the lower reaches of the Shannon.

Last year on this Estimate I had the pleasure of congratulating the Parliamentary Secretary on his appointment. This year I wish to thank him for his courtesy and kindness to those who approached him with problems. Deputy MacSharry has already commented on this also.

Having said that, I rather feel for him being a Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance. He comes from the west of Ireland where drainage is an acute problem but the money was not available to him to do the necessary work. His intentions were probably very good but money is the important factor. I am very disappointed with the amount of money allocated for arterial drainage. Only a small percentage of the money in the Estimate will be devoted to this important sector.

Last year in the debate on the Estimate a Member referred to the curtain in the House. After the summer recess I expected to see a new curtain but the old one is still in place. I do not consider it suitable for this House. I am not sure if the Parliamentary Secretary promised to do something about this matter when it was discussed last year. I would ask him to consider it now.

The Office of Public Works are doing a good job on the preservation of national monuments. Where people have family graves in old abbeys, they should be given a certain amount of freedom to erect slabs or markers. I understand the Office of Public Works can be very strict and can prevent people from doing this. I know of one case where people have family graves in an old Franciscan abbey but they are not allowed to do any improvement work to honour the dead. The preservation of national monuments is of vital importance and the Office of Public Works should be given credit for their work.

It is important that the Office of Public Works and the nation should have control of our national parks. If the nation owns the parks the plain people of Ireland can enjoy them. I should hate to see these scenic places falling into the hands of people who might put up notices saying trespassers will be prosecuted. The people are entitled to visit and enjoy our national parks.

Mention was made of office accommodation for Government Departments. The Minister for Local Government said that the offices should be taken out of the city centres. I should like to see decentralisation but at the very least all the offices in a Department should be located in one area. The Department of Local Government is situated at O'Connell Bridge. I had difficulty in parking my car when I was visiting the offices, in fact, I incurred a few parking fines. It is not right that this Department, which is visited by very many people, should be located in one of the busiest parts of Dublin. Rural Deputies transact a considerable amount of business in the Department and I am sure they agree with me that it is not located in a suitable area.

A considerable amount of money is being spent on the telephone service and this is to be welcomed. Deputy MacSharry referred to the question of the heating of offices. The Parliamentary Secretary should consider the matter so that the necessary changes might be made in the system to ensure that native fuel is used. It was only when the fuel crisis developed last year that we realised the foolishness of depending on one kind of fuel. Very many houses have been built with no chimneys but during the oil crisis many of them were cold houses. It is most unwise to be dependent on a commodity which may be rationed or become scarce. There should be a Government policy from now on to ensure that native fuel is used in the heating systems. I would again praise the Parliamentary Secretary for what he is doing on those lines. He is doing a good job.

Schools were also mentioned. Everybody here would like to see the mentally handicapped having proper places in which they could be educated. Anything done along those lines deserves praise.

The question of drainage concerns the Parliamentary Secretary and every man west of the Shannon and even east of the Shannon. Last year I said I was disappointed that drainage was not a priority in the EEC. I admire the Parliamentary Secretary for being blunt and straight about it. I cannot understand why, when other member states can bring pressure to bear, we cannot put pressure on the Community. It is of vital importance to the survival of the people in a big area of this country that we get money for drainage. I have sympathy with the Parliamentary Secretary coming from the west who can spend only that miserable amount of money on drainage, through no fault of his own.

Most remarkable things have come out this evening on the whole question of drainage. There is no money at all for minor catchments. For surveying there is the sum of £2,000. You would not survey two decent wells for that. The quicker we face the facts and be clear and definite about them the better. The amount of money for carrying out cost/benefit surveys and for doing the work is not sufficient. To my mind this is the death knell for the small farmers. Last year I did not know the three classes of farmers under Directive 159. Now we know. They are commercial, development and transitional. A vast majority of the farmers west of the Shannon will be in the transitional category.

In my constituency we have the Fergus, the Dunkellin and the Suck. I need not tell the House all the land that is swamped by those three rivers. If money were available to drain them, hundreds of acres could be brought into production. No man can ask an adviser to prepare a farm plan for him when half his land is flooded. It is a waste of time putting artificial manure on land that is flooded. It is not feasible to prepare a plan. If the holdings of people on the border line between transitional and development could be drained, they could be stepped up into the development category and given the grants that are available for that type of farmer. This is most important. I would have been on the platform against entry into the EEC but for the fact that I expected we would get huge amounts of money. We may yet get something from the Social Fund. The Parliamentary Secretary mentioned something about that. At present drainage is not a priority and this is a disaster to us west of the Shannon.

I had a question down to the Parliamentary Secretary today and I got a straight answer. I am afraid it looks very bad. We have been hoodwinked about this river by all parties down through the years. It was supposed to be done and now it is not even started, and the Parliamentary Secretary cannot even tell me when it will be started. It is No. 10 on the list. It was No. 10 when I came up on a deputation 15 years ago and it is still No. 10. When I am dead and gone it will be No. 10, so far as I can see. Four surveys have been done which means there are five more to be started and carried out before the survey can be done on this river which flows right through my constituency. That was a very disappointing answer to get, but I presume it was a straight answer.

I do not like to criticise the Parliamentary Secretary without saying what we can do about it. We will not get money from the EEC. We have saved over £29 million in agricultural subsidies by our entry into the EEC. It would be money well spent to put a few million into drainage. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to use his influence to try to get £4 million or £5 million for drainage. Nothing less would be any good. When we fill up an LIS form they are prepared to pay it until they find out that the levels are wrong.

The whole question of land reclamation is held up because the major rivers cannot be done. I would not like to be in the position of the Parliamentary Secretary. We had other Deputies from the west who occupied the same position. In the time of the late Deputy Beegan the Killimor drainage was done. Deputy Donnellan was connected with the Corrib drainage and we also had Deputy Bartley. With the amount of money at the disposal of the Parliamentary Secretary at the moment we cannot hope to get any major scheme going in this area. He deserves better than that amount of money for drainage. He cannot hope to do any good with it.

The Dunkellin river flows through my constituency. We were doing roads in Galway and declaring them public. The bridges are not so wonderful but we were hoping that the river would be done. It is very hard to have to go back and tell these people the disappointing news—but I will do it— that they have no hope at present or in the near future of getting this river done. It is time to call the bluff. While I am in this House, be it long or short, I will tell the truth and the whole truth to the people.

There is another matter I should like to raise in connection with drainage. I remember drainage boards which I think went back to Queen Victoria's time and I understand there is some regulation under which you may go so far and no further along the minor catchments of rivers to clear them. Bad as this might be, while we are waiting for better things if we could go even a mile further something useful might be done. If you come to point A and it is not in the catchment area under some old Act, you must stop. It is time that was scrapped. Drainage boards that are operating should be allowed to clear the drains that exist; at present they cannot do so. The same applies to county councils. There are catchment areas where they can operate but when they come to a certain point they must stop because under some old Act they may go no farther. Could anything be done in that regard to get these drains cleared? The most important thing— and it will be repeated by every Deputy from the west of Ireland who speaks here—is that we cannot hope that any reasonable number of farmers will come into the development category while the land of the West of Ireland is under water and is capable of being drained.

Drainage of the Suck may appear to be a remote prospect because it is linked with the Shannon. Some years ago I remember we had American experts here and I think they ruled out drainage and suggested banking as the only means of dealing with the Shannon. That is something I shall scarcely see. There is no problem in that regard in connection with the Dunkellin. I do not know what genius thought of a cost/benefit survey. I agree with the Parliamentary Secretary in what he said because we were told this before the cost/benefit survey began. Previously, the survey was done by the farmers. Macra na Feirme paid an engineer to estimate the cost in regard to flooding along that river. It is remarkable that there was very little difference between the costing done when the cost/benefit analysis was introduced and our costings. I recall being in the Office of Public Works on a deputation in connection with this river. I think it is silly to spend all that money on a cost/benefit analysis. Anybody who drives 30 miles into Galway city from where I live could certainly see the benefits. They are there to be seen without requiring any experts to examine them; the costs may be another matter. In the case of boggy or marshy land a cost/benefit survey may be justified but this is good land if the water could be removed. It is a shame that in 1974 we are as far away as ever from having this land drained.

I am not blaming the Parliamentary Secretary because this situation has existed for a long time. We are talking about it for the past 20 years and will probably be talking about it for another 20, whoever will be left to talk about it. That is how it appears to me. We were always anxious to have a western Deputy in charge of the Board of Works. I think some serious thinking should be done about what I am suggesting, that if the EEC do not produce the money—I do not see why they should not—the money we are saving by our membership of the EEC should be used instead and could not be better spent than on drainage. I believe that the present policy indicated by the directives will depopulate the west of Ireland if there is no provision for drainage. I am totally opposed to them as they are at present and I have pressed hard to have them amended. I cannot understand why we cannot do something. We cannot use our veto but Britain and the Italians can do what they like within the EEC. We are also a member. I do not believe they can afford to lose anybody and the sooner we stand up and say that we are not taking everything as it is handed out to us, the better. We should demand our rights and say that we think drainage should be a priority in our country and insist that we get money for it. I think we must become much tougher in Brussels. Apparently, we think that because we are a small nation and because we are supposed to be getting £50 million or £60 million for the payment of £5 million, we cannot do that. This is what we are told but I cannot see it. I should like to see the £60 million on paper. As somebody said, we could get it theoretically. Theoretically, we save £29 million in agricultural subsidies but I wonder if you examine the practical side of it have we got £60 million?

In any case that yardstick should not be used against us when we ask for money for what we think is of vital importance in saving the west of Ireland. I am not ashamed to be parochial, if that is suggested, because when Ireland lay broken and bleeding she called for revenge to the west and the west will go by the board unless somebody stands up and shouts. I have been told that there is no use in talking but it has been proved to me through the years that if you talk enough somebody will listen. It is time that we in this country began talking and talking very loudly in Brussels and saying that we will not accept everything that is dished out to us, that we have our priorities and that we insist on having our demands met or otherwise we will use the veto. It may be said we are too small to use it. I do not believe that even though it is the last thing I should like to see happen. If the Government get tough they will have the support of this side of the House; that is my opinion as a backbencher. I believe they will have the support of every reasonableminded citizen if they get tough in insisting on our own priorities from the EEC. The most important thing, if we are to save the small farmers, particularly in the west, is to secure money for drainage.

I have sympathy with the Parliamentary Secretary because I know his heart is in the right place and he would like to see this land drained. What can be done with the miserable sum of money provided for drainage? We would require double the normal life span before we could make any impact on draining the land with the amount of money provided in the Estimate through no fault of the Parliamentary Secretary's. This is why I say we should get tough now. The money is not going to the right places. I am not criticising expenditure on parks and monuments; this is excellent work. Indeed, I should like to congratulate the Board of Works on the fine jobs they have done in Portumna and Clonfert.

Progress reported; Committee to meet again.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 8th May, 1974.
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