asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he is aware that insured workers who have returned from Britain cannot claim unemployment benefit although they are in full credit as regards British social insurance; if the authority for the regulation making it mandatory for these people to have at least one Irish insurance stamp on their return before they can qualify for insurance benefit is in accord with EEC regulations on reciprocity of social insurance; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Social Insurance Regulations.
18.
I am not so aware. In accordance with EEC regulations an insured worker with the necessary record of British insurance who has become unemployed in Britain and who has been entitled to unemployment benefit there for at least four weeks, can, on returning to this country, continue to receive benefit for up to three months provided he registers for employment here and satisfies the usual conditions for receipt of unemployment benefit.
An unemployed person who has not registered for employment in Britain and who has no record of insurance here or whose record of insurance here is insufficient in itself to give title to benefit, must, as provided by EEC regulations, first obtain insurable employment here, which involves payment of at least one contribution, to enable his Irish and British records to be combined for the purpose of establishing entitlement to benefit, unless he falls into one of the special categories of seasonal workers, frontier workers and international transport workers who are exempted from this minimal requirement.
Could I ask the Parliamentary Secretary if it is a fact that all workers returning from England who have been employed in England, who decide to return home and who register for unemployment benefit, having full contributions in Britain, are not entitled to benefit until they have a minimum of one insurance stamp?
Yes, it is a fact.
Has this always been in force or is it only since the introduction of the EEC regulations?
No, I think it is in force under a reciprocal arrangement which was made and was in operation before our entry into the EEC.
It never operated here before. Anyone who came home with full insurance contributions in Britain could establish his right to unemployment benefit in this country, without having at least one stamp. All it necessitated was the giving of the British insurance number to the employment exchange who would then establish his right to unemployment benefit and make payment after a few weeks, without having the one stamp.
The Deputy is imparting information rather than seeking it.
I am asking if this has been in operation only since the introduction of the EEC regulations. It did not exist before and I have absolute proof of this. Is it an EEC regulation which has worsened the conditions of workers?
It is covered by regulations under the EEC regulations, but I could not tell the Deputy whether it was embodied in the previous regulations and reciprocal arrangements which were in existence for a number of years before our entry into the EEC.
In a situation like that, will the Parliamentary Secretary not agree that the EEC regulations are making life a little more difficult for Irish workers returning from Britain? Can anything be done to alter or modify these regulations?
No, I could not agree. The Deputy is anticipating a further question he has down regarding EEC regulations and their effect on insurable workers.
Here is a situation which has arisen only since the introduction of the EEC regulations which is certainly making the situation of Irish workers a lot more difficult. There are many thousands who have come back and this gives them no hope of ever getting employment.
This is not a question.
In such a situation, would the Parliamentary Secretary not agree that there is a need to provide them with unemployment benefit which is rightfully due, they having so many contributions in Britain? They would be in full benefit in Britain, had they stayed there.
They can, provided they have the qualifications under insurability here, obtain immediate unemployment benefit.
This is not quite true, if I may say so. They are not entitled——
We cannot debate this matter on a question.
Many people with 20 years' contributions in Britain come home and they cannot claim benefit because they must be employed for at least one week here. That never existed before and I am asking if anything can be done in relation to that very serious problem.
No. It is covered by EEC regulations and nothing can be done.
So now we know.
The Deputy is asking questions and then proceeding to answer them. If the Deputy wants me to answer a question——
The Parliamentary Secretary said it was not the EEC and I say it is.
What I said was that this is under EEC regulations. I do not know at this precise moment whether or not the same condition applied under the reciprocal arrangement which was in operation for a number of years before our entry into the EEC. That is precisely what I said.
Would it be possible to get that information?
It would, certainly.
Could anything be done to remedy this situation?
I will get the Deputy the information.
This is an important matter, so many are affected——
It might be important, but I am not going to give an undertaking which I might not be able to fulfil.
Could it be looked into?
If it is an EEC regulation it would not lie within our independent competence to do anything about it.
The Parliamentary Secretary has undertaken to supply some information to Deputy O'Connell. As he is probably aware, I have a similar sort of case with him for consideration for some time and I cannot get——
I am not so aware.
The Parliamentary Secretary should be.
Why?
I cannot get a satisfactory answer from the Department to clear the matter up and if the Parliamentary Secretary is sending certain information to Deputy O'Connell, will he send it to the rest of us as well? Can we have that gurantee?
There is nothing to stop any Deputy from placing a question down if he wants information.
On a point of order, rather than clutter up the Order Paper with questions I have taken the procedure of writing to the Parliamentary Secretary's office for information and I cannot get a clear-cut answer to the problem I posed to him and in those circumstances I do not think he should give me that sort of reply.
What percisely does the Deputy want to know?
The same information.
Question No. 19.
Is it the position that somebody coming back here cannot qualify for benefit under EEC regulations?
That has been answered.
It has not.
Question No. 19 has been called.