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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 24 May 1978

Vol. 306 No. 11

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Women's Prison.

18.

asked the Minister for Justice if, in view of the deplorable conditions prevailing there, he will close the women's prison in Mountjoy jail, Dublin.

19.

asked the Minister for Justice if he will cancel plans to build a women's prison at Kilbarrack, Dublin, and retain the site as an amenity area for local children.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 18 and No. 19 together.

It will not be possible to close the existing women's prison in Mountjoy until a new women's prison has been provided.

A site for a new prison in Kilbarrack, Sutton, was purchased in 1972 but because of the opposition of some local interests, who have been proposing that the site be used as an amenity area for local children, a final decision on the matter has not been taken.

I believe that there is a need for a new women's prison but, even if a decision as to a site was taken soon, it would be a few years before building could be completed and the prison brought into operation. In the meantime, although there are limits to what can be done because of the age and lay-out of the buildings, I am arranging to have the existing prison improved.

Would the Minister not agree that if one looks at the crime reports the type of crime for which women are in jail fall into three relatively trivial categories, drunkenness, soliciting and larceny and in the circumstances that some other more humane way could meet the needs of these ladies in their distress, such as supervision after sentence by the court or the extension of the use of hostels rather than putting them in jail for such negligible crimes? Even the figures are small.

The main categories of women in prison are as follows: soliciting, drunkenness and vagrancy 35 per cent, offences against the person 8 per cent, offences against property with violence 13 per cent, offences against property without violence 29 per cent, fraud 3 per cent and under the heading of "others"—and this covers a very wide area—12 per cent. I understand that generally speaking the courts commit women to custody only as a last resort. It is probable that, if a women's prison were available with all modern treatment facilities, in an effort to help them the number of women committed to custody would be greater.

Would the Minister not agree that in relation to women there is the special question of children being involved, the break-up of the family and separation of the children from the mother, creates a special problem which could be better handled by a more humane approach, such as an increase in the number of welfare officers, the provision of ready access to the family and coming into the prisons for work daily, in other words, any other way but total isolation from the family? In this way we are creating another generation of alcoholics, female prostitutes and so on, in these disturbed children.

I have admitted that the present building used as a female prison is not one of which any of us could be proud. Whatever help is to be given to these unfortunate people we would have a better chance of helping them if the prison was a modern building where more facilities could be provided. I cannot say that I believe there is not a need for a women's prison.

Has the Minister any idea how long it will be before a new prison is provided?

A site of six-and-a-half acres at Kilbarrack, Sutton, for the building of a prison was purchased in October 1972. This Government and the previous Government ran into many difficulties with regard to getting this project started. Unfortunately the site, which was zoned for industrial purposes, is in the centre of Kilbarrack Estate, which has about 3,000 houses. It is the only six-and-a-half green acres left there and it is being sought after very strongly by the people as an amenity centre for the children. I met these people and listened to their objections and I can see their point of view. Since I met them the Board of Works and officials from my Department have been trying desperately to get another site. We have failed up to now but within the last week we have made reasonable progress. We hope we are on to something that will materialise and if so I would be prepared to ask the Government to give us the green light to go ahead on the new site straight away. The plans are ready to go ahead if we can get the site and the money.

Would the Minister agree that he received a deputation from the Kilbarrack and District Community Association concerning this matter and that he agreed to review the matter sympathetically because of the facts presented by the Community Association concerning the limited facilities available for children? In view of the very limited facilities available, where for instance there are 82 Soccer and Gaelic teams with only one pitch, I would be very grateful if the Minister would tell us what progress has been made to date in the efforts to find an alternative site? The community appreciate the approach which the Minister is taking to this problem.

The Board of Works and officials of my Department have been trying on the commercial market for an alternative site for this prison. Up to recently they have failed. I hope to go officially to the Dublin County Council and Dublin Corporation shortly to seek their help in obtaining a piece of ground which I understand they own. I accept that the siting of the prison in the centre of a housing estate at Kilbarrack would not be very wise, proper or desirable.

Have the ladies who are in this jail to continue to exist in what are generally accepted to be deplorable conditions for two, three, five or more years? Surely that is a shameful reflection on the State and on the activities of successive Governments over a long time.

I assure the Deputy that I am concerned about conditions that exist in the women's prison and that I am doing everything I can personally and departmentally, as Minister, to do something about it.

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