It is proposed to take business in the following order: Nos. 1, 6 (resumed) and 7 (resumed). By agreement there will be no interruption this evening for Private Members' Business.
Order of Business.
I should like to ask the Taoiseach—I indicated to him in advance that I intended putting this question to him—if he would be willing to give Government time for a discussion on industrial relations in the public sector. The Taoiseach will recall that on the last sitting day before Easter this matter was raised and he indicated that if the Health (Family Planning) Bill was finished he would consider the matter. It is likely that that Bill will finish today. In urging consideration of this proposal I should like to add that the Taoiseach will be aware of discussions that took place between spokesmen of the Opposition Parties and the Minister, and the constructive nature of them gives added grounds for having a debate on the subject.
I would like to have an opportunity of looking at the business pending and the urgency of it. I want to consider whether the matter can be debated appropriately with some other items coming before the House in the near future. I suggest that the Deputy raise this matter with me again next week.
The matter is one of great urgency. I had hoped that we would have had an opportunity to debate it this week.
The Taoiseach has given a reply to the Deputy's question; we cannot have a discussion on the matter.
I should like to impress upon the Taoiseach the need for him to examine the position to see whether there is a possibility of discussing it this week.
I would prefer if the Deputy raised it next week.
We asked for this debate three weeks in succession before the Easter Recess. The strike has been going on for many weeks.
I will not allow a debate on this matter. Deputy FitzGerald received a reply to his question from the Taoiseach and the matter is closed.
We have been ruled out of order continually when we sought to have a discussion on urgent national problems.
That is not correct. The Chair is only concerned with matters that are in order and not concerned whether the matters are important, urgent or otherwise. The Chair is concerned only whether the matters are in order and measure up to the requirements of Standing Orders.
We are pressing the Taoiseach for a debate because this matter is urgent and everybody is aware of that.
It is ridiculous for the Taoiseach to suggest that the debate should be put back to next week in view of the postal dispute and the appalling havoc that is being caused by it. The Taoiseach should face up to his responsibility in this matter.
(Interruptions.)
If the Deputy does not accept what I regard as a reasonable response to his Party Leader, then he is free to behave as he likes but if it is so urgent there have been plenty of opportunities to raise this matter in Private Member's Business. However, I am still willing to consider, and consider favourably, the request of the Deputy's leader. The Deputy should leave it at that.
Could we have that debate tomorrow?
No, next week.
It is being put off from week to week and the post accumulates.
It is like Nero fiddling while Rome burns.
A profound statement from the Deputy from South West Cork.
Would the Taoiseach agree that it would be more constructive to discuss with the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs the possibility of a direct meeting between the Minister and the executive of the union?
That is not permissable. We cannot go into this matter at this stage.
I asked the Taoiseach if he would consider that such an approach would be more constructive than a full debate in the House.
The Deputy asked the question in spite of the Chair.
(Cavan-Monaghan): The country expects the House to do something about this matter.
The Chair will not permit Deputy Fitzpatrick to do as he wishes. The Chair will not permit a discussion on this matter now.
(Cavan-Monaghan): It is not good enough for the Chair to sound the gong and try to muzzle the House. The people of the country cannot be muzzled and they want the House to do something about this dispute.
I am not trying to muzzle the House but Deputies must know that matters are either in order or not. I cannot permit a discussion on matters that are not in order.
(Interruptions.)
There is total disorder in the country.
(Cavan-Monaghan): The people cannot understand the attitude of the House. They cannot understand why there is no post, no telephone service and no rubbish being collected.
The country is in chaos.
Deputy Fitzpatrick should resume his seat. If Deputies think they can intimidate the Chair to raise any matters they wish I should like to tell them that I will not permit that. I want to say that as calmly but as definitely as I can.
(Cavan-Monaghan): The Opposition were sent here by the people.
The Opposition have to comply with Standing Orders the same as anybody else and it is the Chair's duty to impose them.
(Interruptions.)
In view of the fact that the Taoiseach has told Deputy FitzGerald that he is considering a debate next week would he care to answer this question? Does he not think it might be more useful if a meeting was held between the appropriate Minister and the representatives of the Post Office Workers Union?
The Deputy is well aware that he is raising a matter which it is not in order to raise. There are times and places where he may seek to raise this but he is well aware that it is not in order to raise it now.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Where are those times and places?
We are in order to press the Taoiseach for a debate. For three weeks before Easter and now again we have asked for this debate and each time the Taoiseach said: "I will consider it next week". Next week is too late for the people who cannot get either post or telephone communications.
(Cavan-Monaghan): They are standing at bus stops for one and a half hours.
This matter has been raised before.
(Interruptions.)
There is not a private employer in the country who would refuse to meet his staff during a ten weeks strike.
(Interruptions.)
Order. Item No. 1.