asked the Minister for Labour the number of women workers who are affected by the Government decision to curtail the operations of the equal pay extension; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Equal Pay Extension.
2.
To be within the scope of the Anti-Discrimination (Pay) (Amendment) Bill the trade unions and employers in a particular firm will need to agree formally that the introduction of the principle of equal pay in the firm or business would lead to unemployment. The Labour Court will also, after investigation, have to authenticate the agreement of the trade unions and employers. The agreement of trade unions or workers is therefore necessary before any proposal to defer equal pay can be successful.
It is not possible at this stage to estimate the number of firms involved or the number of women workers who are likely to be affected by the Bill. My own view is that because of the extremely stringent conditions the number of workers will be very small.
Do I understand the Bill will be produced tomorrow?
That is the intention.
Does the Minister think the Bill will do anything to restore the credibility of the Oireachtas after the Minister's complete failure in this whole matter?
I do not know if the Deputy was listening to the reply. The amendment will give power to the trade unions in a firm in which the workers organised in that firm feel there is a threat to their jobs arising out of the immediate implementation of the Act to veto the immediate implementation of the Act. If the Deputy is saying they should not have that power that is another matter.
All the Minister is doing is holding up Parliament by his silly antics. The point is on 1st August last year——
A question, please, Deputy.
Parliament agreed to your measure and for some reason the Minister opted out of the whole thing and threw it over on the trade unions and workers.
I think the problem the Deputy has is that his supplementary questions are based on a different estimation of the whole matter.
Would the Minister explain, first of all, what will happen in the event of no agreement being reached? Secondly, how can he hope to defend the case that will be taken to the European Commission in view of the fact that so little information appears to be available to him as to the number of workers involved in the private sector? Does it not appear that no research has been done either by him or his Department into the problems that exist in this area?
No. I think it is better sometimes in the interests of accuracy to describe things as they are. The exemption gives power to unions in firms where jobs are threatened to avail of the exemption. It is not for me to say how many firms will avail of this exemption. That is a matter for the organised workers to say. In relation to the other part of the question relating to agreement with Brussels, this necessity is of course there and, if the authorities in Brussels think it should not be there for organised workers, then of course the Act will apply to the full extent.
This trying to project that somebody is denying something to organised workers is a futile exercise. Is it not true to say the Minister and his Government have reneged on the legislation passed in 1974? That is basically what we are talking about now.
I think the Deputy should consult a different script. What he has been saying is not applicable to the answer I have given.
How is it not applicable?
Just get a different script.
I do not think the Minister answered the first part of the Deputy's question. What happens in the event of the employer being unable to pay and the unions being unwilling to accept the employer's offer?
As I explained, if the organised workers do not agree there is a case for exemption the Act applies.
Who will be prosecuted then?
There will be no prosecution.
If the employer pays too much will he not contravene the Act and, if he does not want to pay too much, what effect will the Act have on him?
The amendment simply gives authority to organised workers to seek exemption from the full implementation of the legislation. That is the only right it gives them. If they do not seek such a right then the Act applies.
What does the Act do?
It provides equal pay for work of equal value.
Is this another example of the Government not thinking through their policies?
We have thought right through our policies. The problem for the Opposition is they would want to think through their questions.
3.
asked the Minister for Labour the number of women employed in the private sector under the various categories; and the number likely to receive a new rate for the job as a result of the introduction of equal pay.
The answer to the first part of the question regarding the number of women employed in the private sector under the various categories is in the form of a tabular statement and, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to circulate the information in the Official Report. The information has been extracted from the census of population, 1971, and relates to females at work classified by industrial group.
With regard to the second part of the question, I should point out that in order to come within the scope of the Anti-Discrimination (Pay) Act, 1974, and thus have a legal entitlement to equal pay, a woman would require to be engaged on like work with men in the same employment. It is not possible at this stage to estimate the number of women involved.
Following is the statement.
Census of population of Ireland, 1971. Volume III, Industries
Females at Work Classified by Industrial Group.
|
Industrial group |
Persons |
Males |
Females |
|
Agriculture, Forestry and Fishing |
273,079 |
247,585 |
25,494 |
|
Mining, Quarrying and Turf Production |
10,420 |
10,117 |
303 |
|
Manufacturing Industries |
213,633 |
148,563 |
65,070 |
|
Food, beverages and tobacco |
51,135 |
37,872 |
13,263 |
|
Textiles, clothing, footwear and leather |
54,388 |
23,474 |
30,914 |
|
Wood and wood products |
12,153 |
11,168 |
985 |
|
Paper, paper products, printing and publishing |
17,371 |
12,231 |
5,140 |
|
Chemical, rubber |
|||
|
and plastic products |
15,239 |
11,331 |
3,908 |
|
Glass, pottery and cement |
11,567 |
10,256 |
1,311 |
|
Metals, metal products and machinery |
31,756 |
25,358 |
6,398 |
|
Transport equipment |
12,353 |
11,739 |
614 |
|
Other manufacturing industries |
7,671 |
5,134 |
2,537 |
|
Building and Construction |
84,533 |
82,856 |
1,677 |
|
Electricity, Gas and Water Supply |
14,163 |
13,119 |
1,044 |
|
Commerce |
148,286 |
101,863 |
46,423 |
|
Insurance, Finance and Business Services |
23,992 |
14,384 |
9,608 |
|
Transport, Communication and Storage |
60,122 |
50,589 |
9,533 |
|
Public Administration and Defence |
48,869 |
37,322 |
11,547 |
|
Professional Services |
109,078 |
44,558 |
64,520 |
|
Personal Services |
54,441 |
16,747 |
37,694 |
|
Recreational Services |
10,851 |
6,632 |
4,219 |
|
Other Industries or Industry not stated |
3,372 |
2,172 |
1,200 |
|
Total All Industries |
1,054,839 |
776,507 |
278,332 |
In view of the fact that this legislation has been on the statute book since 1974 and the Minister has for the past two months and more been telling us he intends amending it, is it not strange that at this stage there is such little information available to him as to the number likely to be affected and is it not also true that one report on which he has based the amending of this legislation is not, in fact, an accurate report? In view of that it appears the Minister in this entire area——
A question, please.
Is it not true that the Minister in this entire area absolutely does not know where he is going? Neither he nor his Government has any idea of the confusion they are now making? Why is there not more information available basically?
I have already given the information requested.
Would the Minister agree that in the absence of up-to-date census returns he will find it more difficult to keep tabs on these matters which are of vital importance?
I answered that when I dealt with manpower problems. We will not find the census question impeding our work in that area. We keep up-to-date by various surveys when required.