asked the Minister for Social Welfare the number of people in receipt of (a) contributory old age pensions and (b) non-contributory old age pensions who have not yet attained the age of 70 years; and the total cost to the Exchequer of both (a) and (b).
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Old Age Pensions.
36.
The number of persons under 70 years of age in receipt of old age contributory pension at 31 January 1978 was approximately 27,000 and the estimated cost to the Exchequer at current rates of pension is £5 million.
In the case of non-contributory old age pensions the approximate number of pensioners is 36,000 and the cost to the Exchequer is £24 million.
Is it Government's intention to increase the social welfare payments next October?
There is no such decision.
Would the Minister not agree that in view of the precedent set in this regard during the past few years it is a retrograde step not to give an increase in October this year?
No, I do not. The precedent to which the Deputy refers was a mechanism introduced by the Coalition Government to try to cope with the rampant inflation which was raging at that time. It is simply an indicator of the extent to which inflation was raging that there had to be these two increases in the two years concerned. At present the rate of inflation is decreasing very satisfactorily and my calculations are that the 10 per cent increase granted in April will work out at an increase of 6 per cent in real terms in 1978.
Would the Minister not agree that his reply is somewhat at variance with the statement he made in connection with the innovation of the October increase when he welcomed it in principle and said that it was a very desirable and necessary development which he hoped would be continued?
Deputy Cluskey will appreciate that there is nothing on the Order Paper about the question which I am permitting.
The increase was necessary at that time because of the level at which inflation was raging.
Would the Minister agree that contributory old age pensioners are getting, relatively, a very much smaller contribution from the Exchequer towards their pensions, and that in view of the fact that they have been subscribing to the fund throughout their working lives there is a case for doing something for contributory old age pensioners?
Traditionally contributory old age pensioners fare better in regard to rates that non-contributory old age pensioners. Is that what the Deputy has in mind?
No. The figures indicate that 27,000 contributory old age pensioners are getting £5 million from the Exchequer and 36,000 non-contributory old age pensioners are getting £24 million. In terms of Exchequer contribution the contributory old age pensioner is getting very significantly less. Would the Minister agree that there seems to be a case for investigating whether full justice is being done to the contributory old age pensioner?
I do not know if the Deputy understands the position. The non-contributory old age pension comes entirely from the Exchequer, while the contributory old age pension is paid for in the main by the pensioner himself during the course of his working life.
It is still a State scheme.