I move that the Second Stage be taken now.
Social Welfare Bill, 1982: Order for Second Stage.
Bill entitled an Act to amend and extend the Social Welfare (Consolidation) Act, 1981.
I wish to join with the objection raised earlier by Deputy Shatter in relation to this matter. It is very unfair to the House to circulate a Bill and to ask that all Stages be taken in one day. Business could have been arranged so that this Bill could just as well be taken tomorrow. I understand it is intended that the Bill be taken in the Seanad on Friday but this Bill could have been ordered for tomorrow and thus give the Opposition an opportunity to study its contents.
It was agreed between the Whips.
Mr. Bruton
Agreements between the Whips are not the concern of the Chair.
Any agreement between the Whips is subject to the agreement of the House. I am raising a matter on which I have spoken before, namely, that some minimum courtesy should be shown to the Opposition in the circulation of Bills prior to their being discussed.
It has already been agreed by the House that all Stages be taken today.
I should like to ask a question of the Minister for Social Welfare.
It is an order of the House that all Stages be taken now.
I wish to ask the Minister for Social Welfare why it is not possible to have Committee Stages tomorrow. Will he explain to the House the precise urgency of the matter so that we may understand why all Stages have to be taken today which will preclude the moving of amenements, as Deputy Shatter pointed put.
This is completely out of order. If this House is to do its business agreements made between the Whips should be adhered to, otherwise there is no possibility of doing our business. In this particular matter, not alone has it been made an agreement of the Whips but it is now an order of this House. I suggest it is not in order to raise it at this stage.
We cannot have something sacrosanct now that was something of no consequence ten minutes earlier. Apparently there was an agreement between the Whips that the Committee of Selection should have been chosen today and placed on the Order Paper but that was not done. That was rejected at the outset of public business as something of little consequence, but now we are told that agreements between the Whips are sacrosanct and cannot be questioned. When the Taoiseach was Minister for Social Welfare I questioned this peremptory throwing in of legislation with a demand that it be handled and disposed of in one day. I question this now and I do so in the interests of every Member.
When the Taoiseach announces the Order of Business it becomes an order of the House. He announces the Order of Business as a result of agreement between the Whips. If the Whips did not like the arrangement they should not have agreed. When the Taoiseach announces business it becomes an order of the House and we can do nothing about that now.
I asked the Minister for Social Welfare the reason for the urgency in taking all Stages today but the Taoiseach intervened to deal with another matter. I ask again that the Minister for Social Welfare answer my question.
I do not think the question is really in order at this stage because we could have a debate on the entire original question. The Deputy will be aware of the great urgency in passing the Bill at this stage and of getting it to the Seanad if the legislation is to be implemented by 31 March. This arises because of the unusual circumstances in which we find ourselves this year. Deputies opposite are well aware of that. We had a budget that failed in the House and we had an election following it. We are now practically up to 31 March and we must get this Bill through if the beneficiaries are to receive their benefits from 31 March. That is the reason the Whips agreed to take all Stages today.
I am not going to be given a lecture regarding orders of the House from anybody here who attempts to bulldoze or bully through public business. We are now dealing with item No. 1 on the Order Paper — Order for Second Stage. The Minister for Social Welfare is attempting to move that all Stages be taken today. Irrespective of what was read out at the commencement of public business that still has to be done.
That is not true.
I am raising an objection on behalf of Members of the House and I am perfectly entitled to do that. I would remind the Chair that when he was on these benches he regularly raised the same objection.
I agree with Deputy Boland but, unfortunately, there was agreement between the Whips. When the Taoiseach announces the Order of Business it becomes an order of the House and we cannot do anything about that now. I suggest that on future occasions something might be done but in this instance there was agreement between the Whips.
May I remind the Chair that agreements between the Whips have no standing in Standing Orders?
As we saw earlier.
The Ceann Comhairle was pleading agreement between the Whips but that matter is irrelevant and is of no concern to him. He should not be cognisant of agreements between the Whips. He is above this inter-party discussion, I should have thought. We are perfectly within our rights in asking for an explanation. The Minister for Social Welfare said this matter is urgent and that the legislation must be put through before 31 March. That is certainly the case but there is no reason why Committee Stage should not be taken tomorrow thus allowing people, having reflected on Second Stage, the possibility — and it may be no more than that — of putting down written amendments. Now there is only the possibility of oral amendments to the Bill in Committee because Committee Stage will follow immediately on Second Stage.
As the Chair is aware, that is a very unsatisfactory method of amending any legislation. I believe this argeement should not have been proposed and it should not become the normal practice in this House. I believe it is correct that Members should raise the matter in this manner and no Deputy on either side, least of all the Chair, should seek to deny us the opportunity of ventilating this matter.
When the Taoiseach announced it I naturally assumed that it had been agreed between the Whips. I had no say in the matter but I assumed that there was agreement between the Whips and as a result of that the Taoiseach announced the Order of Business which then became an order of the House.
That is fine in relation to item No. 1. That item has still to be disposed of. The Minister for Social Welfare is moving that the remaining Stages be taken today.
The House can vote on it now.
We do not need political advice from the Chair.
We are entitled to speak on it but we do not need the Chair or the Taoiseach to tell us that this matter has been disposed of and that it is not within our compass to speak on it.
I am endeavouring to explain that the normal procedure here is that the Whips agree on the Order of Business. If it is now to be the position that any individual Member of the Opposition Party can disown an agreement made by the Whip of that Opposition Party then we are into a very serious situation.
As on the Committee of Selection.
We are not into normal business any more.
Apart from the agreement of the Whips, the thing has now moved beyond that, in that it is now an order of the House. I submit, on a point of order, that it is not in order for it to be challenged at this stage.
Of course it is in order that item No. 1 be taken now.
That all stages be taken now.
The Order of the House was that all stages be taken.
(Cavan-Monaghan): But we will take them each stage at a time.
That is understood.
This is a First Stage debate.
It was agreed that the order for Second Stage be followed immediately by the Second and Committee Stages.
But there has to be a First Stage to be followed by a Second Stage.
We are now at the First Stage and discussing it. We are entitled to do so and we do not require the Taoiseach or anybody else to tell us that we are not entitled to do so or to tell us what is normal or what is not normal. I spent three normal years shadowing the present Taoiseach when he was Minister for Health and Social Welfare with the present occupant of the Chair who was also a shadow spokesman. We are not into normal business any more and some of the decisions taken and things that have happened mean that this is not a normal Dáil.
The question before the House is: "That the Second Stage be taken now". Is that agreed?
Did the Minister move that question?
I moved it before the Deputy spoke.
Is the question agreed?
Agreed with reluctance.
Agreed to take Second Stage now.