It is proposed to take business in the following order: Nos. 3, 6 (resumed) and 7, in No. 7 Votes 40, 44, 37, 38, 47, 49 and 29. I will intervene at 12 noon to make a statement on the European Council meeting on Monday and Tuesday of this week.
Order of Business.
When is it proposed to publish the White Paper and when is it proposed to have the EMS debate as promised? I understand the Taoiseach is making a statement on the European Council meeting today. But the time remaining after the normal time for the adjournment up to Christmas is quite short and we would need to know the Taoiseach's intentions with regard to this.
I indicated publicly that there would be a debate on the EMS next week. I am not in a position yet to indicate how long the Dáil is likely to sit. If there was an agreement that we should finish our sittings by the end of next week I would suggest that we have the adjournment debate in conjunction with the EMS debate, if there was a desire for an adjournment debate. This matter could be arranged by the Whips. In that event, because of business that would have to be taken on Tuesday, possibly a start could be made on Wednesday morning.
What is the present position regarding our possible entry into the EMS? It is very difficult at this stage to know what precisely the Government's attitude is.
I will be making a statement on that.
Will the Government make up their minds and announce publicly whether they are accepting entry or not?
The Deputy can wait until it arises.
I accept that, but it is very pertinent to the question of whether we have a full scale debate next week before the Government have made up their mind as to whether we are going in. Will the Government again state that as they are still in a negotiating position it would inhibit discussion here and would inhibit the Taoiseach from being more forthcoming than one would wish?
I have to answer the question from Deputy FitzGerald. It is hoped to publish a paper as early as possible next week—I hope Monday.
Combining the two debates is totally unacceptable and quite improper. The debate on the EMS is an immensely important debate. If despite all that has happened in Brussels there remains a possibility that we might enter at some stage, in the light of some modification of terms or without them, this must be discussed in the Dáil separately. It would be inconceivable that Parliament would discuss this as part of an adjournment debate.
If it is not possible to have it with the adjournment debate next week it would have to be debated during the week up to Christmas.
That may well be the case, depending on the time table of the EMS debate. We understood that the other White Paper on the economy was to be published on either 6 or 8 December. What is the position about that and when will the debate take place on it?
I cannot say exactly when it will be published. The Deputy will appreciate that because of other pressures it was not possible to make the progress on the White Paper that we had intended, but it will certainly be published before Christmas. That would not permit a debate on it before Christmas seeing that we could have two other major debates. The Deputy will certainly have it before Christmas.
(Interruptions.)
Surely if it is published before the adjournment of the Dáil the debate could be included in the adjournment.
The Deputy does not want other things included in the adjournment debate. He can not have everything.
During an adjournment debate surely the White Paper which was promised by the Government for early autumn would be a very desirable input into that debate.
I am not certain if we can publish it in time for a debate next week or the week after. I hope it will be published before Christmas, but whether it would be feasible to have a debate on it before Christmas is another matter.
It is disturbing that it was to be published in the autumn and it is in doubt even at the end of December. It is not clear why the EMS discussion should have caused that delay. If through the failure of the Government to produce it in time it is not available for the adjournment debate, can I take it that we will have an option to debate the White Paper at the beginning of the next session and that we will not be told then that it is to be taken with the budget? This sweeping of everything under different carpets is not a satisfactory procedure.
The Deputy has had some experience of publishing White and Green Papers. The Deputy will remember that we had to wait from year to year, and not just for a month or so, for the publication of a paper like this. I am sure that the Deputy, appreciating the difficulties, will understand that we have some small problems but that there is no question but that the paper will be published before Christmas.
(Interruptions.)
Could we have a debate on it at the beginning of the new session before we get involved in budget matters? That is what I asked.
If I say "yes", the Deputy will try to fix me to it if other difficulties arise.
(Interruptions.)
Order, please.
Will the Taoiseach agree that the same thing arose over the Green Paper, that the Taoiseach promised the House there would be a debate on the Green paper and then said that it could not take place because we were discussing the budget?
We will start on today's business. Item No. 3.
The Taoiseach was in the process of replying to me.
(Interruptions.)
The Taoiseach is an authority on what is not true. He can ask any member of the Press Gallery.
You can have it. I am not going to answer any more questions.
The Taoiseach was in the process of answering a question of some importance about the availability of time for a debate on the White Paper.
The Deputy's Front Bench kept interrupting me and then Deputy Cluskey intervened.
The interruptions did not come from there. Another question was asked before the Taoiseach was able to answer and that confused the issue. This is an important question which the Taoiseach was in the process of answering. I would be grateful if the Taoiseach would complete the answer in relation to having the debate.
It is hoped to have the White Paper published before Christmas. But, even if it is, it is unlikely that a debate will take place on it. In that event the debate will have to take place in the new year. I will consider then whether it will be possible to divorce the debate on the White Paper from the budget debate. I will accommodate Deputies opposite to the fullest possible extent that time will permit.
The Taoiseach will appreciate that it is possible to separate the two——
I am not a prophet. I cannot say.
The Taoiseach just happens to be in charge of the Order of Business. It is possible to separate the two if the Taoiseach holds the White Paper debate before the budget. Then, obviously, the budget cannot get confused with the White Paper. That means that the Dáil would have to return a couple of days earlier than it would otherwise do.
(Interruptions.)
Excuse me, would the Chair control that side of the House?
(Interruptions.)
I am asking a question of the Taoiseach and I am entitled to do so.
(Interruptions.)
Order, Order.
Will the Chair ask the Minister concerned not to interrupt me?
The Chair asked our people not to interrupt, will he now ask the Minister not to interrupt?
I have asked everybody not to interrupt.
The Chair has not asked the two Ministers concerned not to interrupt.
When I ask for order in the House I expect it from all.
It would be helpful if the Ceann Comhairle occasionally looked in that direction because that is where the trouble is coming from.
It is reasonable to say that the two can be divorced if we have the White Paper debate before the budget debate. Therefore, the only question is: will the Dáil, if necessary, meet a couple of days earlier to have the White Paper debate, which it is essential to have before we get mixed up in the budget? The budget is a short term matter for one year whereas the White Paper relates to a period of years and should, if there is anything in it at all, deserve full and proper debate.
The Deputy should not be so insistent about the publication of White Papers having regard to the debacle of his own Government.
That is not a very clever answer. The word "debacle" does not sound very well coming from that side of the House.
When can we expect publication of the Inland Fisheries Bill?
In a matter of days.
With the permission of the Chair, I propose to raise on the adjournment the subject matter of my questions on the Taoiseach's attitude to the administration, control and policy of the Government Information Service.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
(Cavan-Monaghan): I would like to raise on the adjournment the action of the Minister for the Environment in directing local authorities to postpone until the new year their estimates meetings without any apparent legal authority.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
I wish to raise on the adjournment the decision of Coal Distributors to hold on to their existing stocks of English coal pending a decision by the Prices Commission on their application for a price increase.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.