asked the Minister for Education if it is Government policy that St. Patrick's College, Maynooth, should become an independent university.
16.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - St. Patrick's College, Maynooth.
15.
asked the Minister for Education if his attention has been drawn to the speech of Cardinal O'Fiach seeking independent university status for St. Patrick's College, Maynooth, if he intends to grant such a status and if he will make a statement on the matter.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take questions Nos. 15 and 16 together.
I have not been supplied with a copy of the speech to which reference is made but I have seen press reports in that regard.
As I stated in connection with the debate in Dáil Éireann on 31 May 1979 in relation to the Seventh Amendment of the Constitution Bill 1979, the proposed legislation dealing with university reorganisation will determine the future status of Maynooth College as well as of the other recognised colleges of the National University. I do not wish to add to that statement at present.
We accept that the Cardinal was seeking independent status for St. Patrick's College, Maynooth. Would the Minister accept that in relation to the advertisement placed by the Government prior to the referendum their intentions in relation to the status of Maynooth College were not made clear? Can I take it from that advertisement and a recent reference to the situation that the Minister favours a constituent college position in relation to St. Patrick's, Maynooth rather than an independent status for that college?
As the Deputy knows the press reports stated that the Cardinal, when addressing the graduates, said that he preferred the independent status. This view will strongly influence the legislation which will be introduced.
Will the Minister not agree that he has already publicly stated on at least one occasion that the colleges of the National University of Ireland are to be given independence? Could he explain to the House his inconsistency in making clear his intentions in relation to those institutions while refusing to make clear his policy in relation to the Maynooth institution?
As the Deputy knows Maynooth College is a recognised college of the National University of Ireland. It is not an equal case, for example, with the constituent colleges, University College, Dublin, University College, Cork and University College, Galway. Maynooth is a recognised college as is St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra, and Carysfort. The status of these colleges will also be determined in the legislation.
Could the Minister, now that he has seen which way the cat is jumping, let us know what his intentions are?
I watch cats very carefully when they jump but they do not necessarily influence my decisions.
Can I take it from the Minister's reply that there is still doubt about his intentions and the Government's to designate St. Patrick's College, Maynooth as an independent university?
There is no doubt. The whole matter is under very lively consideration as of now.
When can we expect a statement of his intentions from the Minister?
I hope to have the legislation ready in the very near future.
The very near future is a very relative term.
17.
asked the Minister for Education the safeguards, if any, that exists in relation to the control of the use of buildings erected for St. Patrick's College, Maynooth and paid for out of moneys voted by the Dáil.
In the discharge of their responsibilities under the Higher Education Authority Act, 1971, the Higher Education Authority take appropriate steps in this regard by way of agreement with the trustees of the college.
Is the Minister declining to tell us what steps have been taken by the Higher Education Authority?
I am not actually declining to tell the Deputy. I am simply saying that there is a responsibility on the Higher Education Authority and I am satisfied that they have discharged it.
Will the Minister tell us, as a matter of fact, if the Higher Education Authority have taken any steps in relation to this subject matter?
They have.
Can the Minister tell us what they did and what response they got from the trustees?
My note says that the Higher Education Authority are satisfied that their agreement is adequate to safeguard public moneys.
If I put down a question to the Minister in relation to the specific safeguards does he not accept that there is a duty on him to provide the House with details of those safeguards for the expenditure of public moneys?
The question as it is framed asked if the Minister is satisfied and are the HEA satisfied that public moneys are being safeguarded. I am informed by the Higher Education Authority that they are satisfied on the basis of an agreement with them about the use of buildings provided out of public funds.
Would the Minister not agree that question No. 17 asked him to state the safeguards, if any, that exist? All he has told us is that an agreement exists between the HEA and the college and he has refused to give us details of the agreement. Surely the agreement provides safeguards? Will the Minister not give them to the House?
I am telling the House that the HEA, in relation to their duty and responsibility, felt that they had to have a safeguard with regard to the use of buildings provided out of public moneys. The HEA have assured me that they are quite confident in the agreement they have with the college that the buildings provided out of public moneys are safeguarded for the purposes for which the money was allotted.
Is there any reason why this agreement should not be laid on the table of the House?
I could not say offhand.
We will have to go into it in more detail.