andMr. White asked the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry the estimated stock of herring in the Celtic Sea, and the estimated quantity taken by foreign trawlers in 1978 when ostensibly fishing for mackerel.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Herring Stocks.
1.
It is estimated that 1,276 tonnes of herring were taken by foreign vessels during 1978-79 season as a by-catch of mackerel fishing which is allowed up to a maximum of 5 per cent. These catches together with an estimated catch of 2,725 tonnes by Irish vessels had the effect of reducing the stock by the end of the season to an estimated 5,000-6,000 tonnes.
The minimum stock level recommended by the scientists before fishing is allowed to resume is 40,000 tonnes. It will be seen therefore that this stock is in a very critical state and that any fishing effort at this stage will seriously prejudice the recovery of this herring fishery.
The Minister has stated that 1,276 tons were supposed to have been taken. The Dutch have permission to fish up to 5 per cent. Is the Minister aware that the Dutch and other EEC boats are supposed to be catching a much larger percentage? What proof has the Minister that it is not 500,000 tonnes because the Dutch catch herrings and cover them up with mackerel in the holds of their ships? Would the Minister not give a guarantee that all fishing by Dutch and other EEC trawlers will stop immediately until there is proper supervision, or will he guarantee compensation for the south-eastern inshore fishermen who have no alternative source of fishing or of earning their living available to them for the next six months?
The Deputy has raised a matter which arises on other questions.
I should like to reply to the main thrust of the Deputy's supplementary question which related to the by-catch operation of other EEC countries, particularly that of the Germans and Dutch. I propose to raise this in a very substantial way at next Monday's meeting of the Council of Ministers. I have already probed the ground in this area. I am hopeful there will be a result which will mean the abolition of any by-catch in regard to herring by any boat in the Irish Sea, in the Celtic Sea, so that there would be a total ban operating there, not alone as far as Irish fishermen are concerned, but also as far as outside fishermen are concerned, in other words, no herring caught in the Celtic Sea. That is my objective in the matter.
The Minister may be seeking a total ban and perhaps he is right in that; I am not certain. But is the Minister aware that herrings are being sold at £1.50 to £2 each in Germany? If the Minister does not get his way next week could he not arrange to have fishery protection officers on each Dutch or EEC boat that comes in here to fish? If they are playing the game and catching only 5 per cent, as they are allowed, they could have no objection.
There have been a number of boardings by Irish naval vessel officers of Dutch and German vessels—this is not part of the question—over the past number of months. In no case were they found to be exceeding the by-catch. But I am still satisfied—and I take it this is the sense of what the Deputy is saying—that the abolition of the by-catch provision is the only real way to deal with that and this we are doing.
But does the Minister understand that when his officers board these vessels——
I do understand.
——if the herrings are down in the hold of the ship covered with mackerel the Minister's officers have no way of finding out whether they have 5 per cent, 25 per cent or 40 per cent catch?
Yes, that is one of the reasons I share the Deputy's concern. We will be moving on Monday next to have the 5 per cent by-catch entirely removed, so that removes exactly the Deputy's qualms.
No, they could still have herrings under the mackerel.
For obvious reasons, it makes it much easier to enforce it. The by-catch does allow a way out. If there is no by-catch whatever, obviously it is much easier to enforce it. That is common sense.