Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 14 Dec 1978

Vol. 310 No. 9

Adjournment Debate. - Human Rights Violations.

On 23 November I asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if, in view of the allegations of continual violations of human rights by the British administration in the Six Counties, the Government are prepared to institute proceedings against the British Government before the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. The Minister replied in the following terms:

The protection of the human and civil rights of all the people of Northern Ireland [that is the same as the Six Counties] is a matter which the Government consider to be of fundamental importance and all developments relating to the question are kept under close and constant review with a view to appropriate action whenever this is considered necessary.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs further stated in column 1796, Volume 309 of the Official Report:

Before the Government can move or should move they should be satisfied that sufficient evidence is available from people who have communicated with them. The Deputy will perhaps be aware that on the last occasion there was a very wide range of information from very authoritative sources who requested this action. That position does not obtain at the moment.

The Minister also said:

The Government are not at present contemplating proceedings of the kind referred to by the Deputy. The Deputy will of course be aware that it is open to any person in Northern Ireland who considers that he or she may have a case to initiate such proceedings on an individual basis.

The Minister's refusing or declining to institute any such proceedings at this time is because he does not have the sort of situation or the sort of information being fed or communicated to him by people concerned as he had on the previous occasion when we successfully took Britain to the court and exposed her for what she is. I would ask the Minister what he is short of at this stage. Is it not well known that things are, if anything, worse now than at the time of the much merited case he and his predecessors in Government took to the Court of Human Rights?

The fact that a man refuses to wear prison uniform or to do prison work should not entail the loss of physical exercise or association with fellow prisoners or contact with the outside world. These are human needs for physical and mental health, not privileges to be handed out as rewards or withheld as punishments. Prisoners have complained to their visitors in the hell hole which is Long Kesh and the source could not be more authoritative than that which I quoted the last time I spoke on the matter of Long Kesh. That source is the Archbishop of Armagh, Dr. Ó Fiaich. As a result of his visit to Long Kesh on Sunday, 30 July, during which he witnessed the sad spectacle of the brutalising of prisoners, he said that several prisoners complained to him of beatings, of verbal abuse, of additional punishment for making complaints in cold cells without even a mattress and of degrading searches carried out on the most intimate parts of their naked bodies. Perhaps that would not be enough.

Let us ask ourselves what is the condition of these prisoners, despite this inhuman treatment. The Archbishop said:

In the circumstances, I was surprised that the morale of the prisoners was high. From talking to them it is evident that they intend to continue their protest indefinitely and it seems they prefer to face death rather than submit to being classed as criminals. Anyone with the least knowledge of Irish history knows how deeply rooted this attitude is in our country's past.

The Minister, with his background, is as much aware of the truth of that last sentence as anybody in this House and appreciates it fully.

For what reason are these men being treated as they are? The reasons I am giving are not mine. They are being treated in such an inhuman manner because, as the Archbishop stated:

The authorities refuse to admit that these prisoners are in a different category from the ordinary, yet everything about their trials and family background indicates that they are different. They were sentenced by special courts without juries. The vast majority were convicted on allegedly voluntary confessions obtained in circumstances which are now placed under grave suspicion by the recent report of Amnesty International.

That is not my opinion or even the opinion of Archbishop Ó Fiaich. He went on to state:

How can one explain the jump in prison population of Northern Ireland from 500 to 3,000 unless a new type of prisoner has emerged?

Will not the Minister submit to the overwhelming evidence placed before him in the statement issued by the Archbishop after his visit to prisoners in Long Kesh on 30 July? He did not see the Unionist or Loyalist prisoners, though he asked and was refused. We are talking solely about Republican prisoners at this time. The authorities in the prison would not let him see the others. I have quoted extracts from his statement which touch on the fringe of the sad conditions in Long Kesh at present.

We have from the prisoners' relatives the following litany which I want to put on the record of this House, if for no other reason than to try to imprint on the minds of people inside and outside this House the absolutely unbelievable conditions which have been obtaining in Long Kesh for over two years; this is the third year of such conditions for the blanket brigade. The following is a list of what prisoners' relatives consider to be forms of maltreatment:

1. Forcible bathing of prisoners and scrubbing them down with scrubbing brushes.

2. Intimate and internal searching of prisoners going to and from visits.

3. Banging loudly on cell doors throughout the night.

No doubt this is done by prison staff.

4. Continuous use of electric light in cells thus affecting prisoners' eyesight.

5. The removal of their last remaining human possessions within the past few weeks, i.e., combs and toothbrushes.

6. The withholding of some monthly letters written to prisoners.

7. Inadequate food quantity (prisoners are, quite visibly, losing weight).

This has been said by prisoners' relatives, although they have not been seeing the prisoners in recent times, as the Minister is well aware.

8. Leaving prisoners' food on the floor inside cell doors like one would feed a dog.

9. Hosing down the cells, leaving naked prisoners to lie on wet mattresses.

10. Removing prisoners to the punishment cell for three day periods on the slightest pretext.

11. Withholding of all means of mental stimulation, including religious magazines, from the prisoners.

For the record the Deputy should give the documents from which he is quoting. It is the rule of the House.

I am not in any way reflecting on the Chair in this matter. This is a small publication which comes out irregularly. It was published with the authority of two people—and nobody will question their authority in this regard—Fr. Denis Faul and Fr. Raymond Murray and I need not dwell any further on identifying these two men. There is much more in it but I do not have the time now to deal with it. We have the result of the visit of the Archbishop to Long Kesh and a small number of extracts from the statement he issued immediately afterwards and a list of the things the prisoners' relatives have ascertained from their visits to the prison during a long period which they regard as maltreatment, and that is putting it mildly.

Amnesty International have had information available to them, and I am sure they have made this available to the Minister and all who may be concerned about the horrible conditions in Long Kesh. They cannot be regarded as nonauthoritative. They are no less authoritative than was the information available to the Government of the day when we took our case to the Court of Human Rights some years ago. I submit that in the jails in the Six Counties there exist conditions not found anywhere in the world. The grim details are well known, although they have often been repressed so that the demands might not become such that our Government would have to stop their "softly, softly" approach to the British. I do not know what new strategy the Government have got or what they think they will obtain by not doing anything to rock the British boat.

As the Taoiseach refused to answer questions on this matter that had been put down to him during the past two or three months, the Minister is the man on the spot. He carried the weight of the decision to do or not to do something about ending the tragedy that is the prisons of the Six Counties and particularly the hell-hole that is Long Kesh. From information I received from Long Kesh tonight prisoners whose hair has grown down to their waist have been forcibly shaved. This treatment has been given to the prisoners on the blanket. Up to yesterday 80 prisoners have been forcibly "balded"—I would not be surprised to hear that they had been scalped, such is the treatment which has led up to the present situation.

I want the Minister to consider every piece of information he can get on this matter. I want him to study the information that was put on the record by Amnesty International, by Archbishop Ó Fiaich and by the relatives of the prisoners, the last people who have seen them. If he is satisfied after that that there is not a convincing case to be put before the Court of Human Rights, either he or I must admit there is something wrong with our head. Things are so bad they are indescribable. At this time before Christmas, when we are thinking of the comfort and happiness the season may bring, we should think of the conditions under which these people are living. They are now in their third year trying to maintain their sanity in circumstances where it is impossible to believe that humans could maintain their sanity. The Minister should bring to the attention of the British that this Parliament is concerned to the point that it must speak out. If our opinion cannot force the British Government to do something about the matter we should try to ensure that international opinion will succeed.

What is it all about? It is all about status. The only people who can bring an end to this conflict are the jailers, the British. Our prisoners can wear their own clothes. If they could wear their own clothes in the North there would not be any Long Kesh "blanket brigade". There would not be the horrifying pictures that are built up for us by the people who have got information from the inside. Ever present with us is the tragedy that someone will die, and I would ask the Minister to keep that in mind particularly at this time of year. The Minister should realise that while the morale of these prisoners may be kept up, they cannot possibly defeat the one thing that is ever present, namely, that because of their filthy conditions, malnutrition, the cold and all the other factors disease may take them if nothing else does.

In this Irish Parliament we are not really doing anything about it. It is not enough for the Minister to say he does not have sufficient information or communication. If communication from the prisoners in Long Kesh has been bad in the past few years the Minister will probably find good reason for it. There was little welcome for anyone who had any story to bring from Long Kesh in the past seven years, and perhaps the Minister has inherited a situation not of his own making. I ask him to accept that none of the things I have read out here tonight are manufactured. They are as near to the truth as the Minister can get and they are sufficient to brand those who have perpetrated such conditions on other human beings. They must be brought before the only tribunal where they can be exposed for what they are. They are hypocritical people who talk about human and civil rights while inflicting these conditions not only on prisoners in the Six Counties but also on Irish prisoner in jails in Britain who are given different treatment from that given to the ordinary criminals, who are not treated in as bad a way as Irish prisoners.

I appeal to the Minister to look behind the scenes. I appeal to him to ask himself if all of this is sheer fantasy, and if it is not sheer fantasy to accept that it is true. I have no doubt that would move him to expose the situation in order to bring an end to the inhuman and barbarous treatment that is taking place.

As the Deputy has indicated, he brought up this matter first on 23 November, namely, the question of the treatment of prisoners in Long Kesh——

I do not wish to interrupt the Minister, but I must point out that I first raised the matter when it appeared on the Order Paper of 11 October but due to factors I have explained already it did not appear until it came to the Minister's turn because the Taoiseach would not take the question.

I did not mean to make any implication that the question was not put down earlier. I am simply saying that the question came to me on 23 November.

It was on the Order Paper on 11 October.

The Deputy will be aware that this issue was discussed on that date and also that he raised the question of Long Kesh subsequently on the Adjournment. This evening his question relates to whether the Government are prepared to institute proceedings against the British Government before the European Court of Human Rights at Strasbourg. While I know the Deputy may have understandable concern about Long Kesh I would have expected to have heard something more about the suitability of the European Court at Strasbourg to redress whatever grievances real or otherwise that might exist. But the Deputy has repeated what he said on the last occasion even to the extent of quoting from the record the visit last July of Archbishop Ó Fiaich. As I pointed out to the Deputy, people have acknowledged that things have improved in Long Kesh even since September. Since September I and my Department have been in regular contact with the authorities most directly concerned at every level. As a consequence certain reports came to us indicating that the walls and ceilings which had been covered with human excrement were now being cleaned. Deputy Blaney made no reference to this. I expect no plaudits from him for whatever limited success we have.

According to Deputy Blaney, I am the man on the spot in a Government which to him is taking the softly, softly approach. I would again make it clear to Deputy Blaney that the Government are concerned for the protection of the human and civil rights of all the people of Northern Ireland. It is a matter which the Government consider to be of fundamental importance. All developments there are kept under close and constant review. The Deputy will know that on the last occasion when the Government brought a complaint, the complaint was first initiated in December 1971 and the judgment issued in January 1978. Should our concern be to try to make some impact on the problems in Long Kesh or elsewhere, or should we try to make a public case which if it were to follow the pattern of the previous experiences would not relieve the immediate problem? I would make it quite clear to Deputy Blaney that whatever abuses there may be in Britain or elsewhere no blame attaches to this Government for any of the problems that have arisen. To the extent that we have information we pursue inquiries on every occasion and on every possible basis to ensure that all information is fully investigated not just by us but by the responsible people in Northern Ireland so as to try to alleviate any breaches of human rights where they occur. This matter is a constant issue at all levels. I would have discussed this matter with the Secretary of State had I met him as arranged in London on 6 December last. I will pursue it with him amongst a whole range of other things when I meet him in January.

I know we must all be concerned, as I said on the last occasion here, about the fundamental right, the right to live, the right of people wherever they may be to live in peace and to know that they will not be suddenly swept aside by the actions of violent men who apparently have their own strange standards. This is a matter that must be of concern to Deputy Blaney as well.

Am I again getting from the Minister the idea that if there is violence outside it justifies the treatment inside?

Not at all. It might help a better understanding of things if Deputy Blaney just once in a while expressed some little concern for the innocent people who are suddenly attacked and sent to eternity.

With the time I have available in this House?

Even five seconds of the 20 minutes would have been helpful as some gesture of the Deputy's human concern.

I am the only one expressing concern for these other groups in this House.

The Minister to reply.

I do not accept that. For one reason or another recently Deputy Blaney has been expressing concern by raising those matters on the Adjournment. If Deputy Blaney thinks that this is the only basis open to this Government to try to do something to reach an understanding about how people should be treated, he is wrong. It is not just a matter of Government action. Individuals can take action at the Court of Human Rights which is the subject of the Deputy's case.

That is not the answer. That is no excuse.

The Minister to reply. Deputy Blaney had his 20 minutes.

Look, these people are dying and we could talk here until next January.

I did not interrupt Deputy Blaney.

Deputy Blaney came in here and asked a question and had 20 minutes and he should allow the Minister to reply.

(Interruptions.)

Each time Deputy Blaney has come in here, he has mentioned that people are dying and that we will have corpses on our hands next week. Deputy Blaney said that first in November. I am not making an issue of that, but it is easy to appeal to people's emotions when they are concerned. We are all concerned for the plight of prisoners If it appears to the Government that the most effective way to alleviate this problem and all the problems of Northern Ireland is to take the kind of action the Deputy is talking about, the Government will take it, but in the meantime that does not appear to be the way to deal with the whole range of human rights problems in the North of Ireland, above all else the right of people to live and to be free from injury in prison or outside.

When will you get the Brits out?

Deputy Blaney was in Government for a lot longer than I, and I do not recall him saying anything then about getting anybody out.

(Interruptions.)

The Minister should conclude now without interruptions.

I assure the House that the level of our contacts with all ranges of people in the North of Ireland at the moment is wider that it ever was and the level of our information is better than it ever was.

What I am saying is not true, is that what the Minister is saying?

If Deputy Blaney wishes to come before the courts in Strasbourg to give evidence perhaps I can haul him before the court as a witness if he regards himself as such.

The Minister should take it to Strasbourg and it would stop the rot fairly fast.

Before a Government take action against another Government they must be fully satisfied, in the interests of their authority and their standing as a Government, that they have all available evidence. That position obtained in 1971 but it is not the case that exists at the moment. I do not want the Deputy to imply from that that this Government are not concerned.

The Dáil adjourned at 10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Friday, 15 December 1978.

Barr
Roinn