asked the Minister for Health the real expenditure increase or decrease in the over-all Government expenditure in his Department allowing for the expected over-all inflation rate of 18 per cent.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Department of Health Expenditure.
78.
Present indications are that, allowing for recent pay awards and so on, Exchequer expenditure on health in the present year will represent an increase in cash terms of 27 per cent on the out-turn for 1979. Because about 60 per cent of health expenditure is for pay and changes in rates of remuneration are not always directly related to the inflation rate as measured by the consumer price index, it is not practicable to adjust the figure for the percentage increase in cash terms to real terms by relating it to the expected inflation rate.
Surely it is possible for the Minister to take the anticipated expenditure in the Department and relate it to the outturn for last year, and to compare the difference in the two figures with a suggested inflation rate of 18 per cent. A child in the national school would be able to do that.
If the Deputy likes to take the increase in cash terms, which would be 27 per cent on the out-turn for 1979, it is simple. However, there are different factors which will incur different rates of increase. One cannot take it on an overall basis.
The House cannot accept that sort of answer. Deputy Browne's question asked for the real increase or decrease based on an inflation rate of 18 per cent. The Minister evaded the question in his reply. The question is quite simple: will the Department get more money this year in real terms than last year? The answer is no, but the Minister does not want to say it.
Deputy Browne suggested an overall inflation rate of 18 per cent. I have told the Deputy that in cash terms the increase is 27 per cent and if the Deputy likes to deduct the 18 per cent from the 27 per cent he will have the overall increase in real terms.
That is not the way to do sums.
Will the Minister agree that given the huge proportion of the Health Estimate which is accounted for by salaries, which have to be increased if he is not to make the service worse by driving people out of it, simply to subtract the 18 per cent from 27 per cent in cash terms is an inappropriate way to try to work out whether there has been an increase in real terms?
I made that point in the answer to the question. I referred to the large volume of health expenditure involved in pay and general changes in remuneration. The Deputy asked for the real increase or decrease in overall expenditure in the Department and I have given that figure.