asked the Minister for Education the future he envisages for the students of Galway Regional Technical College who will have completed the two-year foundation course in Art and Design in June 1975; when he expects a decision from the NCEA on the diploma course which was submitted in May 1974; and if he will make a statement on the future of this course in the college.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - NCEA Diploma Course.
22.
The students who successfully complete the foundation course can, according to their own wishes, pursue a further course of two years for which the college is seeking validation from the NCEA. If validated the diploma will enable them to seek employment in industry, in design and related areas. Alternatively, they can seek acceptance in the National College of Art and Design with a view to following courses leading to qualification as recognised teachers of Art.
Did I hear right? Am to take it that the Parliamentary Secretary said about students who are finishing a two-year course this year that they can continue a course of studies for a diploma, if validated? I want to make sure if I heard that right.
That is the position in relation to a number of courses which are awaiting validation by the NCEA.
Does the Parliamentary Secretary know—he does because he was at a meeting there—that an application was made to the NCEA last June to have a diploma course validated?
I also know that the NCEA——
Does the Parliamentary Secretary know that?
I know that an application was sent to the NCEA a considerable time ago——
For the full structural course?
I also know the NCEA are considering this matter. A seminar was held as recently as last December, jointly sponsored by the Department and the NCEA at which this matter was gone into in detail. The full report of that seminar is not yet available but an interim report was presented to the Council of the NCEA by a working party and as a result the council established a panel of assessors to consider and recommend on all courses in the fields of Art and——
Does the Parliamentary Secretary realise——
——this panel held their first meeting on 14th February, 1974.
——that people who are on this course at the moment do not know whether the diploma will be validated? Does he realise that students at the moment do not know where they are going in June? Does he also realise that if they have to apply to the National College of Art and Design, the deadline for applications there is very near? Does he further realise that the two-year foundation course in Galway will not necessarily fit into the courses in the National College of Art and Design? Furthermore, does he know that the number of places available in the National College of Art and Design is very limited? In fact, it is quite certain that the students will not all be able to get places there.
This is a very long question, Deputy.
The same holds for the Polytechnic in Belfast. The deadline is very near when applications must be in from those students. There are about ten other very important questions involving these students.
I am afraid we cannot delve into it too deeply today.
A Cheann Comhairle, I think you should indulge me until we clarify this position for these students.
Was the National Council for Education Awards appointed with the specific objective of independently assessing the eligibility of such courses? Is it correct to say it would not be right for the Parliamentary Secretary, or indeed a Minister, to try to interfere with its work?
That is precisely the point. I think the difficulty here would be that it is——
That is a field man and he is wrong.
Please, Deputy.
Will the Parliamentary Secretary not agree?
I think the Parliamentary Secretary was endeavouring to reply.
Deputy Collins was allowed to interrupt him.
Deputy Collins asked a supplementary question; it was not an interruption in that sense.
The position is that the NCEA is autonomous in order that its decisions in relation to the validation of courses can have a standing which is not subject to political pressure. The Deputy will appreciate that if political pressure is exercised on the NCEA, either to make a particular decision in relation to a particular course or to unduly hasten a decision in relation to a particular course and, as a result, not do all the investigations necessary, its decisions on the validation of courses will not have the standing, national and international, which the students deserve. It is fair to say that, when the students took up this course and when the course was set up, everybody was aware that the course was not at that stage validated by the NCEA and that that matter would have to be gone into subsequently. That matter is now being gone into and there is no question of this matter having been dealt with in an improper manner. If the NCEA and the RTCs were set up prematurely, or without advance planning having been made in relation to them, that was a decision taken by the previous Government.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary tell the students who have enjoyed the two-year foundation course in the RTCs that they should not have been admitted, that the course should not have been available to them? Would he also tell them that the NCEA was killed on the 16th December, was revived since then, under pressure and would he tell them what kind of state it is in at present?
The NCEA is in a perfectly healthy state.
Question No. 23.
Might I ask the Parliamentary Secretary whether the NCEA was set up with a view to facilitating the recognition, both national and international, of the various courses then envisaged for the RTCs; whether, in his opinion, they have been doing their job since then and, if they are not, why the hell are they allowed to stay there?
The NCEA is carrying out its job in a conscientious manner. It was set up as an autonomous body and I think the attempts by Fianna Fáil to politicise its operations are not a definitive statement as to what steps
Question No. 23.
A Cheann Comhairle——
I am anxious to facilitate the Deputy in eliciting information but I cannot remain unduly long on any given question. Some of these questions today are taking an inordinate length of time to dispose of. A final supplementary from Deputy Wilson before we go to the next question.
Would the Ceann Comhairle agree that, when the future of students is at stake, it is very important?
It is a very important question, Deputy, but so also are the other questions, indeed all of the questions on this Order Paper.
Will the Parliamentary Secretary say that the Minister for Education will guarantee to these students—if they have to go—grants to enable them to go to the Polytechnic in Belfast or the College of Art and Design in Dublin?
I have no information to that effect. If the Deputy wishes to put down a question in relation to grant-aid arrangements, I will gladly deal with it.
Does the Parliamentary Secretary care what happens to them? No, not a damn.
Question No. 23.
In view of the completely negative attitude of the Parliamentary Secretary and the total lack of information in this regard, I wish to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
The Deputy is late for today. He may raise it again on another Dáil sitting day.