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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 26 Nov 1975

Vol. 286 No. 2

Private Members' Business. - Tourist Traffic Bill, 1975: Committee Stage.

Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2.
Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."

Most Deputies who have spoken from both sides laid particular emphasis on the pollution of the environment and the Minister said that an inter-departmental committee had been set up to investigate what should be done and to co-ordinate the work of the various Departments involved—Industry and Commerce, Local Government and Transport and Power. On the day we were discussing this, we saw a report in one of the daily papers to the effect that 61 lakes and rivers were polluted and reference was made in the article to the public apathy in the matter. Mr. Morrow, general manager of the Inland Fisheries Trust, said that what was really needed to cope with pollution was a serious commitment and action by the Government and the public authorities to lead the public out of their apathy and to bring a halt to the unlawful dumping of waste. I would appeal to the Minister to see to it that there will be no delay in the production and implementation of the committee's findings. The situation is particularly serious this year especially with the drop in water levels which is more pronounced than it was during years when we had wet seasons. When we learn that 61 lakes and rivers are polluted, it is a very serious matter and it should be attended to without delay.

Comments were also made regarding the bringing to the attention especially of schoolgoers the matter of pollution and if there were a programme in the schools in relation to pinpointing the dangers to our environment of pollution generally, it would be a commendable step.

Another matter I wish to refer to is the dispute between Aer Lingus and the travel agents with regard to package tours. This situation is very much to be regretted and it is in the interests of the tourist industry, on which both these sections are dependent, that it be brought to a speedy and amicable conclusion. I ask the Minister to use his good offices to encourage an early settlement of this dispute. I think negotiations are going on. Both benefit from each other in this case and I am sure would like to see a quick ending to it. Another matter is the withdrawal of Aer Lingus from the transatlantic service. One is disturbed on many counts when one reads that Aer Lingus are considering withdrawing from the Atlantic routes. It was a long, tough battle to get those routes established and they carried a good deal of prestige. It would be a backward step if Aer Lingus were to drop out of the Atlantic trade.

Section 2 deals with giving grants for development works.

I also want to mention the disappointment at the efforts of our largest towns in the Tidy Towns competition which did not even warrant a prize being awarded in the large town section. We realise that large towns have particular problems but the results were disappointing in that no prize was awarded.

This section says that the money should be spent on capital projects. Deputy Leonard mentioned the serious position regarding lake pollution. There is a very serious problem in that regard in my own constituency and there is an opportunity for capital expenditure in order to cope with it. I know a principle has been established that the polluter pays. In the area of one of the most popular trout lakes in the midlands, Lake Sheelin, there are very large pig units near the lake. The "polluter pays" principle may be good because it makes the polluter careful but I think there is an onus on the Department of Transport and Power, as the Department responsible for tourism, to engage in some research and development in this regard so that there may be a possibility of building purification plants at the major rivers and rivulets that flow into a lake. I am thinking particularly of Lake Sheelin.

There are two industries involved here, the farmers—they are good farmers who are developing this very important industry—and the hoteliers. The capital projects as regards the hoteliers involved providing more accommodation. Bord Fáilte seem to be satisfied that that part of the job has been reasonably well done.

Here are two important industries and there must be some way in which capital expenditure will solve this dilemma because there is no point in the confrontation that is developing in the region between the agriculturalists and the hoteliers and guesthouse owners. There is a serious pollution problem and I think Bord Fáilte should see if they could erect purification plants at major inlets into lakes to save lakes such as Lake Sheelin for fishermen. That area attracts visitors from Germany, Holland and so on. There is pollution of the lake and a smell of pollution which was very serious this summer and visitors actually complained that they could not stand the smell or large pig units. The Minister's Department may have the facility for study and the means to erect purification plants or to produce a type of chemical that will deal with the problem. Confrontation will only breed bad feeling in the locality. We are talking of the Department of Transport and Power and money available for projects of a capital nature and there should be a possibility of spending money on purification plants and "desmellification" plants—pardon the coining of a word —to cope with this serious problem.

Deputy Leonard spoke of 61 lakes being polluted and quite a few of those are in the midlands. There is no point in having the knowledge if remedies are not applied. I agree with Deputy Leonard that propaganda in schools and so on is important and in that region one of the best Macra na Tuaithe clubs in the country won first prize in Ireland for a project connected with this problem. But knowledge is not enough: money must be spent to solve the problem and I recommend the Minister to ask his Department to do some research on this project. Both industries are valuable to the area and capital expenditure may be able to help in this regard. It is essential that something be done before the problem causes serious disruption in the community.

Bord Fáilte have been responsible in the past for developments regarding piers and boat accommodation. On the western, or Finea end of Lake Sheelin there is a river bank area that needs development and some not-too-expensive capital projects could improve that end of the lake.

I share the views of my colleagues in regard to the pollution of lakes but I would like to extend the subject to include some of our valleys which are being used for refuse dumping—not indiscriminate dumping: what I have in mind are proposals coming from various local authorities to dispose of refuse. The only system they seem to evolve is: "We have a valley there into which we will push rubbish. We hope to get many years out of it and in the end we will have a flat terrain which we can turn into some kind of park". Meanwhile many beauty spots will be destroyed. This is a particular problem in a valley between Dublin and Wicklow, the valley of Ballymahon.

I would ask the Minister to encourage the board to use some of this money to investigate, along with other Departments, the possibility of other forms of refuge disposal other than dumping because these valleys are tourist attractions and their beauty is well-known. The present system is a very negative one, that of simply levelling them off. If this is continued, where will we end up? Will it mean that the bigger the valley we can find the better because, in time, we will have merely flat areas? Perhaps the Minister through his Department, could instigate some form of survey into incineration or compaction.

The Deputy is moving away from the section because these grants are for development works.

I know that they must be capital in nature.

Yes, and they are so specified.

At paragraph (b) of subsection (1) it says: "in the opinion of the Board will develop tourism,". Perhaps I could deal even with that aspect of it.

The Chair is concerned about the enlargement of the section. The section is clearly confined to grants for development works.

Yes, and I am making my case especially in relation to valleys.

The Chair allowed it in relation to valleys but the Deputy was proceeding——

Perhaps I may be allowed draw a parallel. We have seen many forest walks developed and capital expended on them. Have we ever considered some form of nature trails in many of our valleys that would show a lot of our flora and fauna? Instead of our valleys being used for other purposes we should be considering capital outlay on their improvement, perhaps in some form of adventure trails or of leisurely walks to make our people more conscious of the beauty of their surroundings. Rather we see our valleys being used for the purpose of dumping refuse.

Perhaps we might have a dual approach made by the Minister and the Department, with the expenditure of capital, in an endeavour to make these valleys more accessible to the public, and make the public more aware of their attractions. Also, with a view to preserving the very existence of these valleys, perhaps the Minister would act, in conjunction with other Departments, with a view to considering other systems of refuse disposal such as incineration or compaction. We are told the cost of these would be extremely high.

The Deputy is moving away again from the section.

Nevertheless, I would hope that capital would be expended on this. I feel I have made my point. Possibly the Minister is aware of this and I shall accede to the wishes of the Chair.

I want merely to make a few observations on this Bill. Without going beyond paragraph (c) of subsection (1) it occurs to me that development of such things as camping and caravan sites could be included in these development works. Private enterprise has done some work in this respect, as, indeed, have the office of Public Works. It seems to me that a properly planned series of camping and caravan sites on a fixed tour to be recommended by Bord Fáilte would be most desirable.

If the Deputy will look at paragraph (c) he will notice that they are not works for the development of holiday accommodation.

I am not suggesting that we provide accommodation. Rather I am suggesting that people with their own caravans be given a site on which to park them.

We cannot have such a discussion in Committee on a section such as this.

I cannot understand why the provision of amenities for tourists at various locations in the country would not be covered in this section—works of a capital nature but not providing accommodation.

Because paragraph (c) says they are not works for the development of holiday accommodation.

I am not speaking about the provision of holiday accommodation. I am suggesting that a properly planned programme of adequate siting of these could be provided by Bord Fáilte, making the tourists' holiday more attractive.

That might have been appropriate on Second Stage but not on Committee Stage.

They are catered for in section 3.

But not in section 2.

I have only read section 2 since I came in. I take it that such matters as the improvement of roadways would be included in this.

That would be a matter for the Department of Local Government.

Surely Bord Fáilte have already provided tourist roads. I have travelled along some in the west where they have been provided and have proved very successful. Certainly, I have been very happy to motor along them. Indeed, some roads have been constructed by Bord Fáilte on old tracks.

From what the Minister says, I imagine that such roads as the Rosslare/Dublin, Rosslare/Cork or Rosslare/Kilkenny would be proper to the local authorities and the Minister for Local Government. But I am speaking of scenic roads as yet inaccessible to modern transportation. I should like to see the work done in this regard extended. Perhaps the Minister would indicate if there are any such plans, because I believe this type of capital expenditure is most desirable. Furthermore, while I was in the Office of Public Works, we were concerned with the construction of fishery harbours for the fishing industry. No provision could be made by that Department for landing places for pleasure craft. If Bord Fáilte and the Office of Public Works engaged in work on these fishery harbours got together in every case to ensure that, while the Board of Works are carrying out the major construction— while their men and machinery are there—landing places were provided for pleasure craft it would be of tremendous advantage to all concerned.

It seems that the vast majority of motoring tourists who land in Rosslare are inclined to head for Cork and the Ring of Kerry. Were Bord Fáilte to issue appropriate leaflets and erect proper signposts some beautiful tours could be arranged around the midlands—say, Kilkenny Castle, the Rock of Cashel, Holy Cross Abbey, Cahir Castle and other monuments of interest in that area, a most suitable historic and scenic tour could be encouraged.

I do not know whether capital would have to be expended in grading all places that sell food. It is something that has been in the offing and it may not be applicable under this Bill. I am wondering also if the amount to be provided under this Bill is sufficient. If we are entering into the construction of scenic roads, or the improvement of some roads on new, suggested tours, a great deal of money will be required.

There is just one other point I wish to make which has to do with coast erosion. There are places where amenities such as golf courses are being undermined and going into the sea.

That would not be the responsibility of the Minister's Department.

Bord Fáilte can take action if they want to protect the amenities for tourism. I am about to refer to the reason why I think Bord Fáilte should do it.

The section is confined to development works.

Capital works.

But development works.

Yes. It is to prevent the erosion of development that has already taken place. You will get me to sit down more quickly if you allow me to make my point.

The Chair is not anxious to get the Deputy to sit down. The Chair is anxious to keep the Deputy within the scope of the debate, in case other Deputies would follow him.

I want to make this one reference. The Coast Erosion Acts are so cumbersome that very little work is being done. This is an area in which Bord Fáilte might consider spending capital moneys to protect amenities which are being washed into the sea. I would ask the Minister to look into that aspect. It is something I could not deal with when I was in the Office of Public Works.

Mr. Kitt

I should like to second what Deputy Wilson said regarding making finance available to prevent pollution. I appreciate that the Minister has shown concern about this and indeed has said that there is "co-ordination of Departments"—I believe those are the words he used—to deal with this problem.

When one gets down to specific problems it is very confusing for a public representative who wants to bring particular problems to the attention of a Minister. For example, if I could be specific and mention Lough Corrib, both Deputy Molloy and I have got the reply from the Office of Public Works that it is not their responsibility. We do not know whose responsibility it is. Perhaps the Minister would let us know. If this is what is meant by "co-ordination of Departments" I do not believe it is effective.

The Foras Forbartha report has shown that there is some enrichment in the lower lake of Lough Corrib and the problem is highlighted by the fact that Galway County Council have appointed four technicians to deal with the problem of preventing pollution. I hope they will be able to achieve something. The problem remains that there is silting in the lake and we do not know whose responsibility it is.

Peat silting is causing a problem in the Shannon and the Suck. Although Bord na Móna accept that there is pollution there and are doing all they can, I am surprised that the Minister did not refer in his speech to the EEC dimension in this. There is this dimension in that a second environmental research programme will be beginning shortly from 1976 to 1980. The Minister did not refer to the fact that proposals could be made by interested organisations and personnel. Surely Bord na Móna would be able to submit a project and have the scientific opinions and brains available to enable them to do so. I would ask the Minister to consider this aspect.

The problem of pollution has been highlighted particularly in Galway in these two areas. The fact that so many people are speaking about pollution shows the concern there is about the problem.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
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