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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 26 Nov 1975

Vol. 286 No. 2

Private Members' Business. - Tourist Traffic Bill, 1975: Committee Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."

In connection with capital expenditure under the Bill, grants could be given to State bodies to deal with pollution. I refer to the body referred to by Deputy Kitt— Bord na Móna. The Minister said in his Second Reading speech that there is no pollution by Bord na Móna. I want to make it clear that we are all in favour of the expansion of Bord na Móna but we have to strike a balance between keeping the environment clean and the expansion of industry. It is the view of a great many people that Bord na Móna are not doing all they should do to prevent peat silting in the Shannon and the Suck.

I should like to see capital expenditure by State-sponsored bodies on research. If settling lakes were made by Bord na Móna before development of bogs the silt would settle and less of it would go into the major rivers. That is a matter that should be considered in order to satisfy people who want to see Bord na Móna develop our natural resources but do not want rivers and lakes to be polluted.

Pollution is a very important question. If private enterprise and farmers are required to take certain measures and to expend money on the prevention of pollution State bodies should also be required to do so. People who have studied this matter are of the opinion that State bodies are not doing all they should do in this matter. I should like some of this capital to go towards the prevention of pollution by State bodies.

I mentioned on Second Reading that the grants for extension of accommodation for farmhouse holidays should be restored immediately. This is very important to the tourist industry in the west.

It is held that Bord na Móna are causing pollution. The Minister says they are not and that they are doing all they can. It is held that they are not.

That is not what I said.

Section 2 is the operative section in so far as it provides money for an important industry. Every Deputy on this side could list very necessary works to be carried out from the point of view of amenities and I would like the Minister to explain what he expects can be done with the paltry sum he is making available. This is one of the most important industries we have. We are scourged with unemployment and the forecast for 1976 is gloomy indeed. People are beginning to wonder whether they will be able to exist when the new range of increased prices comes into being. The Government have obviously taken the result of the Mayo by-election as the green light and they are now determined to scourge the people further with price rises.

We are expecting the Government to put millions into the development of this important industry. That investment would take some of the 107,000 off the dole queue because they could engage in very necessary works which would improve the industry and help to pull the country out of the depths to which it has sunk. Will the Minister explain why only this paltry sum is being provided? Every Member could enumerate hundreds of necessary development works. This money would not touch the fringe of one tourist county. The country needs a real injection to improve the ecoomy. This action demonstrates very clearly the fact that the Government have no intention of making any serious effort to do something worthwhile for the economy and that on the eve of what may well be the most disastrous year the country will ever face. Here, I am quoting everybody, including the Minister for Finance.

All that is being made available is a paltry sum which will barely take up the slack to which this Government have contributed. We must look like fools knowing that the economy needs a real injection in one of the best industries the country has, an industry that contributes to our balance of payments, an industry which would take thousands off the dole, thousands who could engage in useful work, something the country sorely needs at present. Is it not a mockery to come in here and talk about a few pounds to deal with pollution of waterways and so on? The whole thing is a farce. Thank God, in the west we have been endowed with the raw materials that make a good tourist environment. We have the amenities given to us by God. How is it the Government, who pretend to be concerned about the serious state of the economy, a state to which they themselves have contributed, could not do more than announce new ESB and postal charges? Perhaps the Minister is marking time. Perhaps when the new year comes we will have £100 million extra to do something for an industry that can contribute so much towards restoring the economy to what it was a few years ago. Perhaps there is some plan. Perhaps some research has been done and there will be a regional programme. If there is nothing other than what is in the Bill we are just wasting our time. We are witnessing the cynicism of the Minister and the Government. They are not even scratching the surface of the problem. The Minister cannot take any kudos from this. The few pounds being provided here would not even do the few things at parochial level about which Members have spoken. Unless the Minister can give us more reassuring information this whole thing is a farce.

As the Leas-Cheann Comhairle pointed out, many of the contributions so far have been outside the scope of the section. I have taken particular note of what was said about pollution and I have made it clear in a number of speeches recently that I am concerned about pollution because it can endanger tourism. Our waters, our rivers and our lakes are attractions. There are people who want to holiday in boats and fish in rivers and lakes and I am concerned to ensure that our waters are properly preserved. I am anxious standards should be restored.

Deputy Leonard referred to the inter-departmental committee. That committee will report not just once. It will be a continuing process. The committee will co-ordinate the efforts of the other Departments involved and get whatever needs to be done done as quickly as possible.

The Deputy also referred to Aer Lingus and the Irish Travel Agents' Association. I prefer to stay out of this. The two bodies should get together and resolve their difficulties. I understand they met last week and were meeting again today. I do not know with what result yet. I agree that Aer Lingus should stay on the Atlantic. For prestige reasons it is essential they should.

Many of the matters mentioned by Deputies can be dealt with. This money is not being provided for the Department of Transport and Power. It is money being voted for Bord Fáilte and Bord Fáilte will spend it in consultation with the local authorities, the Office of Public Works and the Department of Lands. Many of the projects mentioned can be fitted in.

Deputy Brennan said the amount was paltry. I do not think £4.75 million is paltry. Were I to look for £100 million I am sure Deputy Brennan would follow me into the Lobby to vote for the extra taxation. Money does not come out of thin air.

That is not an answer.

In 16 years £8 million was spent for this purpose. In a period of two to three years £4.75 million is made available. I did not pluck these figures out of the air. This is a figure arrived at in conjunction with Bord Fáilte who consider this to be the amount they will use in that period.

Does this refer to a period of two years?

No. This is the amount the board estimate they will need. Frequently there are arguments in this House to the effect that semi-State companies should be given £X and not have the Ministers concerned coming back to the House seeking more money. I do not subscribe to that argument because I believe that we should have debates here as often as possible on semi-State companies and that Ministers should come before the House frequently seeking extra money when the affairs of the various bodies could be debated. Bord Fáilte estimate that the figure being sought here will be sufficient for their needs during the next two to three years.

I wish to avail of the opportunity afforded by this Bill to draw the Minister's attention to problems similar to the one mentioned by Deputy Kitt. I am concerned about the condition of the river Corrib and of Lake Corrib and of the difficulties that exist in relation to tackling these problems.

In particular there is the difficulty regarding responsibility for the work that is needed to deal with the problems. Perhaps the Minister would take note of some of the matters I mention and ascertain who is responsible for dealing with them. He might be able to tell us, too, whether Bord Fáilte will provide for this work any of the moneys being voted to them.

Lake Corrib has been affected slightly by some form of pollution. This is nothing serious apart from the question of the enrichment of the lower lake which was referred to in the recent Foras Forbartha report. This enrichment is causing excessive growth of weed and plant life and the growth, in turn, is creating the further problem of silting. This lake is a shallow one so that the silting is causing grave concern to the tourist interests in the whole region as well as to the clubs and associations who promote the use of the Corrib for recreational purposes and for those who participate in all kinds of water sports. The silting is most serious at the point where the lake flows into the river. The problem has become so bad that passage of keel boats from the river to the lake is very difficult. Were it not for a commercial concern who operate a water bus between the city and Annaghdown, many local people believe that it would be impossible for a water boat to make its way from the river into the lake. The action of the propellors of the water bus helps to keep the silt clear in one small central channel.

As this growth in weeds restricts seriously the movements of all boats on the surface of the water, fishing is affected, too. The problem has reached an alarming proportion and the tragedy is that there is nobody dealing with it. The matter has been raised at meetings of Galway County Council in whose local authority the lake is. They have certain responsibilities in this regard but the county manager has stated that he has no statutory authority for the expenditure of any moneys on the clearing of silt from the lower lake. The Office of Public Works who carried out a major drainage scheme in the Galway area some years ago and who have been maintaining it since, have informed me by letter that they had no responsibility in the matter, that they are obliged only to comply with certain Acts and that under those Acts their responsibility does not extend to the removing of silt of the type I have mentioned.

Another authority with certain responsibilities in the area is the Corrib Navigation Board but they claim that this problem is not their responsibility, that they are responsible only for the navigation channel which, as I have explained, has been kept open as a result of the action of one boat. Any deviation from that narrow channel would put a boat in difficulty. Lake Corrib is one of the finest lakes in Europe but it is deteriorating rapidly. In these circumstances I am making a special plea to the Minister, having regard to the concern expressed by him on several occasions both in this House and outside it and having regard, too, to the statement made by Mr. P.V. Doyle as Chairman of Bord Fáilte. He indicates in their annual report that the board seem to realise at last that this is an area where they must become active, where they must show an interest and make a financial contribution if many of the pollution and silting problems are to be dealt with.

Lake Corrib is dying a slow death which is being watched in great silence by the public bodies. I hope that the Minister will have this whole matter examined and that he will allocate to Bord Fáilte a proportion of these moneys for the purpose of dealing with this problem. The work will involve heavy capital expenditure because of the heavy machinery that will be required to carry out the work successfully. If any action taken by the Minister achieves such an outcome, he will get the appreciation he deserves from all concerned.

There is a similar dilemma in respect of the rivers that flow through Galway city. Again, nobody has responsibility for dealing with the situation and public bodies there are reluctant to spend their funds in case they are surcharged for spending money on works in respect of which they have not statutory authority.

Galway was built on a series of rivers many of which are underneath the buildings but some of those that are exposed and which flow freely through that old and beautiful city are going into decay because of excessive weed growth. I ask Bord Fáilte to interest themselves in this problem and to have it attended to fairly soon. That is the main point I wish to make and if it is dealt with we shall all be very grateful to the Minister.

Such items as amenities and expenditure of a capital nature are included here. I cannot let this occasion pass without making a special plea to the Minister to look into the position of the Connemara Golf Club, a club that was built mostly from funds collected locally and which is the major tourist amenity that has been provided locally—everything else was natural. The local people showed great initiative in making this lovely golf course at Ballyconnelly. I have been amazed that during the past two-and-a-half years the Minister has refused to make grants available to help this club remain open, especially in view of the need in the area for that type of facility where practically the whole population are dependent in varying degrees on tourism.

I understand, too, that the Minister has refused to sanction a grant to the Oughterard Golf Club which is a very similar case to the one at Ballyconnelly. Yet, not so many months ago we read that the Taoiseach attended in Westport at the opening of a golf course to which Bord Fáilte gave a grant in the region of £200,000. Nothing like that is required for the Connemara Golf Club at Ballyconnelly. I appeal to the Minister, when these funds are at his disposal, to pay the grants that are morally due to the Connemara Golf Club and also to pay the grants to the Oughterard Golf Club, which was put there because of the encouragement of Bord Fáilte. Since the golf course was first thought of the idea was pushed ahead by representatives of Bord Fáilte. I understand that not one penny of a grant has been paid.

The Connemara and Galway people have tried to provide those golf courses to help their own tourist amenities. In recent years people have been going for a more active type holiday. When local people, through financial sacrifices, are providing those facilities it seems very strange that Bord Fáilte are not participating in those developments. The local people in Connemara have done far more than Bord Fáilte have done.

What part of this increased capital investment will go towards the development of fish rearing stations, fish development stations, salmon hatcheries and projects of this kind? The fishing industry is playing a vital part in relation to tourism. While we advertise that fishing is available, it is well-known that salmon stocks are in danger. It seems a waste advertising that salmon fishery is available if the stocks are depleted and if no capital investment has been made by Bord Fáilte and other responsible bodies to restock salmon fisheries. Will any part of this completely inadequate capital be put into the provision of salmon rearing stations and salmon hatcheries in order to press on with the further development of our salmon and trout fisheries?

With regard to the point made by Deputy Daly salmon stocks and salmon fisheries are the responsibility of the Inland Fisheries Trust. Bord Fáilte could not use the money from this fund for that. With regard to what Deputy Molloy said, I am not quite sure about Lough Corrib. One of the questions which comes to mind is how did the silting occur? What prevented the lakes silting for thousands of years?

The drainage scheme.

The drainage scheme has ruined the lake. I do not know anything about it but I will ask Bord Fáilte to see if they could help to provide money to stop this silting. They would be very concerned to see that the lakes are suitable for fishing and also that they are not silted up to make them unusable for boating.

As regards the Connemara Golf Club, they got a grant from Bord Fáilte and also got a grant from the fund administered by the Central Development Committee in the Department of Finance.

How much did they get?

I do not know as I have not the figures here. I know they got two grants. Bord Fáilte have told me that some years ago because of their interest in golfing and setting up a circuit of golf courses of championship level around the country they provided golf course funds. They have now stopped because they feel that there are sufficient golf courses in the country. I will speak to them again about this. I admire the spirit of the people in Clifden and around that area who made this golf course. I am not a golfer but I understand it is one of the finest golf courses in the country and a real challenge to golfers. Bord Fáilte have officially closed the fund out of which they helped golf courses.

The Bord Fáilte decision to officially cease paying grants to golf courses was made before the Connemara Golf Club received their grant. They already have paid a grant subsequent to their decision not to pay grants. This was done because of a decision made during the time of the last Government when the Minister intervened in the matter. That is publicly known. That grant was not adequate and subsequent grants are warranted.

I understand that the Minister met a deputation from the Connemara Golf Club last year. They are in a very serious financial position, which is nearly as bad as the one the Tánaiste seems to be in. They are carrying very heavy bank overdrafts and very heavy commitments to the loans despite the fact that over £20,000 was collected locally in a very poor area. The people concerned with this golf course have told me that they got nowhere with the representations made to the Minister. The Minister has plenty of money available under this Bill to meet the small needs of the Connemara Golf Club so he should take them out of the financial straitjacket they are in. If this golf course does not get some help it will have to close. The banks are keeping it open.

Did the Minister say that Bord Fáilte are not giving any more golf grants to amenity areas? I am concerned with such an area 20 miles from Galway and also the same distance from Ennis where the people went to a lot of expense to buy land to develop it into a golf course. They did this on the assumption that they would get a grant from Bord Fáilte. It is beside Lady Gregory's place at Gort. Am I to assume that Bord Fáilte will give no further grants for golf courses? I hope this is not the case.

It is the case.

The area I am speaking about is an amenity area. I wrote to Bord Fáilte about a grant for this area and they did not refuse it. We certainly assumed there was no problem about getting a grant because nearly every golf course around the country, which was in an area like the one I am talking about, got a grant. If no more grants are to be provided by Bord Fáilte, I ask the Minister to reconsider the matter in relation to this particular area.

Mr. Kitt

In relation to the point the Minister made about Lough Corrib, a lot of finger pointing is going on in my constituency, although Lough Corrib is not in it, in relation to certain factories and business houses. They are getting the blame for the pollution in Lough Corrib. We should really be talking about preventing the pollution and trying to learn a little more about it because we do not seem to know a lot about it at the moment. I suggest that research projects be undertaken so that we can learn a little more about pollution. In this way we would not be blaming the innocent people.

Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 3.
Question proposed: "That section 3 stand part of the Bill."

In order to qualify for a grant for reconstruction a hotel must be classified by Bord Fáilte and be in a position to produce audited accounts but the Minister should recommend that in certain areas not traditional tourist areas—I am speaking about premises that cater for visiting anglers—money should be made available without such people having to comply with all the regulations. While I admit we have a lot of accommodation available for tourists, there are many people who would be interested in improving their premises with a view to catering for visiting anglers. A large contingent of seasoned anglers arrived in my county recently and they could be accommodated in the type of premises I have in mind.

Has the Minister approved of the scheme formulated by Bord Fáilte in connection with grants? Broadly speaking, this scheme does not deal fairly with those who expended money on their premises in the past. I believe that if the owner of a hotel does not expend 5 per cent of his turnover, he will not qualify for a grant under the new scheme.

I understand that the section we are dealing with concerns the allocation of grants for holiday accommodation.

That is what I am talking about.

Whether or not 5 per cent has been spent, the hotelier qualifies.

It is the opposite and one is not victimised?

Yes. The people referred to by Deputy Leonard can be catered for in this scheme.

What they did in the past should not be relevant in qualifying for a grant now. Irrespective of how they found the money, if the work is essential they should qualify.

There is some confusion here. It does not matter whether a hotelier has never spent money on his hotel in the past. He would qualify if he is now prepared to spend 5 per cent and half this will be paid by Bord Fáilte. It is not necessary that he should have spent money previously to qualify now for the assistance. People catering for anglers can be accommodated under this section.

Does Bord Fáilte examine each tourist under the heading "accommodation" so that each region will have farmhouse accommodation, guesthouses, small hotels and hotels of the various grades? Do they carry out such an examination so that each region will have a good mix? I am thinking of people who have not a personal interest in the tourist industry but are concerned that in the lakeland district there is not a grade A hotel. Is the mix taken account of?

The mix is taken account of under the new tourist development plan Bord Fáilte will be producing in the new year. It will be given greater consideration than heretofore. The country will be broken into regions and Bord Fáilte will be examining each region in conjunction with the local authorities and the local tourist boards to see what is missing in the regions. The fact that there is not a top hotel in the lakeland region has been mentioned by the Deputy but Bord Fáilte would not establish such a hotel from the ground up; a proposal would have to be put before them by somebody else before they would help.

It the Minister talking about the existing regions when he mentions the new development plan?

No. There will be new regions and they overlap to a great extent. There are only eight existing regions but nearly 90 new zones are proposed.

Will they cross each other?

They will but they can all be changed through time.

Why not stick to the existing regions?

Because on occasions there is an overlap. For instance, the Killimer car ferry service runs from Clare, which is in the Mid-Western region into Kerry which is in the Ivernia region and there is an overlap there. The people in Tarbert and Killimer would have an interest in the car ferry service but they are in different tourist regions.

What role does Bord Fáilte play after grants have been paid to hoteliers? I am interested in a big hotel in Kilkee which has been closed for a number of years and I understand that Bord Fáilte gave a generous grant to that hotel. What effort does Bord Fáilte make after the grant has been paid to see that the money has been well spent?

One of the conditions is that the premises are retained as a hotel for ten years. I am aware of the premises the Deputy has mentioned but if there is no effort made to sell such a premises and it shuts down there is not much that can be done about that. The situation in Kilkee is terrible and I believe good use could be made of the premises. It is a shame to see a building like that deteriorating and being closed for four years.

Bord Fáilte should take some initiative in this matter.

They have, unsuccessfully.

Since the order for the late sitting was moved by the Taoiseach I have been asked by Members of my party the reason why this Bill has to be passed tonight.

I do not think it has but the order coming after this Bill must be passed by tonight; the order in relation to University College, Cork. We must get this Bill out of the way before we can proceed to the next business.

Yesterday evening the Whips Office asked me for a guarantee that this Bill would be given tonight. The Whip's information from the Minister for Transport and Power was that this Bill must be passed this week but I can see nothing in the Bill to indicate any urgency.

It must be passed because it is ordered for the Seanad tomorrow. From a technical point of view there is nothing urgent about it; it must be passed before the end of this session.

I should like to protest at the House being asked to sit until 2 a.m. to clear this. There is no reason why the other business could not have been fitted in before this Bill.

I was informed that this Bill would be taken at 7.30 p.m. With due respect, the Deputy is more responsible than I for ordering the business.

Surely the Government are not trying to blame the Opposition for this.

No, I am not.

The issue being raised now would more appropriately have been dealt with when the motion was moved for the late sitting.

Question put and agreed to.
Section 4 agreed to.
SECTION 5.
Question proposed: "That section 5 stand part of the Bill."

Would the Minister explain what is entailed in the amendment of section 5?

The amendment is consequential on section 4. Section 11 of the Tourist Traffic Act, 1939, provides that the remuneration and allowances paid to the board's officers and servants shall be determined by the board. The effect of this section is to exclude from the provisions of section 11 of the 1939 Act the determination of the remuneration and allowances of the board's chief officer. In future his remuneration and allowance will be determined in accordance with section 4 of the Bill. Having catered for the determination of his salary in section 4, you must have another section to exclude him from the 1939 Act which determines how it shall be paid.

It excludes the chief executive officer?

Question put and agreed to.
Section 6 agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

Would the Minister give a reply to the question I posed earlier: does he anticipate any worthwhile injection of capital through legislation to industry to help a recovery programme which the Government must undertake by way of national planning for the future?

We have just voted extra capital for Bord Fáilte.

It barely meets——

In Fianna Fáil terms what we voted here is about five times what the previous Government gave.

It would need to be 20 times that amount to pay for the amount of work to be done.

Will the Deputy vote for the taxation necessary to provide the extra money?

The Minister need not try to frighten us with taxation. He has been playing that game all around the country for the past few weeks. Why did he not talk about it before the by-election? He is talking about taxation every day now.

Is that the thorn under your nail?

I want to know if, in the context of an overall national plan which is desperately needed at the moment, will there be a tourist plan into which real money will be injected?

The last Administration voted £8 million in 16 years. We are voting almost £5 million for two to three years. That is a significant increase.

There is no point in the Minister arguing how much the last Administration provided. They provided money when the economy was rapidly expanding——

Why did they not supply more money?

We have a crisis situation now. What will the Government do? Is there a plan?

Yes, we have just passed it.

I would remind the House that on the Fifth Stage speeches are confined to what is contained in the Bill and Members may speak only once.

Question put and agreed to.
Barr
Roinn