asked the Minister for the Environment if he is aware of the serious depression in the house building industry; and if he will consider increasing the new housing grants from £1,000 to £4,000 to help the industry to recover.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - House Building.
24.
I am aware that, while a record number of houses was completed in 1980, there has been some decline in the level of activity in house-building in recent months. However, the continuing high level of investment in building societies, the big expansion in activities under the local authorities' house loans schemes and the greatly increased financial provision for housing in the Public Capital Programme for 1981 should ensure that house building will be maintained at a satisfactory level this year.
Regarding the final part of the question, I have no proposals at present for an increase in the new house grant of £1,000.
Would the Minister not agree that since the grant was introduced the average price of new houses has almost doubled and in those circumstances the grant needs to be brought at least into line with the rise in the cost of houses and made meaningful so as to assist young people in the purchase of their homes?
I know that the grant is meaningful in the assistance that it gives to a number of young people and this can be seen from the number of applications. So far as increasing it from £1,000 to £4,000 is concerned, this would mean an extra £28 million would be required.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Has the Minister any proposals to bring before the Government to increase these grants? Does he agree, as Deputy Boland said, that according to his official statistics the price of a house has increased from about £12,000 in 1976 to £29,000 now and that a substantial increase in these grants is badly needed?
As I said in my reply, regarding the final part of the question I have no proposals for an increase in the new house grant of £1,000. But it is important to put on the record that the provision for 1981 shows an increase of 34 per cent in real terms compared with 1977, the last year of the Coalition. Expenditure dropped by 57 per cent in real terms between 1975 and 1977.
(Cavan-Monaghan): The cost of a house has more than doubled.
In view of the fact that the grants for houses between the Department and the local authorities was £900 before the £1,000 grant was introduced would the Minister explain how £100 succeeded in getting the extra houses built as he claims? With regard to his reply to the first supplementary, is the Minister aware that a local newspaper last week published the information that Meath County Council want an extra £6 million to fulfil the promises of SDA loans? Is that the pattern in the rest of the country?
The Deputy can be sure it is.
(Interruptions.)
This year's allocation for housing reached an unprecedented figure of £242 million.
It is not unprecedented in view of the drop in the——
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Quinn.
How is it some people cannot get their loans? Why not?
There is no money.
(Interruptions.)
I can prove it.
I intended to say that not only was the figure quoted unprecedented but it was also unrealistic, because the money is not there. The Minister said he does not have any proposals at present to increase the loans. Would it be reasonable to take from this that the Government and the Minister have learned from the disastrous inflationary impact which the last £1,000 grant has had, and that they are looking at other ways, as suggested in NESC report No. 51, to help first time buyers?
I take it from what the Deputy said that he is not in favour of increasing the new house grants?
No. Perhaps the Minister is not long enough in the job to understand exactly what I said.
I understand all right.
(Interruptions.)
We understood what the Minister said and what he did. There was a downward trend in house building this year——
The house building confederation—
When the Construction Industry Federation have elected Members in this House they will be able to answer for themselves. Since the Minister clearly indicated in his reply that he has no proposals at present to increase the grant, does this indicate that the Government recognise that when the grant was introduced it was inflationary and damaged the prospects of many first time buyers?
I do not accept that. It was and is a tremendous incentive to young couples.
Could I approach this matter from a different angle? While accepting that any grant is of benefit to the person receiving it——
Please ask a supplementary.
Did the Minister say that in three successive years the numbers applying for this grant were 30,000 odd, 30,000 odd and 20,000 odd?
The £1,000 new house grant was introduced in July 1977 as part of the Government's election manifesto. From its introduction to the end of 1980, the number of applications received and the number of grants approved and paid were 39,768, 33,207 and 22,847.
The grant total is within spitting distance of 100,000 applicants. Is that right?
Yes.
This means that the grand total the Government would have paid out under that scheme——
The Deputy must ask a question. This is not a debate.
I am asking the Minister to comment on a special aspect of this matter. Would I be right in saying that, assuming all the applicants qualify, the State will have paid out, apart from the cost of administering the scheme, nearly £100 million by the time they are finished? Let us not quibble about £10 million here or there. Is it not within a short distance of that figure?
I have not got the exact figures.
Could I ask the Minister——
I am calling Deputy Harte.
Does the Minister seriously consider that the programme of building more houses has been affected to the extent of £100 million on election handouts——
I will move on to the next question. Deputy Harte a final supplementary.
(Interruptions.)
Another Deputy is asking me to increase the grant to £4,000.
That was a pay back for the builder friends.
The Government have spent £100 million and there is not one house to show for it, because I have no doubt it did not benefit anybody who would not otherwise have bought or built a house. Are we going to introduce phoney budgets now?
Accepting that grant aid is an incentive to young people to build houses, would the Minister not accept the logic of his own position? Taking Donegal as an example, the Department of the Gaeltacht give grants of £2,500 without any restrictions to help people build their houses, and some people outside the Gaeltacht areas do not qualify. In view of the fact that the attitude of people in the Gaeltacht to building their own houses——
Ask a question, please, Deputy.
Does the Minister not see that, if this was applied to all Donegal, the western region or the whole of the Republic, it would provide an incentive for people to build their own houses?
I find it very difficult to reply to Fine Gael on this. One Deputy raises one line and another Deputy goes in another direction.
The Minister seems to find it difficult even to reply.
I have no proposals at present for an increase in the grant.
Does the Minister accept the logic of my question?
Question No. 25 is for written reply.