asked the Minister for Health if he will authorise the use of existing plans from another hospital as a basis for the proposed new hospital for Tallaght, County Dublin.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Tallaght (Dublin) Hospital.
8.
The Tallaght Hospital Board, which has the responsibility for planning, building and equipping a new general hospital at Tallaght, are now preparing the planning brief for the project. This is a necessary first step in the planning process which must be completed before decisions can be taken regarding the actual design of the hospital.
With regard to the possibility of utilising plans of another hospital as a basis for the Tallaght Hospital, this is a matter of major importance which would have to be considered in the light of the specific and special requirements of the new hospital when determined.
Is it the Minister's policy to save time by using the existing plans of another hospital and, if so, will he so direct the board?
The proposal is that the plans which were used for the Cork Regional Hospital and later for Beaumont Hospital would now for a third time be used for the Tallaght hospital, but before that decision is made it is important to consider the changes that have taken place in the meantime. There will be specific requirements in the Tallaght area which will differ from Cork and Beaumont to be taken into consideration. I agree with the Deputy that this should not be used as a means of delaying the establishment of a hospital, but I am sure the Deputy will agree that a lot of time has elapsed since the plans for the Cork Regional Hospital were drawn up and a great deal has changed since.
Does the Minister agree that what he has just stated is at variance with what he has said in the House on 4 November 1981, as reported at column 1190 of the Official Report? He suggested, with Deputy Haughey, that the sensible thing to do to save time in providing a hospital for Tallaght was to use the plans of the Beaumont Hospital. Deputy Haughey is reported as saying that the hospital could be provided within one year. Will the Minister agree that what he has said today is at variance with the view he held last November?
That was a reference to the completion of the planning phase rather than the completion of the hospital. As far as the basic plan being suitable for the Tallaght hospital is concerned, I would not have any objection to making use of the Beaumont plan. But in terms of planning the board will have to consider the changes that have taken place since those plans were prepared and the special requirements needed in that area.
My question related directly to plans and Deputy Haughey, as he was then——
The Deputy is not permitted to quote from documents at Question Time.
Deputy Haughey made the point of drawing a distinction between what he called the policy of the Coalition Administration and a Fianna Fáil Administration and said a Fianna Fáil Administration would be prepared to use existing plans thereby cutting the time schedule for the planning of the Tallaght hospital from five years. He indicated that the work could be done within one year. Will the Minister direct the hospital board to use the plans for the Beaumont Hospital so that — to quote Deputy Haughey's words — the 70,000 people of Tallaght who do not have any facilities at present will have their hospital within one year?
That was before the election.
The Deputy might explain that he is talking about having the plans within one year, rather than having the hospital available within one year. One could not even equip the hospital within one year.
The time for the plans to be prepared?
If the Deputy has the interests of the people of Tallaght at heart he should consider primarily the interests of the people in that area. There is here an opportunity to have a new hospital, based on the knowledge which is being obtained during the building of the other two hospitals, taking into account the changes which have taken place in between and with the additional provisions which are being made in the Tallaght hospital which would not be made in the other hospitals. It would not make sense not to consider these before deciding on the plans for Tallaght. We are now in the process of doing this. I will certainly discuss with the board, as a matter of urgency, the question of completing the planning phase as quickly as possible. I understand they are very anxious to do this.
It was your party's own statement.
That was a reference to a suggestion made at the time that it would take ten years to get through some phase. The Deputy has the document before him, I have not. The Taoiseach, then Deputy Haughey, said that it did not need that amount of time, that one could use other plans and do various things that would accelerate the time scale. I have no intention of using the planning phase to delay the hospital. I regard the building of this hospital as of urgent priority and have so treated it from the outset.
How long does the Minister say that it will take?
One last supplementary question, please.
How long will it take to provide the people of Tallaght with a hospital?
Obviously, that would depend on when the plans are available and the length of time it takes from then on. That is not a particularly easy question to answer until one has the plans on the table and the contracts committed. We are talking about having it certainly within a reasonable number of years and not talking about any extended period.
The previous Minister gave a forecast. Would the Minister not given one?
The previous Minister for Health?
Yes.
I do not know of that forecast.
The previous Minister's forecast was that it would take five years.
In that event, I would in no way see the plans taking anything like that long.
How long?
My only difference with the Deputy would be that I would want to have better plans. There is a saying in management and marketing that, if you do not know where you are going, any road will take you there. The most important step is to get the road right. All those involved with the Tallaght hospital, the board and those concerned, would be very anxious that the first step would be right. Regarding the plans being available, I do not see why they should not be available within the year. I can recall now that the previous Minister suggested five years for the plans to be available. We see a much shorter time scale.
It appears that what plans one suggests depend on what side of the House one is sitting on.
Not really, Deputy. I was the one who set up the board in the first instance and put it on the priority list. It is quite unfair of the Deputy to suggest that I would treat it other than seriously. I have said that I will give it the utmost possible consideration and we have put it well on that road by this stage.
May we go to Question No. 9?