asked the Minister for Education if he proposes to take appropriate action to provide accommodation for young people who are on trial or who have been sentenced for serious offences so that proper medical treatment may be given them.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Young Offenders' Accommodation.
19.
Accommodation for boys under 16 years of age on remand awaiting trial and for whom the courts consider custodial care is necessary is provided in the remand and assessment centre at Finglas, County Dublin. Over a 12-month period this centre can accommodate about 360 boys. Accommodation for girls on remand is available in six smaller training centres situated in Dublin and elsewhere. Proper medical services, including psychiatric services, are available in all these centres.
The special schools at Lusk, Finglas and Clonmel provide a rehabilitation programme in an educational setting for boys found guilty of offences. Appropriate facilities for girls are provided in the training centres already referred to. Again, all necessary medical care is available in these schools and centres.
There are some offenders whose behaviour results from emotional difficulties or personality disorders and for whom treatment in a medical rather than an educational setting is indicated. Residential provision for such children is in the hands of the health authorities.
The question of extending the assessment and treatment facilities for young offenders is being approached as part of a programme of fundamental change in the system of child-care which will entail the enactment of new legislation. As the Deputy will be aware, a full-time task force is working on this.
May I state, arising from that reply, that I think we are more interested in the children who cannot be accommodated rather than those who can be accommodated? We read harrowing stories each week of youngsters being sent to places like the Bridewell because there is nowhere else to send them. What immediate steps are the Government taking to remedy this appalling situation?
The long-term needs in this area are being examined and identified as part of the work of the task force set up by the Minister for Health. I indicated last year, as an interim measure, the capital provision in the immediate future which is being provided for the extension of the assessment and special school facilities. There is a problem in quantifying exactly how many extra places are necessary because to some extent it has been the experience in other countries that a sort of Parkinson's Law operates, that the more places you provide, they are inevitably filled by the courts. That should not be so in some cases where many of these children could be better cared for in the community. There is a need for better information as to exactly how many places in each of the categories are needed, namely, remand, remand for assessment and residential care subsequent to sentence. This is a matter which, as I said, is being examined by the task force, on which my Department are represented.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary give a guarantee that in future itinerant children or, indeed, any children, will not be sent to the Bridewell when they get into trouble?
I think the Deputy probably has a particular incident in mind which occurred in the last two or three weeks. The problem here was that this was a group of eight children and the assessment centre, which is primarily designed as an assessment centre rather than as a remand centre pending sentence—most children on remand are remanded at home on the bail of their parents—was not in a position to cope with what was an unprecedented event for it, eight children together, who were already in a coherent group of young people acting together in a particular way. They were not in a position to cope with such an unusually large group coming together and unfortunately all of them could not be accommodated in Finglas. Two are now accommodated there.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary saying there is no provision now for proper accommodation pending trial for children coming from a deprived background, be they itinerant or otherwise, whose parents cannot be immediately traced to have them out on remand?
There was insufficient provision in this case which was a most unusual one.
In view of that, and also as it does not seem to be that exceptional, that young people who have not proper parental contral move in what one might call gangs, should they not be the people the Parliamentary Secretary should be most concerned about? He spoke about long-term needs. Is it not evident now that there is an immediate need to provide proper accommodation for children on remand, such as those Deputy Moore has referred to.
These are very long questions by the Deputy.
This is a very important matter.
The Chair has already devoted considerable time to this question.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary simply hoping it will not happen again?
No. I have indicated that measures are being taken to improve the facilities available. I am sure the Deputy appreciates this involves a substantial investment in capital on buildings and so on and that these will not materialise immediately. We have plans on hand to improve and expand the facilities available.
Question No. 20.
Will the Parliamentary Secretary give a guarantee that children will not be sent to the Bridewell in future?
The Deputy has already asked that question.
As the Deputy will appreciate, I have no control over what decisions the courts might take regarding a particular group of children.