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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 6 Mar 1980

Vol. 318 No. 8

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - State Employment Pensions.

6.

asked the Minister for the Public Service the maximum amount of pension payable as a percentage of salary to the following grades: staff employee, craft employee and general worker in each of the following State employments; CIE, NET, Bord na Móna, Irish Steel Ltd., Bord Gais Éireann and if he considers that every effort should be made to improve on those pensions which are less than 66 per cent of final salary.

As the reply includes a tabular statement I propose with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle to circulate a copy with the Official Report.

Following is the reply:

The usual benefits payable at retirement in the civil service and public sector generally is a pension of one-eightieth of retirement salary for each year of pensionable service subject to a maximum of 40 years' service, that is, one-half retirement salary, in addition to a lump sum payment of three-eightieths of retirement salary for each year of pensionable service subject to a maximum of 40 years, that is, 1½ times retirement salary. In respect of those bodies where a retirement lump sum is not payable the pension is normally calculated in sixtieths thus yielding a maximum pension of 66 per cent after 40 years' pensionable service which is equivalent to the benefits outlined above.

The amount of retirement benefits to be paid to employees of semi-State bodies are primarily a matter for the particular body concerned but, in reaching a decision as to whether a particular pension scheme is acceptable, my Department would not normally object to benefits which are not in excess of those outlined in the foregoing paragraph.

The pension schemes of the five organisations in respect of which information is sought in the Deputy's question provide for the following retirement benefits:—

Name of Body

Maximum Pension

Maximum Gratuity

CIE

Salaried Officers & Clerks 40/80 ths Regular Wages Staff Calculated on a flat-rate basis in relation to retiring salary

Salaried Officers & Clerks 45/30 ths Regular Wages Staff Nil

NET

Staff—pre 1/4/1974 Members 40/60 ths Staff—post 1/4/1974 Members 40/80 ths Hourly paid staff 40/80 ths

Staff—pre 1/4/1974 Members Nil Staff—post 1/4/1974 Members 45/30 ths Hourly paid staff 45/30 ths

Bord na Móna

General Employees 40/80 ths Regular Works Employees 40/80 ths

General Employees 45/30 ths Regular Works Employees 45/30 ths

Irish Steel Limited

Staff Employees 40/60 ths Works Employees £9 per week

Staff Employees Nil Works Employees Nil

Bord Gáis Éireann

All Staff 40/80 ths

All Staff 120/80 ths

What are the relative figures for CIE?

I frequently point out that when a tabular statement is issued Deputies should not ask supplementary questions.

This is one way of avoiding answering questions. Why is there a distinction between different categories of employees? Does the Minister not consider that this multistatus is invidious to good industrial relations? In the circumstances, would he not consider that pensions of all employees should be based on the same scheme?

The amount of retirement benefit generally paid to employees in semi-State bodies is primarily a matter for the body concerned. In reaching a decision as to whether a particular pension scheme is acceptable, the Department would not object to benefits which are not in excess of those outlined in the tabular statement. I would appreciate it if the Deputy would accept what I am saying.

Would the Minister accept that the companies mentioned have the worst industrial relations in the country and that there could be a connection between the "them and us" atmosphere inculcated by this differentiation? Would he not therefore consider, in the interests of good industrial relations, introducing legislation, if necessary, to see there is a single status pension scheme in all semi-State bodies?

Question No. 7.

The Deputy made a statement rather than asked a question. If he reads the answer given in the tabular statement he will not have to ask these questions.

Is the Minister concerned with the industrial relations impact of this differentiation on different categories of employees? In his capacity as Minister of State at the Department of Labour, would the Minister look at the impact this has on our industrial relations and communicate with me when he has considered the matter?

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Have any discussions taken place between the Department of the Public Service and the Department of Social Welfare about the introduction of a pay-related pension scheme?

That is a completely different question.

The Minister cannot answer his own questions, therefore he should not try to answer anybody else's.

The Deputy would need to give notice of that question.

Will the Deputy repeat his question?

Are discussions taking place between the Department of the Public Service and the Department of Social Welfare about the introduction of a pay-related scheme?

That is a separate question.

It is directly related to this question.

It is not even remotely related.

The Deputy might look at the question on the Order Paper.

I do not have that information.

In view of the evasion of the Minister of State I intend, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to raise this matter on the adjournment.

I will communicate with the Deputy.

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